I don't necessarily agree you need to changing control arms. I don't see a complaint of wheelhop here, and that's where control arms help. They do not limit lateral movement of the axle. That's the PHB or Watts Link job.

Reading between the lines, and knowing that I could be wrong here, so let me know if I am: It seems to me when you state you want to "keep both wheels planted on the ground" along with the other statements it seems what you are trying to get is the rear more stable and get rid of the hopping and skipping solid axle cars can be prone to. Right or wrong?

If I'm on target the Watts will help, a lot. But I have to be honest when I tell you that the stock dampers aren't great, and get worse with age. My girlfriend's Mustang with stock shocks dances around a lot more than my car on Koni's--a LOT more. And as she adds miles, it gets worse and worse as the shocks can't deal with the unsprung weight well and it's getting worse.

So while adding a Watts is not a bad idea, if you ask anyone who has done better dampers (primarily premium ones) you'll find the back of the car settles down by a huge amount. And you can use the Watts to settle it even more.

You can use the Watts with all stock suspension if you want. The control arms and Watts link do similar jobs in so far as both locate the axle. But when you drive, the jobs are different, and there is no issue with having non stock control arms.

And anyone who tells you a control arm change is required is incorrect. In fact there are cars out there that have all stock control arms and don't wheelhop at all. I know, because I've set a number of them up.

 

Sam, your absolutely 100% right on the money. As my objective, is to get the rear more stable, and also get rid of the hopping and skipping that solid axle cars are prone to. And yes, I also can't stand how the rear dances around, whenever going over a pavement bump.

Although I don't take my car to the track, I do drive spiritually and will occasionally road race. So my question, is would you recommend that I start out with better dampers first, and if so. Which brand would you recommend ?

In the meantime, would you also recommend going with front and rear sway bars, and again, if so. Which brand would you then recommend ?


At any rate, I'm very grateful for all your feedback and support.




-Rocky

 

Try the Frpp suspension kit. Or at least the front and rear sway bars, but with the money you are spending on this stuff, you could get a Fays2 Watts link.

 

Torrence, yes I understand where your coming from, however both Qwik Huh, and Sam Strano do not recommend using the Fays 2 Watts link with the stock suspension.

On the other hand, would it be possible to get by with just the front and rear sway bars, along with the Fays 2 Watts link.

 

Guess it depends on what you are trying to achieve.

 

What I'm trying to achieve, is get the rear more stable and also get rid of the hopping and skipping that solid axle cars are prone to.

 

Then you should go with LCA's and UCA's and a rear sway bar. That should solve your problem. Next question is what manufacturer you going to go with.

 

If Sam also recommends going with UCA/LCA's. I'll more than likely select Steeda, as my manufacturer. As for front and rear sway bars are concerned. I'm not quite sure as to which manufacturer to select, however I am open to suggestions.

 

its like me i am planning on going with an FRPP handleing pack with BMR upper and lower links, then after that is all set up then i will go with a Fays or Griggs Watts link

 

I am also considering an FRPP handling pack as well, but without the lowering springs. As for UCA/LCA's are concerned. I'm still waiting to find out from Sam Strano, as to whether or not, he recommends getting them.

 

i recommend it, but also it depends on what you want the car for, if you going road racing then they help a little, if you going drag racing then they help to solve the wheel hop issue with these cars. but if you want the the FRPP kit for the sway bars only then i suggest you get the FRPP sway bar kit or the BMR one. The Shocks from the FRPP kit are designed for a lowered vehicle so unless you are running some lowered springs then it is not worth spending the $1300 for the kit.

 

Ira, my car is pretty much a Daily Driver. So my objective, is to get the rear more stable while also getting rid of the hopping and skipping that solid axle cars are prone to.

In the meantime, if FRPP shocks are designed only for lowered vehicles. Then perhaps dampers, such as Koni's could be the right ones. Or maybe even Tokico HP shocks/struts. Another possibility might also be Steeda Pro Action Shocks/Struts.

 

On second thought, after just reading the Hitachi/Tokico Warranty Sucks Thread. I have no intentions on purchasing any of Tokico's products whatsoever !

 

Yeah my car is my daily driver but i want to add some suspension so i can go to a road race if i want to, so i am just going to go with the FRPP kit with BMR upper and lowers

for you i would go with Konis or bilsteins (if you want to dish out the extra cash) the steeda shocks are just their version of the FRPP ones.

 

They don't recommend it, but they do not actually explain what the specific negative effects would be...

Will the Watts link actually cause any problems with the stock suspension that it does not on an after market suspension? If so what problems specifically? If not what exactly is the problem with using a Watts link with a stock suspension?

What I read sounded like personal opinions, with no technical details, did I miss something?

It seems to me better controlling the lateral movement between the car and the rear axle would be a good thing regardless of the other suspension parts??? Seriously, what am I missing?

I like the stock ride and stock ride height of my stock Mustang suspensions.

If I could truly increase the Cornering Stability for $700 worth of parts without altering or diminishing my current driveability that would be a very good thing.

I would absolutly consider putting a Watts link on both my 2008 Bullitt and GT500 while keeping the rest of their stock suspension parts in place. I will not be changing out any of the other stock suspension parts anytime soon.

 

These are also some of the very same questions, I have as well.

 

Ira, by any chance would you happen to know the website address for Koni and Bilsteins ?

 

ahhhh...gotcha. thanks for the re-edumication.

 

Adding a little info for you guys. The first quote below is from last week on the IMBOC forum from a customer who installed the Watts on his car. Following that are some other snippets taken from actual customers with S197's.

-----------------------------------------
"what i have experienced since the fays2 watts link install is that when i approach a curve, there is no "shifting" of the rear end when entering a curve and "setting" of the rear end when the car reaches a certain level of outward force while taking the curve. the rear of the car stays planted and inspires confidence. the car now handles the same turning right or left, and this to me was one of the main characteristics i have been looking for. i have also witnessed that curves can be taken faster than before, and the car can even accelerate through curves where the throttle had to remain steady before."
----------------------------------
" I must say it makes an incredible difference in the handling of my 2007 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500. One of the reasons I decided to replace the factory pan hard bar was the movement of the rear end of the car. For instance when you fill your tank with fuel and measure from the wheel and to the lip of the quarter panel, then with an empty tank of fuel do the same measurement. You will see .180" of and inch difference. I made an assumption this is not a good thing for handling and I started doing research. I did talk with other Mustang enthusiasts and they sent me to a number of web sites explaining theory of a pan hard bar and a Watts Link. I am very happy with the FAYS2 Watts Link and would recommend it to any Mustang owner what a difference. I am not a track racer but I love to cruse and enjoy the car and even in street applications it makes a huge difference. You will really notice when you go over uneven pavement the rear end of the car feels solid and sure footed."
---------------------------------------
" watts link changed my GT 500. Prior to installation, when I put the car hard into a curve it was difficult to tell when the suspension was going to set and when it did it still wasn't very stable. Probably the worst part was that there wasn't any consistency in what the car was going to do. under steer, over steer, you just never knew what to expect. After I installed the watts link I took it hard through some sharp curves to see if any thing had changed. Wow, I was amazed, Finally the car handled the way it should. The car's suspension set and stayed set. I feel body roll was also minimal. But most importantly the car was predictable and stable. A huge difference. This is a very worth while Mod."
------------------------------


There are other posts like that, and we have similar responses from F-body owners who use them (also a solid axle PHB car to start).

Watts links aren't cheap, but they do work. The change is so big you even find them on cars that either have to be some combination of better handling, riding, or more stable for the masses. Crown Vics have a version stock. Even a little dinky PT Cruiser which is FWD no less has a version of a Watts link as OE. I can only figure in that car it's for stabilty since it's tall and light. The original RX7 which was a solid axle car had them in 1978.... And anytime you see a car that is meant to handle, and can run a Watts over a PHB you will find that to be the case. The Australian V8 Supercars all use Watts links (both the Holdens and the Fords). And right now those are the pinnacle of solid axle RWD cars racing today.

 

Sam or anyone else, do you know which aftermarket swaybars this unit is compatible with? Specifically, will the FRPP / Eibach rear swaybar still fit?