Must be worth the ADM to someone or the dealers would quickly remove them.

 

I doubt whether the name on the car (Cobra or Shelby, or GT500) would have any affect on pricing or sales figures. The car is the car regardless of the name.

 

I don't know about that.
I think Ford cashed in on the Shelby name and the first bunch who bought at markup... probably don't even drive them. Hoping to cash in on the 'value' of them when the old man croaks.

I really don't think they would have had as many markups and for as long, if the car was a SVT Cobra. The name is taking advantage of the boomers (not me, snicker) that had dreams of owning a shelby in the 60s/early 70s.

 

I think regardless of name that ANY performance car that has any hype behind it will suffer from getting ADM's slapped on them. The problem lies in the buyers....those with the "I gotta have the first one" mentality.....because if nobody paid the ADM's then there would be no justification for the dealers to add them to the sticker price.

Name does play a factor to a point and I agree the Shelby name does have a certain draw....however the market is getting saturated. I had heard that the GT500 wasn't even considered a "real" Shelby as in listed in the registry because it was Ford built...but the Shelby GT's ARE considered real Shelby's because they are passed through Shelby's facility. Not sure how true that is as I haven't paid any attention but if it is the case then there are a lot of speculators that are going to be disappointed down the road.

 

Yeah, GT350 and GT500 mean something to us old farts. We remember them from when we were growing up. It probably helps drive some sales too. SVT might be a better tuner but since the average car buyer has no clue what SVT is/was, it didn't help much in the way of pushing sales. The Shelby name certainly has a decent cache associated with it (deservedly or not), and you could make a decent argument about whether it helps drive sales on the GT500 but then you have to also look at the Shelby GT which offers a decent counterpoint. Bottom line, I think the vast majority of people buying these cars are looking for a hot Mustang.
Another point I have to make is how silly it is to argue Mustang vs. Corvette. Two totally different cars. Ford showed it could beat a 'Vette (ANY 'Vette) by producing the Ford GT. End of story.

 

Absolutely.....I have owned a LOT of Mustangs including a few '90 models and I currently own a '90 Corvette.....While you can't compare the cars, IF I were to compare them the Mustang wins hands down...the Corvette is like driving a covered wagon! It's noisy, rough and getting into it is like getting into a coffin. But yes...both cars are like comparing apples and Kiwis.....made for different markets and different purposes.

As far as Tuner names....Long before SVT there was SVO....a car that was a sales failure as well...primarily because it was way before it's time and the marketing was poor...they were trying to market a Ford Mustang to the BMW consumer and it failed....partially because a Ford salesman couldn't sell to a BMW customer and because you just couldn't get a BMW customer to set foot into a Ford dealer. Then you had the Mustang GT....American mentality is "V8"...nobody wanted a 4 cylinder Mustang....despite the fact that it made a hair more HP than the V8...the turbo scared people back then.

Ofcourse, SVO owners are laughing now......you can make 3-400HP out of that powerplant and still get good economy if you keep you foot out of it. My SVO is HIGHLY modified including a 2.59 stroker and I averaged 28mpg on a trip to Florida and back.

SVT was a continuation of the failed SVO program and I was around and on the lots during the entire run....NEVER did I hear anyone complain about the name or say "I wish it was a Shelby"....the '93 Cobra was highly sought after and still is today. The Lightnings become tough to sell in the end and I remember them sitting on the lots with discounts and rebates(I should have bought one).

SAAC built there version of a Shelby Mustang on the FOX platform....that car was a complete failure and disappeared quickly....so the tie in with Shelby and the Shelby club offering the car did not help that car at all.

Roush does not have the same notoriety that Shelby has and there are more of his cars on the road today than Shelbys.....marketing, they have done a good job marketing the Roush Mustangs and getting them out there....and he has been king of makind the limited run cars and forcing consumers to jump on one because it's 1 of whatever. He'll just move on and change something and make a new edition...pump up the marketing and viola....more sales. If nothing else Roush has done a bang up job business wise of getting people to buy his cars.

Regardless of the name though....primarily the car will sell itself based on it's performance and pricing. If there is media or consumer hype then that will help even more. Sometimes a name like Shelby will spur sales but I think in reality that number is fairly low if you look at the big picture.

 

Just to add to that.
I think it's a double whammy.. the SVT Cobra had ADMs (heck even the Mustang GT did) for the first little while.

So you get the 'gotta haves' + 'old farts that want shelby'=longer demand
So I still think that at first if it was called a Cobra, it would still have that hype/gotta have factor....
... but maybe they wouldn't have lasted as long.

 

Now if only Ford could make the 2010 without all the **** rattles in the dash. Just add that to another reason I might go with the Vette. Simply put Ford just doesn't build them as good. Ya, ya ya, this is my 4th mustang and I own a GM product as well. Build quality is a lot better on the GM and I paid over $10,000.00 more for my mustang than the GM. I hope that Ford smartens up but I doubt they will.

 

I'm just the opposite! One of my remaining large problems with the Vette is build quality and overall comfort. I've driven a C6 on a few ocassions and have always come away surprised it doesn't catch more flack than it does. The steering is terrible, I mean genuinely terrible. The interior looks like something out of a last gen Pontiac Grand Am sans the Poncho's extraneous curves. The seats are even worse than the steering which is amazing given how bad the steering is. And on any kind of bump, particularly speed bumps, or other transition or incline the thing groans and creeks like it's got arthritis. The ride, while not terrible, isn't great either. (the ride is the one thing that reminds me of older German cars....it's fine until the bumps become significant and then it threatens to shake your fillings out)

That said, they look really good and go **** fast. For me the really unfortunate thing here is that GM could simply rehash the steering setup, give it a worthwhile interior that doesn't require checking 10k in options, call up Recaro for a decent set of seats, and address some minor chassis issues and have a potentially world beating car. Instead they take the already ridiculously fast Z06 which magnifies some of the above problems and spend more than enough money to accomplish the above listed improvements making an already fast enough car even faster and call it the ZR1. I honestly don't get it.

If people want to know why the Vette still can't match the prestige or mystique of the 911 I'll give it to you in a nutshell. The 911 is primarily about driving and being very good at it, the Vette is primarily about bragging rights and bravado.....and every time you step into either car this is made obvious nearly instantaneously.

Even more, if we are going to compare GM to Ford, while the Mustang suffers from some of the same issues I cite for the Vette above the reality is that the Mustang is far more comfortable to live with, has better steering than the Vette (unforgivable IMO), and even the GT has better seats than the Vette with the GT500's units blowing the Vette's seats away ( I genuinely don't understand how the seat issue is so difficult for GM to address here)

I'm admittedly more of a GT guy than sports car type when it comes to a daily ride. But, if I were going to pass up the Mustang for a sports car I would go past my local Chevy lot and straight to the closest Porsche peddler.

 

I have hated mustang seats for three and a half decades. The mustang seats would be great in a lincoln or a fusion, but give me the hard, snug seats from the vette any day over the 8" tall cusion extrodinaire that we have been cursed with in the stang. The current is better then the SN95 but still has no place in a performance car. Heck I would rather have the seats out of the Neon SRT4. just weighing in.

 

Your opinion is subjective. People might see the GT500 steering as vague and the dynamics poor. The European magazine's hated the GT500, for example. Purchase what feels the best to you. I've driven a few C6's and the steering isn't that bad. Have you driven an 08? Have you driven a C6 with the magnetic shocks? GM worked on the steering feel/response for the 2008 MY.

I will give you that the seats in the C6 are total junk. Hopefully GM will offer a Recaro option like the CTS-V!

As for a 911 & Vette, the Porsche is almost DOUBLE the cost. I'd look at the new M3 as a stop gap between the two.

 

Again I disagree. I'm not nuts about the standard Mustang units you'll find in a Mustang GT, but they aren't any worse than Vette units in any respect and, in my short experience, aren't as uncomfortable. That said I can't imagine standard Mustang seats in any Lincoln, they barely pass muster in the Mustang. The GT500's units are better than the Vette units in every imaginable respect. (never experienced those seats in a GT500, but I have been in a MS6 and, for those who may be interested, they are the same seats used in the GT500 sans covering/appearance)

Also, I wouldn't refer to the seats in a Vette as snug by any stretch of the imagination. In fact one of my issues with the Vette's seats is that they are rather flat and largely uncomfortable. Granted they look like they have phenomenal bolster, but in my experience it's all show and my guess would be that those bolsters have more to do with cleverly shaped excess foam than the actual design of the seat. If they were a firm, snug seat in the same spirit as those Acura used in the NSX I would be all for it...but nothing could be further from reality.

Truth be told I am always amazed at folks who actually like Vette seats. Each to their own I suppose, but I would guess that the few BMW and Porsche enthusiasts who give the Vette a chance are turned off the second their butt hits the leather. The seats just lend the entire car a cheap feel IMO.

Of course my opinion is subjective, as are everybody's.

The last C6 I drove had the Z51 package so no, it didn't have magnetic ride control. I've never driven a C6.5 but, while I have no doubt steering has been improved upon (frankly it wouldn't be that hard to do...nowhere to go but up here guys) I would be extremely surprised if it has reached a level I would consider good because it was so amazingly bad in the older C6 and the changes to the C6.5 are merely evolutionary.

To be honest if the other issues were addressed I would be willing to overlook the steering issue somewhat, particularly since it is likely a side effect of the leaf spring IFS GM has used for decades on the Vette. But the seats are impossible to forgive, particularly since they are an entirely outsourced item which would be simple to replace. And yes, I could replace the seats myself, but then I would be missing a huge safety feature in side airbags (important to me for the sake of my fiance) and that still wouldn't address the issue of the terrible interior surroundings which would cost me another 10k to fix by way of options packages! And even then the upgraded Vette threads are merely decent.

Yes, even more it's worth twice as much as the Vette. I would actually take a Cayman over the Vette and like the 911 I would still be spending more than Vette money, if not twixe as much, for the S model I would no doubt want. The M3 is certainly a worthy consideration in it's own right.

 

Back to the topic at hand, that rear valence looks interesting. I can't wait to see it.

 

That also looks like quite the ducktail under that camo. As others have mused i wonder if it's actually the effect of the ducktail itself or more padding added to camo the real look?

 

I think its the ducktail.

I think the rear will have the same ducktail found on the Lotus Elise: http://robson.m3rlin.org/cars/wp-con...s_elise_01.jpg

 

Sorry to bring this back on topic but here goes

I notice your quote got kinda lost in the fracas, but I had the very same thought when I looked at those photos. The blown up steering wheel inset is kinda blurry, but I don't see even a hint of SHELBY or GT500 on it. May be a loss of resolution or a simple styling change but it makes you wonder why it's not there.

And for all you SVT and GT500 haters I would tell you to kiss my butt if I thought you could catch it. My GT500 ROCKS! I have never ridden in, much less owned a car that generates the kind of enthusiasm and attention this one does. Thank God I finally installed my hood struts, I was getting carpal tunnel from raising that stupid prop bar every time someone asked me to pop the hood. Now if I could just get all the little Honda's with fartcan mufflers to stop trying to race me I'd be allright. I haven't found a vette or a porsche yet that even wants to try. And the guy with the early model viper from the other day is probably searching the web right now for upgrades, what he needs is driving lessons though.

 

Shelby=$helby, pure and simple, what's the greedy old man done for the car, besides lending his ?name to it. Ever hear of his financial shenenigans and suing of SAAC club and his "charity work" while donating ~1-2% of the gross income....despicable, dirty greedy old man. I say long live SVT and Coletti

 

More GT500 spyshots. You can really see the protuding nose on some of these shots.

http://jalopnik.com/photogallery/she...e=thumb800x800

 

I think before you condemn Shelby that you need to really read the facts regarding the lawsuit with SAAC.....Kopec and Eber of SAAC are no angels and Shelby is well within his rights to sue them. Among the many things they are accused of they didn't pay the ONE DOLLAR a year licensing fee for something like 9 years! and they sold off some of Shelby's paperwork that they did not have the right to do so (I know this to be true for a fact because I have some I purchased that made it's way out of SAAC years ago, of course at the time I didn't think anything about it but with this new information I can put 2 and 2 together ). Kopec even states in the 1997 Shelby Registry (I have a copy) that the paperwork was on loan to SAAC and was to be returned upon Shelby's request....now that he is requesting it they refuse.....?!?

There is a lot of misinformation being spread and people playing "victim" on the SAAC side of things when the reality is that they are in the wrong......but it's really easy to just jump on the bandwagon and blame Shelby it seems.

But this isn't about Shelby Vs. SVT/Coletti. They are completely seperate.....but as far as John Coletti....I've met and spent some time talking with John (We were both Celebrity Judges at the Carlisle Ford Nationals in 2000) and found him to be most admirable...a TRUE car enthusiast and a real genuine man willing to sit back and talk cars just because he loves the subject. John Colletti is an icon on his own and without him Mustang and Ford performance history would be far less exciting over the past 15 years.

 

If your idea of quality seats stem from a sedan then I understand you, but a sports coupe should hold you still, let you feel the road. If I wanted a nice comfy ride I'd buy the Mazda or Lincoln. The mustang seats are way too thick, have way too little bolster and do nothing for the driving experience. I conceed that I have not sat in a GT500 so I cannot comment on them, but the seats in the '00 Cobra R were what a seat should be. The vette seats definitely let you be more in tune with the road and feel what is going on. If you are looking for a soft plush seat then yes the vette seats suck. Don't know about a 911, but I am not a fan of the boxter seats.

The bolstering on the MS6 is not as strong as the GT500 and the padding is different as well. Frame could be the same but I would not go as far as to say they are the same seat.