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Shelby GT 500 vs. 2007 Camaro ZL-1

Old 6/8/05, 08:42 AM
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GM is on the verge of restructuring, just yesterday I heard on the radio that they will be closing several plants, and laying off about 25,000 workers, despite this they are still the worlds largest automaker, dont think for a second that they are not aware of the mustang units being sold by Ford, they will have a competitor on the ground and it will be competitively priced..my .02
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Old 6/9/05, 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by mmoonshot@June 8, 2005, 8:45 AM
GM is on the verge of restructuring, just yesterday I heard on the radio that they will be closing several plants, and laying off about 25,000 workers, despite this they are still the worlds largest automaker, dont think for a second that they are not aware of the mustang units being sold by Ford, they will have a competitor on the ground and it will be competitively priced..my .02
I am certain you are correct and I would definitely welcome an offering from the "General". Competition is good for breed, helps keep the boys at the Blue Oval focused on what we want from our favorite Pony Car.
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Old 6/10/05, 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by MustangFanatic@June 9, 2005, 2:13 PM
I am certain you are correct and I would definitely welcome an offering from the "General". Competition is good for breed, helps keep the boys at the Blue Oval focused on what we want from our favorite Pony Car.

Hi

What a competition no exists already now....? :scratch:

for the reason that the competition or the rival who sees the GT500 SVT , not is camaro..( is dead )....., IS THE CORVETTE, which is the C6 400 hps. or the Z06 500 +/- hps.

That´s all.
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Old 6/10/05, 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by TigerGt@June 10, 2005, 3:57 PM
Hi

What a competition no exists already now....? :scratch:

for the reason that the competition or the rival who sees the GT500 SVT , not is camaro..( is dead )....., IS THE CORVETTE, which is the C6 400 hps. or the Z06 500 +/- hps.

That´s all.
I am not sure what you are trying to say, but the Mustang in general does not have any direct competition.
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Old 6/10/05, 05:14 PM
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Hi

Just now no.

But the GT500 SVT go for the Corvette, of it I am sure. It is necessary to remove a bit of weight and be play in tune here and there.

But do not doubt that this it will be the competition....

Regards
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Old 6/11/05, 05:11 PM
  #46  
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Originally posted by wsmatau@June 8, 2005, 8:39 AM
Well, I'd love to see a new Camaro, especially one that looked like those renderings. But no one has mentioned the big picture here. GM is in BIG trouble financially. GMAC is the only thing holding General Motors afloat.
Hate to tell you this, but Ford is not in much better shape than GM. Reportely the ONLY Ford cars that have made a profit in the last 10 years are the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis and Town Car.

Ford's manufacting operations have not done much better than break even over that time. While Ford has made money on SUVs and Trucks, SUV sales are in the toilet right now. Like GMAC, Ford Credit makes almost all of Ford's profits.

Ford has the same pension and health care problems that GM has and the same UAW issues, so it won't be any easier for Ford to dig themselves out.

While the Mustang is a bright spot in otherwise disimal car sales at FoMoCo, Ford needs to sell lots of mainstream sedans like the 500 & Fusion if they have any hope of recovering and again become a healthy company.
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Old 6/13/05, 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by V10@June 11, 2005, 5:14 PM
Hate to tell you this, but Ford is not in much better shape than GM. Reportely the ONLY Ford cars that have made a profit in the last 10 years are the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis and Town Car.
I know that the "Big Three" are all in a world of hurt, but GM is buckling now. and if they do, it will relieve some pressure on Ford and Chrysler. Now they are talking about the 25k person layoff and restructuring that mmoonshot eluded to. I also understand they are contemplating collapsing Pontiac, Buick, etc all into GM and doing away with most of the namesakes. My point was that I don't believe GM will invest the money in R+D on an all new Camaro just to split the market with the Mustang. I personnally believe the Corvette will be lucky to survive the cuts
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Old 6/13/05, 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by wsmatau@June 13, 2005, 7:35 AM
I know that the "Big Three" are all in a world of hurt, but GM is buckling now. and if they do, it will relieve some pressure on Ford and Chrysler. Now they are talking about the 25k person layoff and restructuring that mmoonshot eluded to. I also understand they are contemplating collapsing Pontiac, Buick, etc all into GM and doing away with most of the namesakes. My point was that I don't believe GM will invest the money in R+D on an all new Camaro just to split the market with the Mustang. I personnally believe the Corvette will be lucky to survive the cuts

A new "pony' car from GM wouldn't just split the market...it would make it bigger.
There is some GM engineer on Stangnet named "Fbod-father" saying it will definitely happen,just a matter of when.They won't leave money on the table when they could come up with a hit.
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Old 6/13/05, 02:13 PM
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I dunno ... the GTO hasn't made the market any bigger (for various reasons, I know) and the Charger hasn't been burning up the preorder charts (which isn't really a pony car, I know) ... I think GM is going to avoid the market for a bit, simply because they can't produce the kind of quality car it would take to get a big chunk of the market in that segment at a reasonable price.
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Old 6/13/05, 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by V10@June 11, 2005, 5:14 PM
Hate to tell you this, but Ford is not in much better shape than GM. Reportely the ONLY Ford cars that have made a profit in the last 10 years are the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis and Town Car.

Ford's manufacting operations have not done much better than break even over that time. While Ford has made money on SUVs and Trucks, SUV sales are in the toilet right now. Like GMAC, Ford Credit makes almost all of Ford's profits.

Ford has the same pension and health care problems that GM has and the same UAW issues, so it won't be any easier for Ford to dig themselves out.

While the Mustang is a bright spot in otherwise disimal car sales at FoMoCo, Ford needs to sell lots of mainstream sedans like the 500 & Fusion if they have any hope of recovering and again become a healthy company.


Correction!!! Ford was in trouble like GM is in now, but they've managed to start, repeat, start turning things around. The F-series is still selling well, the 500 has started to sell better and, of course, the Mustangs are just flying off the showroom floors (at least, the GT's are!). Heck, we even got a couple handred bucks profit sharing this past Feb.!! And, Ford hasn't had any offers to buy corporate stock for cash, or thought about selling off its financial arm either. Things aren't all peachy, but, Ford has started to improve!!!!
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Old 6/13/05, 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by hayburner@June 13, 2005, 2:05 PM
A new "pony' car from GM wouldn't just split the market...it would make it bigger.
There is some GM engineer on Stangnet named "Fbod-father" saying it will definitely happen,just a matter of when.They won't leave money on the table when they could come up with a hit.
I disagree. How does GM producing a pony car make the market bigger? If you want a sporty car for $25-35k you already have options. You can argue that people are "holding out" for a Camaro/Firebird but I doubt that the GM brand loyalists that really want a GM ponycar, account for a substantial amount of new car sales. I could be wrong.

Also,
Didn't GM suspend all research on the only reasonable platform for an all new 2 door V8? I don't remember the name of the platform (I am a Ford guy not GM) but I remember reading that they axed the development platform for what was thought to be the next Camaro.
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Old 6/13/05, 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by wsmatau@June 13, 2005, 2:09 PM
I disagree. How does GM producing a pony car make the market bigger? If you want a sporty car for $25-35k you already have options. You can argue that people are "holding out" for a Camaro/Firebird but I doubt that the GM brand loyalists that really want a GM ponycar, account for a substantial amount of new car sales. I could be wrong.

Also,
Didn't GM suspend all research on the only reasonable platform for an all new 2 door V8? I don't remember the name of the platform (I am a Ford guy not GM) but I remember reading that they axed the development platform for what was thought to be the next Camaro.
What happens is this...say Gm comes out with a car that has a little better power to weight ratio and looks good,not rocket science exactly.Hence, Ford responds.The cars get more desirable to consumers as they get better.Competition.

It's happened time and time again within classes of cars and even Pick-ups.Sure there are "sporty" cars in that range,but the Mustang has changed things lately.That segment has been moved somewhat from WRX's to Mustang GT's.
Why wouldn't GM want a piece of that?

They axed the "Zeta" platform ,they think they can do better with RWD. They aren't going to sit back and watch Rome burn. Don't we know them better than that?
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Old 6/13/05, 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by hayburner@June 13, 2005, 3:35 PM
What happens is this...say Gm comes out with a car that has a little better power to weight ratio and looks good,not rocket science exactly.Hence, Ford responds.The cars get more desirable to consumers as they get better.Competition.

It's happened time and time again within classes of cars and even Pick-ups.Sure there are "sporty" cars in that range,but the Mustang has changed things lately.That segment has been moved somewhat from WRX's to Mustang GT's.
Why wouldn't GM want a piece of that?

:scratch: Ok thanks for that attempt at an explaination, but it still doesn't support your statement that the market would expand to accomodate GM. Just because they want a piece of the pie doesn't make the pie bigger. It just means someone is getting a smaller piece.
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Old 6/13/05, 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by wsmatau@June 13, 2005, 5:49 PM
:scratch: Ok thanks for that attempt at an explaination, but it still doesn't support your statement that the market would expand to accomodate GM. Just because they want a piece of the pie doesn't make the pie bigger. It just means someone is getting a smaller piece.

In '65 Ford sold 559,000 Mustangs....zero competition.

In '68 Ford sold 317,000 Mustangs,Chevrolet sold 235,000 Camaros,Mercury sold
114,000 Cougars, Plymouth sold 46,000 Barracudas,Pontiac sold 107,000 Firebirds,AMC sold 62,000 Javelins/AMX's.Lot's of competition!


In 1968 ,a grand total of 871,000 "Pony Cars" were sold , hence my statement the market will expand and "The Pie" got bigger.The numbers back it up.

It was kinda fun looking that up.
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Old 6/14/05, 03:39 AM
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Thumbs down

Originally posted by iceman241@June 4, 2005, 9:10 AM
...i hate the four doors also when did a sports car get four doors and you cant tell me this isnt a sports car when it has that much power.
The same time as the BMW M5, for example. Or the Acura TSX and TL. Or the Audi RS6. Or the Subaru WRX-STi. Or the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution.

Have you been keeping your head somewhere dark and stinky? Because if you look around, 4-door sports cars are quite common. A modern four-door sport sedan chassis is infinitely better than the 2-door B-bodies and F-bodies of yore. 2-doors is no longer a criterion that defines a sports car (or else Toyota's Camry Solara would be more of a sports-car than a Lancer EVO, an asinine thought in and of itself). And sedans sell well. Extremely well.

I'm willing to bet Dodge's Charger R/T will outsell the Pontiac GTO at least 3 to 1. Why? Because it has four doors.

And please do us all a favor-- learn the basic phrase structures of the English language. Also, please learn to punctuate, while you're at it...

Edited in the interests of taking my own advice!
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Old 6/14/05, 03:47 AM
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Originally posted by V10@June 4, 2005, 7:38 AM
The Det News article Tiger GT referenced says the same thing, NO Camaro, as I said it would have been a new RWD Monte Carlo.
Probably just as well. GM needs to appeal to the kind of clientele who live in a house or apartment, instead of a run-down trailer that reeks of cheap beer and tobacco spittle (aka- Average Camaro Enthusiast)...

Anyway, Motor Trend is pretty adamant about Zeta not being dead. Holden is still developing Zeta-based cars. This is a fact.

It is also a fact that GM is re-vamping their manufacturing processes to bring more global cars to the US, and vice-versa.

It is also a fact that the Zetas developed by Holden are compatible with our left-hand-drive. So, every potential Zeta-based Holden is also a potential Chevrolet/Pontiac/Buick.

And, I'm hearing more and more that the new Zeta-based GTO is still on-schedule for 2008...
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