Ford Racing BIG BOOST KIT
12/1/06, 05:26 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Ryan07GT
If these Mustangs were real, more people would know about it and plenty of people would be trying to re-create that combo.
What is the point in calling my bluff, if you weren't willing to check up on the resources I provided for you.
Granted, both of the examples I gave were tuners, with almost an endless supply of blocks, pistons, etc... So they had nothing to lose by going all out. They popped, and one quickly built up a motor and is now pushing over 700/700 with a Kenne Bell 2.6L H.O. kit. The other is still building up as I type this.
Like I said, the info is out there, you just have to make a call. If not, don't waste the bandwidth by calling me out on it. You claimed that I was lying, so I gave you the leads to find the proof on your own.
Like I said, I didn't bring this stuff up to start an online scuffle with anyone, I just wanted to tell you that there are people out there making more power than you think is possible on the stock block. But, you didn't like to hear that for some reason.
For you to say, "Nobody has those power levels...nobody" (Paraphrased) is rediculous. I told you who, and you won't check on it. No big deal, but you should check so you can have factual info.
12/1/06, 05:27 PM
#43
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12/1/06, 05:37 PM
#44
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Plenty of people know about it. Obviously, you haven't done all the research you claim. Why don't you just call Kenne Bell to confirm this? Ask them who tests there kits in San Bernardino, and ask if they know the numbers that were put through the stock block.
What is the point in calling my bluff, if you weren't willing to check up on the resources I provided for you.
Granted, both of the examples I gave were tuners, with almost an endless supply of blocks, pistons, etc... So they had nothing to lose by going all out. They popped, and one quickly built up a motor and is now pushing over 700/700 with a Kenne Bell 2.6L H.O. kit. The other is still building up as I type this.
Like I said, the info is out there, you just have to make a call. If not, don't waste the bandwidth by calling me out on it. You claimed that I was lying, so I gave you the leads to find the proof on your own.
Like I said, I didn't bring this stuff up to start an online scuffle with anyone, I just wanted to tell you that there are people out there making more power than you think is possible on the stock block. But, you didn't like to hear that for some reason.
For you to say, "Nobody has those power levels...nobody" (Paraphrased) is rediculous. I told you who, and you won't check on it. No big deal, but you should check so you can have factual info.
What is the point in calling my bluff, if you weren't willing to check up on the resources I provided for you.
Granted, both of the examples I gave were tuners, with almost an endless supply of blocks, pistons, etc... So they had nothing to lose by going all out. They popped, and one quickly built up a motor and is now pushing over 700/700 with a Kenne Bell 2.6L H.O. kit. The other is still building up as I type this.
Like I said, the info is out there, you just have to make a call. If not, don't waste the bandwidth by calling me out on it. You claimed that I was lying, so I gave you the leads to find the proof on your own.
Like I said, I didn't bring this stuff up to start an online scuffle with anyone, I just wanted to tell you that there are people out there making more power than you think is possible on the stock block. But, you didn't like to hear that for some reason.
For you to say, "Nobody has those power levels...nobody" (Paraphrased) is rediculous. I told you who, and you won't check on it. No big deal, but you should check so you can have factual info.
So....if both motors blew up, that means nobody is running those levels. They were test subjects. And if someone is running 700, they obviously are using forged internals. It's dumb enough trying to push 600, but 700 would just be plain stupid on cast internals. The whole point of everything I was saying, and I'll say it again, is running SAFELY, which nobody can or ever will on stock internals at 600.
12/1/06, 05:44 PM
#45
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Thanks. So the crank and rods are different between the 4v Cobra short block and the 3v '05 short block. Aside from the compression difference, is the piston material the same, i.e. cast, hypereutectic, forged?? Also, are the blocks any different?
I'm probably showing my ignorance here but I've searched and cannot find any specs on the 3v engine.... Just a quick question>> What is the C.R.?? To be able to run 87 octane and still make 300 hp with a 4.6 is amazing in my book.
Willie
I'm probably showing my ignorance here but I've searched and cannot find any specs on the 3v engine.... Just a quick question>> What is the C.R.?? To be able to run 87 octane and still make 300 hp with a 4.6 is amazing in my book.
Willie
12/1/06, 05:50 PM
#46
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Thanks. So the crank and rods are different between the 4v Cobra short block and the 3v '05 short block. Aside from the compression difference, is the piston material the same, i.e. cast, hypereutectic, forged?? Also, are the blocks any different?
I'm probably showing my ignorance here but I've searched and cannot find any specs on the 3v engine.... Just a quick question>> What is the C.R.?? To be able to run 87 octane and still make 300 hp with a 4.6 is amazing in my book.
Willie
I'm probably showing my ignorance here but I've searched and cannot find any specs on the 3v engine.... Just a quick question>> What is the C.R.?? To be able to run 87 octane and still make 300 hp with a 4.6 is amazing in my book.
Willie
12/1/06, 06:24 PM
#47
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So....if both motors blew up, that means nobody is running those levels. They were test subjects. And if someone is running 700, they obviously are using forged internals. It's dumb enough trying to push 600, but 700 would just be plain stupid on cast internals. The whole point of everything I was saying, and I'll say it again, is running SAFELY, which nobody can or ever will on stock internals at 600.
As far as it being dumb or not, that all depends on the application. Is it dumb for me to throw a 16 psi pulley on my daily driven stock block? Yes. Is it dumb for them, not at all.
PSI Performance made over 100 passes down the 1320' while at these power levels. Trust me, we all thought it was nothing short of amazing!
I agree, that noone can safely/reliably run 600+ on the stock block. But there have been people pushing the limits and succeeding in proving the nay-sayers wrong.
I mentioned that people have ran 600+ and you called me out and basically called me a liar. No biggie. I couldn't believe it either. But I surely would never call them a liar.
There have been a lot of advances in our cars in the after market lately. Specifically fuel systems. If your fuel system is set up correctly, and you have a great tune, you will be making better numbers than anyone thought possible before.
12/1/06, 08:41 PM
#48
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And I'll add this to the fray. There is no such thing as a "magic number".
Sure, people have popped motors going beyond 475-500 hp, but guess what...people have popped motors with less too. It's a gamble, and I think people going this route know full well the possible consequences.
Sure, people have popped motors going beyond 475-500 hp, but guess what...people have popped motors with less too. It's a gamble, and I think people going this route know full well the possible consequences.
12/1/06, 09:25 PM
#49
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Ryan has a very good point. There is some risk with this engine once you start pushing around 425hp due to the piston design.
Check this article out, although it is Steeda bias they really did thier homework.
http://mustangmonthly.com/featuredve..._0512_steedas/
Quote from page 2 of the article
"Anyone modifying an '05 GT for more performance should be aware of the engine's limits. After all, it's not Ford's responsibility to provide an engine for racing, so consequently, the three-valve 4.6 was designed for 300 hp, plus a stress safety margin. Steeda says the engine will live with 425 hp as long as timing and fuel is managed to prevent detonation. Anything more than 425 hp and "You're just waiting to buy a new engine," says Dario Orlando."
Check this article out, although it is Steeda bias they really did thier homework.
http://mustangmonthly.com/featuredve..._0512_steedas/
Quote from page 2 of the article
"Anyone modifying an '05 GT for more performance should be aware of the engine's limits. After all, it's not Ford's responsibility to provide an engine for racing, so consequently, the three-valve 4.6 was designed for 300 hp, plus a stress safety margin. Steeda says the engine will live with 425 hp as long as timing and fuel is managed to prevent detonation. Anything more than 425 hp and "You're just waiting to buy a new engine," says Dario Orlando."
12/1/06, 11:42 PM
#50
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This thread reads like a tool convention!
12/2/06, 06:51 AM
#51
12/2/06, 08:58 AM
#52
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I certainly don't mean to start yet another ****ing match, and when I saw your post I assumed I had made a mistake, but hear is a quote from Jim III on ModularFords.com re JDM's sale on their Saleen kits. Which by the way are an amazing deal for anyone interested in getting Blown!!!!!
"Well we just recieved our latest shipment of Saleen series VI supercharger kits and I wanted to offer some holiday specials!! We have nearly 20 of the Saleen kits in stock and are offering them in every form imaginable for specials. The Saleen series VI unit is a twin screw twin intercooled system that produces 4 psi boost stock and gains nearly 120 HP over factory stock. With our stage 1 and 2 kits the HP and TQ gains sky rocket and turn your car into a street animal! The limit of this blower has yet to be found with our test car producing 600 RWHP and running 10.2 Elapsed 1/4 mile times. These kits have already been installed on over 500 vehicles and have been run sucessfully."
Here's the link.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2...buy-66876.html
From what I have read about JDM and the family who owns and operates it I doubt they are making these numbers up. Also when I was considering purchasing their setup the wait time was approximately 6 weeks with them doing approximately 2 kits per day. If you figure they have been offering this kit for over a year, and not just installs they ship all over the world, I think the 500 number isn't unreasonable. If you want to go to the source contact JimIII directly and ask him.
Neil
12/2/06, 12:04 PM
#53
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For you...Adam at ST Motorsports in San Bernardino, CA and Dean at PSI Performance in San Antonio, TX.
I don't care either way.
I just hope NDHESQ has a good experience with his Big Boost kit! Best of luck man!
12/2/06, 01:23 PM
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If someone called them and asked "Are you running 600 rwhp on stock internals?" Their answer would be NO. It first started with "I know people who are running 600+" to "Yeah they did and both motors popped". I'm not gonna call, since it would be a waste of time. There is a big difference in actually running constant on 600 rwhp and just testing the limits of the motor. I just don't understand why I am being called a tool and a ******* for not knowing about 2 guys on the other side of the country who blew up 2 motors. I don't know how myself or anyone else could have researched that beforehand other than calling every speed shop in the country, since it wasn't documented anywhere on the web and I can understand why. It was just a test to see what the bottom end could handle. So the fact still is that nobody is running 600 rwhp on stock internals. Case closed...end of story.
12/2/06, 04:42 PM
#55
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Any one running over 425 rwhp on a stock bottom end is just asking for trouble. The motor may last 20k, 30k or even 60k but eventually some thing will break. How long the motor lasts has to do with how well it was tuned and how the car is driven. Ford didn't design this motor to take large amounts of boost. Lets not forget that one important factor.
12/4/06, 11:04 AM
#58
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If someone called them and asked "Are you running 600 rwhp on stock internals?" Their answer would be NO. It first started with "I know people who are running 600+" to "Yeah they did and both motors popped". I'm not gonna call, since it would be a waste of time. There is a big difference in actually running constant on 600 rwhp and just testing the limits of the motor. I just don't understand why I am being called a tool and a ******* for not knowing about 2 guys on the other side of the country who blew up 2 motors. I don't know how myself or anyone else could have researched that beforehand other than calling every speed shop in the country, since it wasn't documented anywhere on the web and I can understand why. It was just a test to see what the bottom end could handle. So the fact still is that nobody is running 600 rwhp on stock internals. Case closed...end of story.
I told you who and you still didn't believe me. Both of their experiences were well documented on the web, you just didn't bother searching.
The reason you were being called a *******, was because you were claiming to have 10+ years in experience and plenty of S197 knowledge, but you are saying that you are playing with fire at 425 rwhp. You were discrediting my claims that the tune and a proper set up is the most important factor, and not a number. Someone running 500 rwhp in a S/C car is causing more stress on their motor than someone who is running 500 rwhp in a T/C car. You failed to mention this in your blanket statement about your 425 rwhp being a safe limit, so to speak.
The reason you were called a tool, is because I stated some facts, you called me a liar, I provided info for you to do your research, and you still said I could be lying and you wouldn't check for yourself. You further made the "tool" name fit the part, by saying that these perticulars were nowhere on the web, and that they were rightfully left out.
I am not making this stuff up. I have no reason too. I just wanted to better inform people that the number is not as important as the tune and set up.
People looking for high HP numbers should be focusing on who is going to tune the car, how are they going to get fuel, how will the car be used, are they willing to build another block? These should be some of the deciding factors.
Why would someone want to limit their selves to say 425 rwhp on a canned tune, only to have it blow up because they didn't get their AF checked? Someone reading your post may think that if they are at 425 or lower, they'll be good to go. This is not the case.
Again, we both agree that people should not expect to reach these numbers and still run reliably. But then again, people looking for these numbers, can usually be given the benifit of the doubt that they've done their research.
Still, you cannot say that NOBODY is running 600 rwhp on stock internals. It may be to the best of your knowledge, but surely you have no idea what other people may or may not be running. You've already proved this.
Case can now be closed.
12/4/06, 11:50 AM
#59
I certainly don't mean to start yet another ****ing match, and when I saw your post I assumed I had made a mistake, but hear is a quote from Jim III on ModularFords.com re JDM's sale on their Saleen kits. Which by the way are an amazing deal for anyone interested in getting Blown!!!!!
"Well we just recieved our latest shipment of Saleen series VI supercharger kits and I wanted to offer some holiday specials!! We have nearly 20 of the Saleen kits in stock and are offering them in every form imaginable for specials. The Saleen series VI unit is a twin screw twin intercooled system that produces 4 psi boost stock and gains nearly 120 HP over factory stock. With our stage 1 and 2 kits the HP and TQ gains sky rocket and turn your car into a street animal! The limit of this blower has yet to be found with our test car producing 600 RWHP and running 10.2 Elapsed 1/4 mile times. These kits have already been installed on over 500 vehicles and have been run sucessfully."
Here's the link.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2...buy-66876.html
From what I have read about JDM and the family who owns and operates it I doubt they are making these numbers up. Also when I was considering purchasing their setup the wait time was approximately 6 weeks with them doing approximately 2 kits per day. If you figure they have been offering this kit for over a year, and not just installs they ship all over the world, I think the 500 number isn't unreasonable. If you want to go to the source contact JimIII directly and ask him.
Neil
"Well we just recieved our latest shipment of Saleen series VI supercharger kits and I wanted to offer some holiday specials!! We have nearly 20 of the Saleen kits in stock and are offering them in every form imaginable for specials. The Saleen series VI unit is a twin screw twin intercooled system that produces 4 psi boost stock and gains nearly 120 HP over factory stock. With our stage 1 and 2 kits the HP and TQ gains sky rocket and turn your car into a street animal! The limit of this blower has yet to be found with our test car producing 600 RWHP and running 10.2 Elapsed 1/4 mile times. These kits have already been installed on over 500 vehicles and have been run sucessfully."
Here's the link.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2...buy-66876.html
From what I have read about JDM and the family who owns and operates it I doubt they are making these numbers up. Also when I was considering purchasing their setup the wait time was approximately 6 weeks with them doing approximately 2 kits per day. If you figure they have been offering this kit for over a year, and not just installs they ship all over the world, I think the 500 number isn't unreasonable. If you want to go to the source contact JimIII directly and ask him.
Neil
I didn't know it was that high - but then again, thinking about it, after tuning that kit for as long as they have, I guess I shouldn't be surprised....
As for Jim Jr, JDM's customer service, etc..... that I know first hand.....
12/4/06, 04:00 PM
#60
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Regardless if they blew, they were running. I said that I knew people who had pushed way beyond what you said these motors could handle. You tried calling me out as a liar, telling me to prove it to you.
I told you who and you still didn't believe me. Both of their experiences were well documented on the web, you just didn't bother searching.
The reason you were being called a *******, was because you were claiming to have 10+ years in experience and plenty of S197 knowledge, but you are saying that you are playing with fire at 425 rwhp. You were discrediting my claims that the tune and a proper set up is the most important factor, and not a number. Someone running 500 rwhp in a S/C car is causing more stress on their motor than someone who is running 500 rwhp in a T/C car. You failed to mention this in your blanket statement about your 425 rwhp being a safe limit, so to speak.
The reason you were called a tool, is because I stated some facts, you called me a liar, I provided info for you to do your research, and you still said I could be lying and you wouldn't check for yourself. You further made the "tool" name fit the part, by saying that these perticulars were nowhere on the web, and that they were rightfully left out.
I am not making this stuff up. I have no reason too. I just wanted to better inform people that the number is not as important as the tune and set up.
People looking for high HP numbers should be focusing on who is going to tune the car, how are they going to get fuel, how will the car be used, are they willing to build another block? These should be some of the deciding factors.
Why would someone want to limit their selves to say 425 rwhp on a canned tune, only to have it blow up because they didn't get their AF checked? Someone reading your post may think that if they are at 425 or lower, they'll be good to go. This is not the case.
Again, we both agree that people should not expect to reach these numbers and still run reliably. But then again, people looking for these numbers, can usually be given the benifit of the doubt that they've done their research.
Still, you cannot say that NOBODY is running 600 rwhp on stock internals. It may be to the best of your knowledge, but surely you have no idea what other people may or may not be running. You've already proved this.
Case can now be closed.
I told you who and you still didn't believe me. Both of their experiences were well documented on the web, you just didn't bother searching.
The reason you were being called a *******, was because you were claiming to have 10+ years in experience and plenty of S197 knowledge, but you are saying that you are playing with fire at 425 rwhp. You were discrediting my claims that the tune and a proper set up is the most important factor, and not a number. Someone running 500 rwhp in a S/C car is causing more stress on their motor than someone who is running 500 rwhp in a T/C car. You failed to mention this in your blanket statement about your 425 rwhp being a safe limit, so to speak.
The reason you were called a tool, is because I stated some facts, you called me a liar, I provided info for you to do your research, and you still said I could be lying and you wouldn't check for yourself. You further made the "tool" name fit the part, by saying that these perticulars were nowhere on the web, and that they were rightfully left out.
I am not making this stuff up. I have no reason too. I just wanted to better inform people that the number is not as important as the tune and set up.
People looking for high HP numbers should be focusing on who is going to tune the car, how are they going to get fuel, how will the car be used, are they willing to build another block? These should be some of the deciding factors.
Why would someone want to limit their selves to say 425 rwhp on a canned tune, only to have it blow up because they didn't get their AF checked? Someone reading your post may think that if they are at 425 or lower, they'll be good to go. This is not the case.
Again, we both agree that people should not expect to reach these numbers and still run reliably. But then again, people looking for these numbers, can usually be given the benifit of the doubt that they've done their research.
Still, you cannot say that NOBODY is running 600 rwhp on stock internals. It may be to the best of your knowledge, but surely you have no idea what other people may or may not be running. You've already proved this.
Case can now be closed.
WOW. You just can't give it up. I never said tuning wasn't important and never said 425 was the magic number. You just keep adding more and more as this thread progresses. So basically I am a ******* and a tool. That's great news coming from a kid who gets sidelined BY A FUSE .
