GT vs Bullitt Comparison
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Martimus and RCSignals, you are incorrect about my posts and comments. Find the post where I have attacked the Bullitt car or said it was inferior. You're picking on the wrong guy here. I have poked fun at some Bullitt owners for their proclivity to argue with all other GT owners, especially GT/CS owners who don't automatically say the Bullitt is better than their own cars. Check the posts and get your facts straight. It is because of posts like the ones above that I have written what I have. I've even said I like the Bullitt, I like George's Bullitt, I like all Mustangs. You however are exclusive and called me a Bling boy, I went along with it in good nature, but now I'm just tired of it.
is kidding with you because of your comments about supposed attacks from Bullitt owners and comments about you should know better than remark in a thread about Bulllitts.You don't have to look far for those posts from you.
That said the issues and 'attacks' have come from CS/GT owners in general, not from Bullitt owners.
Last edited by RCSignals; Apr 6, 2008 at 09:58 PM.
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Therefore, the "logic" is the same in both cases, except the Bullitt's "standard" timing map is a little more aggressive than a non-Bullitt GT's standard timing map, and backs off to a secondary timing map accordingly when 87 is burned, due to knock detection. The Bullitt engine also has increased airflow with the CAI, which probably accounts for a portion fo the 15 hp.
Most any engine (even with knock sensors) tuned for Premium will not readily adapt to burning regular fuel without problem.
But you of course are correct
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The logic is not the same. Most any engine tuned to run on regular will also burn premium without problem. It will not gain any advantage from it though.
Most any engine (even with knock sensors) tuned for Premium will not readily adapt to burning regular fuel without problem.
But you of course are correct
Most any engine (even with knock sensors) tuned for Premium will not readily adapt to burning regular fuel without problem.
But you of course are correct
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From: 'neath a cactus
I didn't realize your '05 was a V6, and in that case, I was clearly wrong makinfg that statement. It is interesting, however, that you bash the GT/CS and yet the very mods (visual) that make it such are the ones you made to your V6....
As to the 87 octane, I think it is you that needs a little more education on the tuning and mechanical aspects of these cars. The 87 rating for non-Bullit S197 GT's is a minimum rating, as you might discern from the context of the excerpt you quoted from the manual.
Octane detection would amount to a lab under the hood. The most advanced system do date in this respect is the new BMW M3's engine, that uses changes in the ignition systems induction to detect pre-ignition before it happens, but that is not the level of sophistication or complexity found in out Ford engines. The self adjusting timing on the Bullit (and other S197 GT's is a reaction of -preignition.
The fact is that the all the S197 GT's PCM's (Sapnish Oak) have multiple timing maps, and will use the most aggressive map as long as there is no pre-ignition detected, and this I know from talking to the tuners who've tuned my car (using both base SCT files and also the stock software in my car, which came with an unusually aggressive 29º ignition timing from the factory in the "aggressive" map).
So Ford saying that the Bullit's PCM has "octane detection" literally amounts to the PCM running an aggressive timing map as the default, and if knock is detected it backs off the timing, the same as the Spanish Oak has done so far on S197 GT's, except that the aggressive file is a little more aggressive, hence the 15 hp bump.
TMS is a great forum, but if you want to inject more specific technical information into your knowledge-base, I invite you to visit www.S197Forum.com
As to the 87 octane, I think it is you that needs a little more education on the tuning and mechanical aspects of these cars. The 87 rating for non-Bullit S197 GT's is a minimum rating, as you might discern from the context of the excerpt you quoted from the manual.
Octane detection would amount to a lab under the hood. The most advanced system do date in this respect is the new BMW M3's engine, that uses changes in the ignition systems induction to detect pre-ignition before it happens, but that is not the level of sophistication or complexity found in out Ford engines. The self adjusting timing on the Bullit (and other S197 GT's is a reaction of -preignition.
The fact is that the all the S197 GT's PCM's (Sapnish Oak) have multiple timing maps, and will use the most aggressive map as long as there is no pre-ignition detected, and this I know from talking to the tuners who've tuned my car (using both base SCT files and also the stock software in my car, which came with an unusually aggressive 29º ignition timing from the factory in the "aggressive" map).
So Ford saying that the Bullit's PCM has "octane detection" literally amounts to the PCM running an aggressive timing map as the default, and if knock is detected it backs off the timing, the same as the Spanish Oak has done so far on S197 GT's, except that the aggressive file is a little more aggressive, hence the 15 hp bump.
TMS is a great forum, but if you want to inject more specific technical information into your knowledge-base, I invite you to visit www.S197Forum.com
In reference to the timing mappings I'm not doubting that there are multiple timing maps but its curious why Ford doesn't advertise this fact for any Mustang but the Bullitt. Its also curious why Bamachips and Brenspeed and others write specific tunes for specific octanes and don't seem to readily exploint these multiple timing mappings. Hmm... maybe your tuners know more than Doug and Brent?
Oh and I've provled around S197Forum once or twice.... Heck I've had an account on that forum for nearly a year now! I don't post there cuz I don't find the site all that useful to me. Don_W is a great guy but I can read his exploits over on 2005stang.com. Thanks for the offer anyway!!
Last edited by Martimus; Apr 7, 2008 at 12:52 AM.
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From: 'neath a cactus
Martimus and RCSignals, you are incorrect about my posts and comments. Find the post where I have attacked the Bullitt car or said it was inferior. You're picking on the wrong guy here. I have poked fun at some Bullitt owners for their proclivity to argue with all other GT owners, especially GT/CS owners who don't automatically say the Bullitt is better than their own cars. Check the posts and get your facts straight. It is because of posts like the ones above that I have written what I have. I've even said I like the Bullitt, I like George's Bullitt, I like all Mustangs. You however are exclusive and called me a Bling boy, I went along with it in good nature, but now I'm just tired of it.
smilie is a jester... I do, however, need to get something off my chest. It seems like you're offended that some Bullitt owners don't like the GT/CS. Well I also sometimes find it offensive when GT/CS and Mustang owners in general rag on the Bullitt. Do I not have the right to be offended? I never start this
but you can bet yer bloomers that I'll defend this car when I see it being attacked! In any case I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt 2k7gtcs and I do apologize for my part in it!
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I'm not sure where we disagree here unless your just not referring to the badging inside as, well...badges?
Last edited by jsaylor; Apr 7, 2008 at 07:21 AM.
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Martimus,
If it was ribbing than no apology necessary. No hard feelings. Next time I'll learn to judge the ribbing I get better and be more careful about the ribbing I give. Sometimes in type it comes out a little different than intended. I guess I'll have to usemore.
But I think you can see that I've never said anything negative about the Bullitt if you check it, and I didn't like being lumped in with some GT/CS, SGT owners who give ya'll such crap about your cars. That's not me.
Gary
If it was ribbing than no apology necessary. No hard feelings. Next time I'll learn to judge the ribbing I get better and be more careful about the ribbing I give. Sometimes in type it comes out a little different than intended. I guess I'll have to use
more.But I think you can see that I've never said anything negative about the Bullitt if you check it, and I didn't like being lumped in with some GT/CS, SGT owners who give ya'll such crap about your cars. That's not me.
Gary
Last edited by 2k7gtcs; Apr 7, 2008 at 07:37 AM.
I Have No Life
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Wow, more mustang arguing than I have seen in a while (V6 vs GT rants). Just get in your cars and enjoy them. I don't care if your car has 120 hp or 1,000 hp. If it says Mustang (and is a Mustang) I like it! Now if only I could figure out why GT/CS and Bullitt owners (not all of you) don't realize the car is a GT with some mods. I'll sit here and wait to be flamed. 
Needs to be more Astony
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From: Volo, IL
Wow, more mustang arguing than I have seen in a while (V6 vs GT rants). Just get in your cars and enjoy them. I don't care if your car has 120 hp or 1,000 hp. If it says Mustang (and is a Mustang) I like it! Now if only I could figure out why GT/CS and Bullitt owners (not all of you) don't realize the car is a GT with some mods. I'll sit here and wait to be flamed.
+1!!
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From: Lost Angels
ok, Bullitt Guys and GT/CS guys, LISTEN UP...both our cars start life as Mustang GTs...nothing is added to the Bullitt that can't be added (or removed) to/from the GT/CS. We're just arguing preferences here. I think the Bullitt is cool, just a little "too" understated for my liking.
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From: 'neath a cactus
ok, Bullitt Guys and GT/CS guys, LISTEN UP...both our cars start life as Mustang GTs...nothing is added to the Bullitt that can't be added (or removed) to/from the GT/CS. We're just arguing preferences here. I think the Bullitt is cool, just a little "too" understated for my liking.
I don't think anyone is contesting that fact. To be honest that statement can be expanded well beyond just the Bullitt and GT/CS. The Shelby GT, Foose Stallion, Roush, Saleen, and most, but not all, special edition Mustangs have the exact same roots and at one time each moved across the Mustang assembly line before being retrofitted to become a Special Edition.
Whether the Mustang is understated (Bullitt) or over the top (GT/CS) the bottom line is that its still a Mustang! period!
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Yo Rob!!!
I don't think anyone is contesting that fact. To be honest that statement can be expanded well beyond just the Bullitt and GT/CS. The Shelby GT, Foose Stallion, Roush, Saleen, and most, but not all, special edition Mustangs have the exact same roots and at one time each moved across the Mustang assembly line before being retrofitted to become a Special Edition.
Whether the Mustang is understated (Bullitt) or over the top (GT/CS) the bottom line is that its still a Mustang! period!
I don't think anyone is contesting that fact. To be honest that statement can be expanded well beyond just the Bullitt and GT/CS. The Shelby GT, Foose Stallion, Roush, Saleen, and most, but not all, special edition Mustangs have the exact same roots and at one time each moved across the Mustang assembly line before being retrofitted to become a Special Edition.
Whether the Mustang is understated (Bullitt) or over the top (GT/CS) the bottom line is that its still a Mustang! period!
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I'm feelin' the LOOOVE!!!
Just instelled my Airaid and had a dynotune done at Fastlane....WOOOOHOOOO!
BTE, y'all remember that for all 07+ GT's Steeda has that Adaptive Tuning ($650, including their proprietary CARB certified CAI), which is essentially the same as the Bullit's: monitors several parameters (AFR, knock, etc), and advances the timing until it detecs knock, then backs off a bit.
Just instelled my Airaid and had a dynotune done at Fastlane....WOOOOHOOOO!
BTE, y'all remember that for all 07+ GT's Steeda has that Adaptive Tuning ($650, including their proprietary CARB certified CAI), which is essentially the same as the Bullit's: monitors several parameters (AFR, knock, etc), and advances the timing until it detecs knock, then backs off a bit.
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BTE, y'all remember that for all 07+ GT's Steeda has that Adaptive Tuning ($650, including their proprietary CARB certified CAI), which is essentially the same as the Bullit's: monitors several parameters (AFR, knock, etc), and advances the timing until it detecs knock, then backs off a bit.
What's a Bullit?
Last edited by RCSignals; Apr 10, 2008 at 08:37 PM.
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Yo Rob!!!
I don't think anyone is contesting that fact. To be honest that statement can be expanded well beyond just the Bullitt and GT/CS. The Shelby GT, Foose Stallion, Roush, Saleen, and most, but not all, special edition Mustangs have the exact same roots and at one time each moved across the Mustang assembly line before being retrofitted to become a Special Edition.
Whether the Mustang is understated (Bullitt) or over the top (GT/CS) the bottom line is that its still a Mustang! period!
I don't think anyone is contesting that fact. To be honest that statement can be expanded well beyond just the Bullitt and GT/CS. The Shelby GT, Foose Stallion, Roush, Saleen, and most, but not all, special edition Mustangs have the exact same roots and at one time each moved across the Mustang assembly line before being retrofitted to become a Special Edition.
Whether the Mustang is understated (Bullitt) or over the top (GT/CS) the bottom line is that its still a Mustang! period!