What am I missing? Which manufactuer offers a 500-HP offering today? GM? Dodge? You do realize there is a Mustang you can buy through your Ford dealer that produces 500-HP, not sometime next year, but now? In terms of performance, Ford already offers more horsepower than can be had in a Challenger or new Camaro.

 

And it's only $5000 more than the Dodge's top dogg Challenger SRT-8.

 

$5K are you sure? I checked Emunds, MSRP for the SRT8 is over $39K, the MSRP for the GT500 was a shade over $41, that works out to be 3K, not 5K--and if you want to look at it that way. The SRT8 is $13,000 over the cost of a Mustang GT. So for an additional $13K you buy 125-HP and gain 600-lbs. Good deal?

 

There is far more to hp and fuel economy than simply throwing tech at an engine. Issues like cylinder head design, and bore/stroke relationship matter much more than do items like IVVT. The reality of the situation is that the most prominent insiders are all in agreement by this point on hp ratings, and some of those insiders are directly involved with Ford powertrain development. The fact that Ford hasn't previously produced an engine of this type which makes that much hp before simply isn't reason enough to discount the info we have. Throw in the universally conservative pre-production hp estimates for all recent Ford engines and I see no reason to look a this one differently.

You were closer to official numbers than I was, but at 3860lb this thing is no featherweight and, if the G8 is any indication, you wont actually be able to buy a V8-powered Camaro which weighs 3860lb. Ultimately, that means my criticisms still stand. This is a 3900lb car that is going to weigh in at 4000lb or more fully loaded. That is lighter than the G8, but only by about a hundred pounds or so.

Ford my well bump the price at least a little, but they don't have to and I think they would be wise not to. When introduced Ford claimed that the S197 was noticeably less expensive to produce than was the SN95 model it replaced. Take into consideration the numerous price bumps the S197 received during it's freshman year on the market, an adjustment the huge demand for the car made a reality, and Ford's own admission that the Mustang is a very attractive car for them when looked upon from a profit point of view and I wouldn't be surprised if they could even drop the price of the new model and still make a nice chunk of change.

That said I don't expect a price drop, but I wouldn't be surprised if they held the line.

heavy ain't the word. And that fuel economy rating for the V8 model is incredibly bad, particularly when you take into consideration the fact that Ford is going to significantly improve Mustang fuel economy in the near future for both V8 and V6 models. The more I hear about the new Camaro the less impressed I am with it. Frankly, it's a Chevy Challenger, and given the choice between those two heavyweights I would much rather have the Challenger.

 

The thing is what about looks? HP is one thing but to me the Camaro looks more like a sports car than a muscle car. The Mustang and Challenger at least look like the muscle cars of past.
I just hope Ford does not take the road that Chevy did with the Camaro. I would not want it to look like a refined sports car. If it came to looks i would take the Current Mustang/GT500 and Challenger over the Camaro.

 

if were going to keep the 4.6 we should shave 600 lbs but if were going to have the 5.0 we should not gain any at all...that is the key to good mpg and hp..WEIGHT

 

Ford's new 3 year/36000 mile bumper to bumper warrenty**on 2010 Mustang

**Doors shall not be covered. Having your doors blown off by the challenger and camaro is not considered a factory defect.

 

I'm pretty sure. Local Dodge dealership had a SRT-8 for $42K (before mark ups). The Ford dealer had a GT-500 for $47K (no mark up).

 

$42K, before markup? That's not too bad if you could get it without the f*g ADM--I have heard that some of the loaded Charger SRT8's were stickered right at $44.

 

Yes you can get the GT500. But it's got the supercharger and I think most folks really would prefer the NA HP- there is just something about the raw HP that comes from NA and not from a SC or turbo.

The Challenger RT is in line with the Mustang GT- price wise. But that's it. The Challenger would seem to offer so much more- handling, power, comfort.

Some of you guys seem way too sensitive. Speak up and demand MORE from Ford!! Don't make excuses for them!

 

uh the mustang GT will out handle an R/T challenger.
and the mustang GT will smoke an R/T challenger,charger in the 1/4 too.....and thats a fact.

 

So if a car makes 500-hp it really doesn't count, because it's forced induction? Tell it to the GT-R crowd, or the ZR1 fans. (I don't think your argument will fly.)

Yeah it offers more--600 lbs more. If you like the looks of the Challenger better, so be it. Different strokes for different folks. I like the looks of the Challenger myself. But somehow I just don't see the additional 75-hp making up for the weight differential. And somehow I just can't get past the concept of a 2-ton, sports coupe.

And actually, I'd like to demand less of Ford--less weight. I traded my 2000 V6 Mustang for a MazdaSpeed 3. It's a blast to drive, (look out for the torque-steer). I like my 2006 Mustang GT. But I could settle for a better balanced machine. A 3,000-3,200-lb twin-turbo V6 with a close to 50/50 weight distribution with 340-hp sounds like something I could live with.

 

Would you mind going into more detail, because I really don't understand how the Camaro looks more like a refined sports car, than a muscle car. IMO the Camaro is a dead ringer for an updated 69 version, or at least the roofline does anyhow. However I really don't care for the Corvette style rear end, nor the Cadillac inspired hips !

 

Saleen's 5.0 doesn't make close to 400hp. There are quite a few dynos that prove this.

 

you should be comparing the challenger RT to the '10 Mustang GT, not the current one

 

Well I would- but we have no info on the '10 mustang gt.
As I have said- Ford has competition now and they need to step up or get left behind.
So we will see how they respond with the '10 offering.

 

Quit being an apologist for Ford.
From all the reviews I have read on the Challenger it offers better ride, comfort and handling than the mustang.
Ford needs to make improvements. That live axle HAS to go. Or at least they need to alter it. Perhaps a Watt's Link, or some other refinement that keeps the rear wheels from hopping and bouncing all over the road.

As for HP- I think most folks would prefer NA. Otherwise you may as well just make v6's with turbo's or SC in them- both would produce more HP than the current GT. Would you like that? Would you like a v6 in your stang?

So quit giving Ford a free pass and demand more- unless your happy being outgunned on the street by Dodge and Chevy.

 

Ford needs to step it up. No excuses. Yes, there is always the GT500, but how many people can afford one?
Never mind about the 425hp Challenger SRT or the Camaro SS with 422hp, the biggest thing sticking out at me right now is a 375hp Challenger RT with IRS starting at $30k & a Chevy Camaro V6, with 300hp & IRS.

I am a Ford loyalist & Mustang fanatic, but I want Ford to give me the same things that GM & Dodge offer - at the same price! Or I am going to buy something else!

 

To respond in with the same degree of understanding and thoughtfulness--quit being a shill for Dodge.

Do you read before you post? I posted a reply to your comment about Ford lacking in HP in terms of the Challenger and Camaro--the point being neither of those vehicles from their respective mfg.s offer a 500-HP version (yet). Ford does offer a 500-HP Mustang--which you chose to ignore (still).

You ask if I'd like a turbo V6 in my Mustang--if you had bothered to read my previous post you'll see I already answered that question--my daily driver is a MS3 (turbo 4) and that I'd be happy with 340-HP twin-turbo V6 in a Mustang. As for what most folks prefer, I'll not presume to speak for everyone, just myself, thank you.

I also still fail to see how the 2009 top-of-the-line Camaro, or the 2009 top-of-the-line Challenger outguns a GT500. Maybe you have some performance specs to back that up? The only head-to-head between the SRT8 Challenger and the GT500 that I know of is the one that appeared in Motor Trend and in the performance arena, the GT500 easily beat the SRT8 Challenger. It wasn't even much of a contest. The new Camaro won't even hit the streets until next March--and any head-to-head comparison will have to wait.

If you like the Challenger better than a Mustang that's fine. If you like N/A better than forced induction that's your perogative. But don't presume to define your likes and preferences as the standard to which everyone must conform.

 

I think you hit a good point on the Camaro V6 offering. In the past the Mustang had a much better 6 offering than the F-bodies. This time around it looks like Camaro has a great entry level package. It's time Ford dropped the 4.0 and put the D35 in the Mustang.