RRRoamer

Very nice link MJC302. From looking at the pics, it looks like they insulated the box and the intake tubes as well, all the way to the intake manifold.

This is just a guess 94tbird, but I would bet that the reason the WMS responds to insulating the box so much better than the JLT is because the intake tube is about 1/6 as long on the WMS. Thats 1/6 the amount of time for the air to heat in the tube, so heating in the box is much more important on the WMS than on the JLT.

So come on folks, we need more DATA!

94tbird

exactly more data is needed, even for those intakes that have already been logged. the more the better

94tbird

even insulated he couldnt get below ambient temperature

Hatchman

Yes, more data! Datalogging is not that hard, anyone with an Xcal2 or Predator should be able to do this easily. Oh wait, I have another 05 Mustang GT sitting in the driveway, and it has a JLT CAI as well, only it's an automatic instead of a manual. I don't think there will be much difference, but only one way to find out!

I'll report back later.

RRRoamer

That'a'boy Hatchman! Let's see those numbers!

I KNOW some folks out there have WMS installed already! Insulated and non insulated! Do your part for the community, post your data log session results here!

Hatchman

Here's the results:
05 Mustang GT automatic, JLT CAI, 87 octane tune, stock exhaust

84F outside airtemperature, 80% humidity, night time
Drove the car around for 15 minutes.

Let the car heat up to a blistering 150F, coolant temp was 196, about 5 degrees warmer than my manual. Seemed under the hood temps climbed faster as well, even though this test was conducted at night, and temps where a few (3) degrees cooler. Also, my manual slowly got to 143, then was rising very slowly, a tenth of a degree at a time, but the auto shot right up to 150 in 4 minutes and pretty steadily climbing a few tenths at a time. Seemed the auto transmission was adding a couple of degrees to the equation. Not enought to notice, but measurable.

30mph datalog, went from 150F to 119F in one minute, then pretty much leveled off there. Drove around for 8 minutes, but the temp never got below 115F, so I called it a day at 31 degrees above ambient at 30 mph.

Then did the 60 mph run. Went from 138F to 99F in less than 30 seconds, really quick, but then levelled out just like withe the manual, and after that the 8 minute mark, lowest reading was 91. So 7 degrees above ambient at 60mph.

So, the cliff not version:
Auto gets a little hotter under the hood at a standstill than the manual, about 5 degrees, and gets warmer quicker.
Auto has about a 5 degree higher coolant temp.
Both cool down over 30 degrees at less than a minute, whether it's 30mph or 60 mph, and arrive at about the same above ambient temperature, with the manual about 3 degrees cooler, probably due to the higher coolant temp and closeness of the radiator to the CAI.

94tbird

very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to datalog for us again. Anyone got the WMS yet?

RRRoamer

Thanks Hatchman. It DOES make sense that the auto gets hotter faster as the automatic tranny dumps a LOT of heat into the radiator.

How much heat? Well....

My other vehicle is a 1981 Ford F100 pickup with a 351W in front of a C6 automatic. One day, I was merging on the interstate going up a slight hill, so I was at full throttle for 15 seconds or so. When I let off the gas as I got up to speed, the truck kept accelerating.

To make (what could be) a long story short(er), it took my passenger a while to find the hood release (didn't find it at all, I ended up having them stomp on the petal so I could get out and kill it!). The whole reason I didn't kill it with my key is I couldn't, not with it in drive (the lock cylinder ended up breaking about 3 weeks later, so I know WHY it wouldn't shut it off in drive!) and I wasn't willing to let the engine run at full throttle with no load while I TRIED to shut it off in park! (just in case the key broke too!)

That truck sat there on the side of the road for about 30 seconds at full throttle at full stall (2100 stall torque converter too...) plus the time it took to stop it with me on the brakes and it at full power before I could get the hood open and yank the coil wire.

When it finally died, there was SMOKE coming off the transmission hard lines to the radiator! They were that hot! I knew that torque converter was KILLING the oil, but I didn't know it was that hot.

Needless to say, I found the problem (tranny kick down link had popped off the stud and completely jammed the throttle linkage), fixed it and hit the road as fast as I could to get lots of air flowing through the radiator to cool things off. I followed up with a complete tranny fluid change once I got home.

I STILL had to pull the tranny two weeks later because the heat had killed the front seal and it pretty much came apart on me and dumped all the fluid out in about 100 yards...

Anyway! Back on topic: Any more data logging experiements?

Firedude

Sooo I think we are learning something here. They all work about the same. Which is good.

Hatchman

Just for the heck of it, brought my lap top on a 4 hour trip with me to play with the data logging. A few interesting things on there.

During the whole trip, bets was 4F degrees difference between outside air temperature and inlet temp, which is fine with me. That was running down the interestate around... 70, yeah that's it!

Lots of other cool stuff to datalog too. I found that vehicle speed while datalogging reads accurate to less than 1mph, but the actual speedo guage read 2 to 3 mph fast. Interesting. Also, I can watch an accurate coolant temp and voltages down to hundreths of a decimal place without relying on the idiot guages.

Anyway, get out there, hook up those laptops, and do some datalogging!

94tbird

bump. anyone else up for this

RRRoamer

I kind of assumed that this thread was dead... No one with a WMS installed has done the data logging yet. Or, if they had, they didn't want to post the results!

I STILL want to see what results folks are getting with the WMS intake with ram air (It is still very high on my CAI list). I believe that given where the WMS draws air from and how short the intake track is, the WMS SHOULD be the coolest (inlet temperature wise!) intake on the market today. But I want to see the data...

Given how many people on this list participated in the WMS group buy, there has to be at least ONE person that is willing to spend about an hour (or less) doing all the data logging listed in the first post (I'll repost later so folks don't have to keep going back to the first post in the thread to see what data I was asking for!). Someone???

Oh, and I would love to see more C&L, JLT, K&N and BBK (when available!) as well. Lots to do folks and it really doesn't take too long! I promise.

RRRoamer

This is a repost from the starter topic. It has the details on the requested data logging so we can compare apples to apples (or even oranges to oranges if we want!). I'm reposting it so folks don't have to go all the way back to the beginning to find the test procedure!

Gents,

There has been so many threads talking about the advantages of various materials and functionality of various CAI in reference to intake air temperatue. Given that there are so many Predators and X-Cal 2s out there in the hands of various folks with aftermarket intakes, why don't we data log some temperature data and FINALLY put a nail in this coffin?

Here is what I propose:

1) Setup: Everyone datalog vehicle speed, outside air temperatue and inlet air temperatue.
2) Warm the car up completely for at least 15 minutes driving were you want and how you want.
3) Data log the car at idle for at least 4 minutes (like you are sitting at a long light)
4) Data log the car at 30 mph after at least 1 minute to let temps stabalize
5) Data log the car at 60 mph after at least 1 minute to let temps stabalize

Once you have collected the data, post it here. We need to see the vehicle speed, outside air temp and inlet air temp for each of 3), 4) and 5) above. You folks with stock intakes can join in too. From my own experience, you should find that the stock intake is pulling in a LOT of hot air, at least mine does! For item 3), be sure to show what the temps were when you started idling and what they were at the end of 4 minutes.

Let the data logging begin!

blackhat

I have the WMS intake w/ram but I don't have any data logging equip.

05STG1

Im ready to log, but trying to work out the issues with my laptop. Software is loaded, but windows 98 could be a issue.

RRRoamer

blackhat97,

What type of tuner did you use to retune for the WMS intake? Both the Predator and the SCT X-calibrator 2 can datalog using a laptop and the supplied (or at least, available) software. It is VERY cool to get it up and runing and see exactly what your engine is doing while going down the road!

05STG1,

Yeah. Win98 has CRAPPY support for USB. SE2 was better, but still not great. I'm just glad that my work laptop is running WinXP. Of course, over the weekend, I was going to install my wideband O2 sensor system and datalog A/F ratios. Until I found out that a) It appears to require a special tool to remove either of the front O2 sensors and B) my laptop does not have a serial connection that I need to communicate with the wideband controller. Oh well. I'll have Mom order the tool (she works at Vision Ford) and I already ordered a serial to USB converter.

Good luck getting the USB issues worked out.

Oh! One thing I forgot to mention! If you use the X-Cal 2, then you need to download the USB drivers for it from www.sctflash.com. WinXP will not recognize the device until you install the drivers. Download them, install them, and the plug your X-Cal2 in and you should see that little pop up in the lower right corner saying it found new hardware and installed the drivers for it. After that, you should be able to fire up LiveLink and get kicking.

6505pony

Doesn't the standard O2 socket work that you can get just about anywhere? Or is it one of those proprietary or can't get to it without a special tool things.

I just installed the Live Link in my laptop this past weekend with no problems with XP. I've got to play around with the software a little bit to see what parameters it records.


What wideband O2 sensor did you go with because I was thinking of getting one.

blackhat

RRRoamer,

I didn't retune after installing my WMS. It doesn't require one since it doesn't affect the A/F ratio. Although it certainly would benefit from a tune but I don't have a Predator or SCT or anything. Just my ignition key, right foot, and SOTP dyno

S,

Looking forward to seeing your results. Hopefully you won't have any issues with Win 98.


Also, as far as the WMS data logging. There are two versions out there, 80 and 95 MAF. I wonder if we will see both data logged?

RRRoamer

6505pony,

The tool is a funky looking thing. It looks like it was designed to allow you to get a ratched on the sensor from underneight with an extension, even though the sensor is mounted on the top part of the exhaust manifold. The rear sensors appear to have a standard hex, so a normal sensor wrench should get them off easy.

blackhat97,

When you do get a tuner, I can definitely recomment the X-calibrator 2. Very nice unit with very nice featuers.

f1-cobra

Here are the results of my attempt to datalog with a C&L intake with a 93 tune.

1) The ambiant air temperature for this test was 79F.

2) I forgot to check the inlet air temp at the start of the heat soak.

3) At the 4 minute mark, the inlet air temperature was 125F.

4) At the start of the 30 mph cruise, the temperatue was 136F.

5) At the end of one minute at 30 mph, the temperatue was 105F.

6) At the start of the 60 mph cruise, the inlet air temperature was 114F.

7) At the one minute mark at 60 mph, the inlet air temperatue was 85F.

8) I kept going a bit longer, and at the end of 1 1/2 minutes, the inlet air temperatue was 81F.

I couldn't keep the speed constant for the entire time, but those are the numbers that I came up with.