2008 Iosis errr... Mondeo! Production (Merged Threads)
9/24/06, 04:16 PM
#21
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anybody read italian or spanish, not sure what this is:
http://www.automotorclub.com/articol...2007/index.htm
http://www.automotorclub.com/articol...2007/index.htm
9/25/06, 09:45 AM
#23
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Jeezus! I can GUARANTEE if Ford built that vehicle above and sold it here, the company's financial woes would begin to disappear. C'mon Ford, the manufacturers of all those cars we import get this equation - why should you be any different? Begin leading again instead of playing "catch up." BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME.
In the past, Ford hasn't always been successful with European Ford imports to the US:- '70's Ford Capri (Mecury Capri in the US) -- HIT
- late '70s -early '80's Ford Fiesta -- minor HIT
- '80's Ford Sierra (Merkur XR4ti in the US) -- MISS
- '80's Ford Scorpio (Merkur Scorpio in the US) --MISS
- '90's Ford Mondeo (Ford Contour in the US) -- MISS
- '90's Ford Cougar ('99 up Mecury Cougar in the US) -- MISS (had good sales the first year though)
- Ford Focus -- HIT
They are selling as many Fusions and cousins as they have capacity to make right now, so the public must like the Fusion's styling, I know I do. I don't think the new Mondeo's styling is any better than the Fusion, just different. In fact, it looks a lot like a up-sized version of the current European Ford Focus.
I think a lot of people who have been commenting on Autoblog are import fans who like the new Mondeo because it looks like an import, and simply because it's not available in the US (things are always better when you can only get them overseas!
)
9/25/06, 11:24 AM
#24
I agree a lot with what Vermillion says. People on Autoblog can rave about the Mondeo all they want, in the end it really doesn't mean very much since we have seen time and time again how distant some of these internet rants are from reality. In fact, it reminds me a great deal of those who whine and cry over the current Mustangs SRA, talking about how it no doubt marks the impending doom of Ford, when the Mustang that very same SRA is pinned under is probably the most successful car, relative to class and price, the US market has seen since the original Taurus.
Could it be better? Of course. Is anybody else doing it better? Umm, no....and there are those who are trying. The Fusion has been extremely well received, especially when discussing the cars styling and dynamics. What that car needs to be even better is an improved interior and a better V-6.Those changes would make it world class in every respect and a class leader in most..........not different styling.
Ford still has a battle ahead, and many cars which need attention right now. But I never cease to be amazed at those who wont give Ford credit for doing it right, even when Ford is doing it right.
Could it be better? Of course. Is anybody else doing it better? Umm, no....and there are those who are trying. The Fusion has been extremely well received, especially when discussing the cars styling and dynamics. What that car needs to be even better is an improved interior and a better V-6.Those changes would make it world class in every respect and a class leader in most..........not different styling.
Ford still has a battle ahead, and many cars which need attention right now. But I never cease to be amazed at those who wont give Ford credit for doing it right, even when Ford is doing it right.
9/25/06, 01:39 PM
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You can GUARANTEE it huh? In the past, Ford hasn't always been successful with European Ford imports to the US:
They are selling as many Fusions and cousins as they have capacity to make right now, so the public must like the Fusion's styling, I know I do. I don't think the new Mondeo's styling is any better than the Fusion, just different. In fact, it looks a lot like a up-sized version of the current European Ford Focus.
I think a lot of people who have been commenting on Autoblog are import fans who like the new Mondeo because it looks like an import, and simply because it's not available in the US (things are always better when you can only get them overseas!)
In the past, Ford hasn't always been successful with European Ford imports to the US:- '70's Ford Capri (Mecury Capri in the US) -- HIT
- late '70s -early '80's Ford Fiesta -- minor HIT
- '80's Ford Sierra (Merkur XR4ti in the US) -- MISS
- '80's Ford Scorpio (Merkur Scorpio in the US) --MISS
- '90's Ford Mondeo (Ford Contour in the US) -- MISS
- '90's Ford Cougar ('99 up Mecury Cougar in the US) -- MISS (had good sales the first year though)
- Ford Focus -- HIT
They are selling as many Fusions and cousins as they have capacity to make right now, so the public must like the Fusion's styling, I know I do. I don't think the new Mondeo's styling is any better than the Fusion, just different. In fact, it looks a lot like a up-sized version of the current European Ford Focus.
I think a lot of people who have been commenting on Autoblog are import fans who like the new Mondeo because it looks like an import, and simply because it's not available in the US (things are always better when you can only get them overseas!
) I sincerely hope that the brass at Ford isn't thinking the way you are, because as much as you may not "like" those remarks on Autoblog (which I suggest you re-read CAREFULLY, by the way), those are the people (all 80+ of them) who are TELLING YOU that they would seriously consider or outright purchase a Ford if the company offered cars of the Mondeo's caliber over here. Yet your argument is to simply dismiss their comments as irrelevant because it somehow doesn't suit your Byzantine world view.
As to all those previously unsuccessful models you trotted out above, that's a mixed bag of data that fails to factor in other things like altering some of the designs to "appeal" to a North American audience, or woefully poor marketing. In the automotive world it's also ANCIENT history. We are now in an ultra competitive global marketplace.
The world has changed. Time to wake up.
I will concede that the Fusion is doing relatively well (though it's not a segment leader yet) and the Lincoln above has a good chance if it's properly executed. Ford's North American operation has a poor track record of execution to date.
9/26/06, 10:44 AM
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).I sincerely hope that the brass at Ford isn't thinking the way you are, because as much as you may not "like" those remarks on Autoblog (which I suggest you re-read CAREFULLY, by the way), those are the people (all 80+ of them) who are TELLING YOU that they would seriously consider or outright purchase a Ford if the company offered cars of the Mondeo's caliber over here. Yet your argument is to simply dismiss their comments as irrelevant because it somehow doesn't suit your Byzantine world view.
So GM did bring it over. And what happened? Let's just say the demand in the real world did not live up to buzz on the internet.
As to all those previously unsuccessful models you trotted out above, that's a mixed bag of data that fails to factor in other things like altering some of the designs to "appeal" to a North American audience, or woefully poor marketing. In the automotive world it's also ANCIENT history. We are now in an ultra competitive global marketplace.
I'm not saying the new Mondeo is a bad design. I'm just saying that because 80 people commented on a blog that they'd buy one is no "GUARANTEE" that it would be Ford's financial "messiah"...
Models that were supposed to be surefire hits according to internet buzz like the SVT Contour and SVT Focus couldn't sell enough to stay in production.
Lincolns are well built cars; they're usually near the top of the JD Powers inital quality and reliability surveys. Look at the LS. The trouble with that car was not its execution, it was that it was not advertised. People didn't know it existed. If they don't repeat that mistake with the MKS and support it, it should be successful.
9/26/06, 03:34 PM
#27
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Ford Trucks are down due to high gas prices and the end of the SUV era, which mostly effects the Explorer; Ford Cars, on the other hand are up, thanks to the Fusion and it's siblings, and the Mustang ("archaic" solid rear axle and all ).
Pretty much any halfway decent design that Ford or GM comes up with but doesn't offer to the US Market will be crowned the "savior" of the domestic auto industry. Remember the Holden Monaro? There was quite a bit of buzz on the internet for a few years about it. People on the internet were saying "Stupid GM! If only they would bring it to the US, I'd buy one..."
So GM did bring it over. And what happened? Let's just say the demand in the real world did not live up to buzz on the internet.
Not all of the models I mentioned were unsuccessful. The original Capri was a hit. The orginal Fiesta was a hit, The Focus continues to sell pretty well.
I'm not saying the new Mondeo is a bad design. I'm just saying that because 80 people commented on a blog that they'd buy one is no "GUARANTEE" that it would be Ford's financial "messiah"...
Models that were supposed to be surefire hits according to internet buzz like the SVT Contour and SVT Focus couldn't sell enough to stay in production.
They sell as many as they can produce right now, which sounds like more than relatively well. How's this for a wild idea: how about improving the already popular Fusion (proven by real world sales) by adding standard side airbags, the 3.5L V6 and AWD? Guess what? Ford plans to do those things.
Lincolns are well built cars; they're usually near the top of the JD Powers inital quality and reliability surveys. Look at the LS. The trouble with that car was not its execution, it was that it was not advertised. People didn't know it existed. If they don't repeat that mistake with the MKS and support it, it should be successful.
).Pretty much any halfway decent design that Ford or GM comes up with but doesn't offer to the US Market will be crowned the "savior" of the domestic auto industry. Remember the Holden Monaro? There was quite a bit of buzz on the internet for a few years about it. People on the internet were saying "Stupid GM! If only they would bring it to the US, I'd buy one..."
So GM did bring it over. And what happened? Let's just say the demand in the real world did not live up to buzz on the internet.
Not all of the models I mentioned were unsuccessful. The original Capri was a hit. The orginal Fiesta was a hit, The Focus continues to sell pretty well.
I'm not saying the new Mondeo is a bad design. I'm just saying that because 80 people commented on a blog that they'd buy one is no "GUARANTEE" that it would be Ford's financial "messiah"...
Models that were supposed to be surefire hits according to internet buzz like the SVT Contour and SVT Focus couldn't sell enough to stay in production.
They sell as many as they can produce right now, which sounds like more than relatively well. How's this for a wild idea: how about improving the already popular Fusion (proven by real world sales) by adding standard side airbags, the 3.5L V6 and AWD? Guess what? Ford plans to do those things.
Lincolns are well built cars; they're usually near the top of the JD Powers inital quality and reliability surveys. Look at the LS. The trouble with that car was not its execution, it was that it was not advertised. People didn't know it existed. If they don't repeat that mistake with the MKS and support it, it should be successful.
I believe it was Einstein who said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Ford of North America has been operating from a position of "insanity" for quite some time now, and has only just begun the process of turning things around, IMHO. Gas prices and reduced truck sales and the UAW and legacy costs are all issues for which the company should have had contingency plans long ago. Few here want to acknowledge or discuss corporate greed and the culture of myopia in the company. Both Ford and GM should have been getting their houses in order 25 years ago when the Japanese onslaught demonstrated that the writing was on the wall.
But we can go back and forth with this academic argument all day. Hopefully things are now changing.
9/27/06, 09:55 AM
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Fusion is targeted at younger buyers in their mid-30s, and Five Hundred handles those in their mid-50s.
The Hermosillo plant can build 300,000 cars annually that will be divided among Fusion, Milan and Zephyr. Fusion is expected to be the volume sedan with first-year sales of 130,000 to 140,000 and more than 170,000 units annually after that.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/classi...ilbusiness-nav
The Hermosillo plant can build 300,000 cars annually that will be divided among Fusion, Milan and Zephyr. Fusion is expected to be the volume sedan with first-year sales of 130,000 to 140,000 and more than 170,000 units annually after that.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/classi...ilbusiness-nav
And the Lincoln LS you mentioned above? A good effort, again...for Ford. But I recall most magazine comparos with other sedans consisently listing it in the bottom half of the pack.I drove it and remember thinking it was a good solid car; what a Ford-badged vehicle OUGHT to be - but not up to the standards of Acura or Lexus - which is where Lincoln should be aiming, frankly.
9/29/06, 04:06 AM
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From Edmunds Inside Line
The 2006 Ford Fusion seems to be trying to be all things to all people, but doesn't really succeed in any one area. The daring exterior styling was deemed too weird or appliancelike by some, the no-nonsense interior just plain boring, and the performance was admirable, but not earth-shattering. Sure, there's that low price, but there's also a lack of content. Its warranty is good, and it's always nice to know there's roadside assistance for the three-year/36,000-mile period, but the Hyundai Sonata's got the Fusion beat there. So, where does that leave us? Fourth Place.
The 2006 Ford Fusion seems to be trying to be all things to all people, but doesn't really succeed in any one area. The daring exterior styling was deemed too weird or appliancelike by some, the no-nonsense interior just plain boring, and the performance was admirable, but not earth-shattering. Sure, there's that low price, but there's also a lack of content. Its warranty is good, and it's always nice to know there's roadside assistance for the three-year/36,000-mile period, but the Hyundai Sonata's got the Fusion beat there. So, where does that leave us? Fourth Place.
And if you want to talk about just sales numbers, the Camry and Accord arent even in the game compared to the Ford F-Series which sells more than both of them combined .
The LS was Motor Trend Car of the Year in 2000. Motor Trend also compared the 2003 LS to the Infiniti M45 and chose the LS.
9/29/06, 07:04 AM
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The concept looks good. However, I am not sure that the rear window will stay like that on the the hatchback (coupe). The visibility is not too good. High volume vehicles need to have mass appeal, rear vision is always a consideration for Mr Joe Public when buying a car.
The original might have been designed in Germany (and built all around Europe), but the new one is designed by an Englishman, Martin Smith (makes me proud!)
The original might have been designed in Germany (and built all around Europe), but the new one is designed by an Englishman, Martin Smith (makes me proud!)
9/29/06, 10:13 AM
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The Edmunds writer obviously doesn't like the Fusion. But there are others who do:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...605030329/1149
Summary
Considering the $1,384 price difference between our two test vehicles, the Fusion SLE seemed to offer so much more than the Camry LE, in terms of engine size and performance, as well as creature comforts and -- most surprising of all -- assembly quality.
Overall Winner: Ford Fusion
Summary
Considering the $1,384 price difference between our two test vehicles, the Fusion SLE seemed to offer so much more than the Camry LE, in terms of engine size and performance, as well as creature comforts and -- most surprising of all -- assembly quality.
Overall Winner: Ford Fusion
Nowhere does it say they chose the LS. They compared the pros and cons of both vehicles - gave the LS V6 a nod for handling over the M45 - and then recommended buying the LS V6 over the LS V8. But they stop short of telling the reader to buy a Lincoln LS over an Infiniti M45...or that they indeed "chose" the LS.
If you took off your import colored glasses for a while you might have actually read in the middle of the page I included a link to:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/verdict.html
...this Lincoln is satisfyingly competent--and our choice among this pair.
...this Lincoln is satisfyingly competent--and our choice among this pair.
9/29/06, 03:53 PM
#32
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Bravo Vermillion!! I loved your defense on Ford's behalf. BC just loves to hate Ford. Everytime I read one of his posts, I think "Why is this guy here??". You have made very good points. I honestly read that Edmunds post and thought to myself "FORD HATER!!". I'm not sure Edmunds ever says anything good about ANY Ford. As I recall, I read the Edmunds review of the Mustang and thought "FORD HATERS!!".
One last time. Everyone repeat after me:
CAMRYS ARE BORRRRRRING!!!!!!!
One last time. Everyone repeat after me:
CAMRYS ARE BORRRRRRING!!!!!!!
9/29/06, 04:26 PM
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Bravo Vermillion!! I loved your defense on Ford's behalf. BC just loves to hate Ford. Everytime I read one of his posts, I think "Why is this guy here??". You have made very good points. I honestly read that Edmunds post and thought to myself "FORD HATER!!". I'm not sure Edmunds ever says anything good about ANY Ford. As I recall, I read the Edmunds review of the Mustang and thought "FORD HATERS!!".
Read, learn and grow up.
If you think the Ford Mustang GT is clunky and crude, think again. It's our winner, outclassing the others with its future retro style, value, comfort and all-out brute horsepower. For an unbelievable price of $25,000, the Ford Mustang delivers the daily adrenaline rush a sport coupe should, without any real sacrifices in drivability, or comfort. It's by far the quickest of the bunch. It doesn't need pricey premium fuel and it has the largest trunk.
If you think the Ford Mustang GT is clunky and crude, think again. It's our winner, outclassing the others with its future retro style, value, comfort and all-out brute horsepower. For an unbelievable price of $25,000, the Ford Mustang delivers the daily adrenaline rush a sport coupe should, without any real sacrifices in drivability, or comfort. It's by far the quickest of the bunch. It doesn't need pricey premium fuel and it has the largest trunk.
9/29/06, 04:37 PM
#34
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How is using two models marketed to different age groups a "zero sum game"? The Fusion is doing very well, the 500 is okay compared to other cars in its class, such as the Avalon (108,000 vs. 95,318 sales last year), but will be doing better with improvements coming down the pipeline.
I said "put," not "putting." One is past tense, the other current tense.
Road & Track review (comes in eleventh out of eleven).
Ward's Automotive review ("Let's just say it's close, but no cigar")
Car and Driver Review (comes in sixth out of seven near-luxury vehicles).
That is, if you're focused on track numbers. On the road, the "Sport" Lincoln has a heavy-footed way over imperfect surfaces. You hear every impact of the tires as the thumps and bumps jar the car's bones. Little shakes are transmitted up through the structure; you feel them in the steering wheel, and you hear little rattles.
The five-speed automatic makes hustling this car less satisfying than it might be. You have to drive as if you were mad at it. It dreads the thought of downshifts, pausing and sighing and making pouty "If I must!" gestures, particularly when asked to drop into second. If you've forgotten the Bickersons, this powertrain marriage will recall them.
The driver's seat is no help, either. Lateral support for your upper body is nil; even for urban intersections you must brace against the wheel to hold your place. And the cushion has a hard contour toward the rear—a stylist's addition—that applies nonstop pressure near the tailbone.
Highs: Potent engine, darn good grip from the all-weather tires, runs up impressive numbers at the test track.
Lows: Heavy-footed ride, contrary seat, transmission cringes at any thought of a downshift, way overpriced.
The Verdict: Hot-rod Lincoln was more fun as a pop tune.
That is, if you're focused on track numbers. On the road, the "Sport" Lincoln has a heavy-footed way over imperfect surfaces. You hear every impact of the tires as the thumps and bumps jar the car's bones. Little shakes are transmitted up through the structure; you feel them in the steering wheel, and you hear little rattles.
The five-speed automatic makes hustling this car less satisfying than it might be. You have to drive as if you were mad at it. It dreads the thought of downshifts, pausing and sighing and making pouty "If I must!" gestures, particularly when asked to drop into second. If you've forgotten the Bickersons, this powertrain marriage will recall them.
The driver's seat is no help, either. Lateral support for your upper body is nil; even for urban intersections you must brace against the wheel to hold your place. And the cushion has a hard contour toward the rear—a stylist's addition—that applies nonstop pressure near the tailbone.
Highs: Potent engine, darn good grip from the all-weather tires, runs up impressive numbers at the test track.
Lows: Heavy-footed ride, contrary seat, transmission cringes at any thought of a downshift, way overpriced.
The Verdict: Hot-rod Lincoln was more fun as a pop tune.
10/2/06, 11:25 AM
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The Avalon is based on the Camry platform actually, and is gussied up and sold as a Lexus as well. It's funny how when Toyota does that it's described as a "scaled back Lexus", but when Ford does the same thing it is described as a "rebadged Ford".
The 500 shares its platform with higher priced Volvos, if name dropping is important to you.
And the truth is, the 500 has not been selling well. Perhaps the facelift will change that.
I will concede I missed that sentence. However, it doesn't change my basic point that the LS - while a good effort - was always at the back of the pack >>
Road & Track review (comes in eleventh out of eleven).
Ward's Automotive review ("Let's just say it's close, but no cigar")
Sorry to have to prove you wrong once again, but, once again, I think this debate is finished.
Road & Track review (comes in eleventh out of eleven).
Ward's Automotive review ("Let's just say it's close, but no cigar")
Sorry to have to prove you wrong once again, but, once again, I think this debate is finished.
That the Lincoln could emerge at the bottom in this group is a testament to what an excellent group of cars this is. The LS has no real vices; it simply didn't triumph over the others in any single category, particularly in engine performance.
One staffer, for instance, was thunderstruck that the Lincoln LS was not ranked higher. "If it had the V-8 in it," he said, "it might be my first choice. It's a great car with an excellent chassis, and it's quietly handsome without looking trendy or smug."
As for the Ward's Auto article, what would you expect from "The Contrarian" (Jerry Flint)? A glowing review?
Popular Mechanics polled owners and they like the LS, and PM's editors liked it too.
The Lincoln LS is the closest you can come to buying an American BMW. It has a smooth V8, rear-wheel drive and a suspension that wants to be driven hard. The Lincoln feels substantial. The chassis is well-balanced between comfort and handling. The structure of the vehicle feels tight and rigid, more so than some of the more expensive cars we've tested.
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