red pony

If you look at the sales brochures for the 2008 Mustang, inside the first page it says and I quote; " Highest Ranked Midsize Sporty Car in Initial Quality by J.D.Power and Associates " Then , in smaller print just to the right of the previous quote , it says , and I quote; " When it debuted in 1964, the Mustang spawned a new class of cars called pony cars - a segment Mustang has led ever since " -jdpower.com Trust that!

m05fastbackGT

So in other words, according to your logic. RDA exaggerated the results of their report, because Ford Motor Co. hired them to conduct an independent study, right. Not only is this totally ridiculous, but also absurd.

So just what did you expect them to do, conduct an independent study for free ?

Yeah, I'm real sure that a research company is going to expect it's employees to conduct countless hours of research upon a company's products along with interviewing perhaps up to hundreds of consumers of those products, all out of the goodness of their hearts.

Heck even JD.Power & Assoc. get compensated for their research in which if I'm not mistaken, didn't the Ford Mustang, Fusion, Focus, Taurus, Edge and Explorer, all rank #1 as the best in both overall quality and reliability last year. (2007-2008) And if I'm also not mistaken, didn't the 2008 F-150 rank #1 as the best truck in it's class for best in quality and reliability just recently.

Or was there also disparity in JD.Power's initial quality study as well. Links below


http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/06/f...al-quality-st/

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2007088




Seems to me, the only disparity that's taking place around here. Are your posts in which everytime somebody posts something positive towards Ford or the Mustang. You look for every opportunity or excuse in the book for discrediting the previous poster, by posting your negative remarks against Ford for it's supposed lack of quality.

Perhaps it's just me, but it sure seems as though no matter what Ford does to improve the quality of it's products, you look for every reason to criticize their progress for not being up to par.

So my question is this, why do you continue to own a 2005 Mustang GT, if you don't agree with how that product is built ? Not only do I not get it, along with MBK, but it also doesn't make any logical sense either.


At any rate, I'm really not trying to be a wiseass or anything. As I've tried to be understanding, patient and supportive, but this time around, you've completely lost me on this one Jason.

m05fastbackGT

****, it figures that I only have 2005, 2006 and 2009 brochures for the Mustang, Rich

red pony

I imagine it would say the same thing in the '09 brochure-same car and all.

Zastava_101

I guess that's a lie since Barracuda was first pony car and went on sale 2 weeks before Mustang.

Black GT500

Hello, the term is "PONY CAR" derived from the "MUSTANG" both Equine. Nothing whatever to do with FISH!

Pony car

The pony car is a class of automobile launched and inspired by the Ford Mustang in 1964. It describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image.


Mustang, launched on April 17 1964, The extended model year sales totaled 618,812 Mustangs.

Defining the class
The Mustang provided the template for the new class of automobiles.

The requirements were therefore set:

* Attractive, sporty styling
* Affordable base price
* Extensive options, including six-cylinder and V8 engines
* Aggressive, youth-oriented marketing and advertising.

Pony car competitors
Despite the immediate success of the Mustang, many (including some within Ford) feared that the bubble would soon burst, and other manufacturers were relatively slow to respond. The first competitor was the Plymouth Barracuda, which actually went on sale on April 1 1964, about two weeks before the Mustang. The Barracuda was not a direct response to the Mustang, which had not yet debuted (although Chrysler was certainly aware of the upcoming model), but a low-cost way to expand the sporty appeal of the Valiant. Chrysler's precarious financial situation meant that the Barracuda was compromised, with insufficient distinction from the Valiant and styling that drew mixed reactions; its sales were a fraction of the Mustang's. Some mentioned that if the Barracuda was successful, as well as the similar fastback Rambler Tarpon introduced as planned before the Mustang, the term for this class of automobile might have been "fish car," rather than "pony car. However, the Mustang, unlike the Barracuda, featured a completely unique body style from the car on which it was based (the Ford Falcon), making it the first true pony car.

Zastava_101

I know all that, but that still didn't change the fact that Barracuda and Mustang were the same class and Barracuda went on sale before Mustang.

Black GT500

Apparently, what you know and what you said are not the same thing...
Perhaps you were mistaken? The Plymouth Barracuda actually going on sale on April 1 1964, about two weeks before the Mustang, is truly irrelevant here.

FYI This is not what you said initially!



You typed that you guessed red pony's quote was a lie. When in FACT it is NOT a lie. The Mustang indeed spawned a new class of cars called (drum roll please) "pony cars", NOT fish cars!!!

Furthermore, the Mustang has indeed led the pony car segment ever since!

Zastava_101

From my understanding I though they wanted to say that Mustang was a first pony car, which it wasn't. Mustang did inspire pony cars, but it wasn't the first one.

m05fastbackGT

Although the Barracuda went on sale before the Mustang, Plymouth didn't refer to the Barracuda as a Pony car. But instead marketed the car as a sportier version of it's Valiant. Therefore IMO, there's a huge difference between a Fish Car over a true Pony Car.

red pony

It was a slant 6 valiant with different emblems on it --- a god-forsaken valiant! The 273 V8 cars were few and far between... which would help its image but were just not that popular even in stick form . My next door neighbor years ago bought one brand new. 2 years later he traded it in siting what a rattle-trap it was! And he was a Mopar guy! Besides, the barracuda NEVER led the pony car sector...NEVER!!

Zastava_101

Ok, I get it, original Barracuda was a crap, but that still doesn't change the fact that it came out before Mustang.

red pony

Just because you may start a race on the pole doesn't mean you will lead the first lap! especially when Plymouth came to a gun fight with a knife!

Black GT500

Does that two weeks really bring anything relevant to this conversation?

Two weeks, that is like arguing which twin was born first...
The first one is born deformed and dies as a child, the other is healthy, flourishes and goes on to become president of the USA, how does which one popped out first matter?

Unfortunately the Barracuda stood alone on styling, it just said Valiant all over it. That didn't lead to where Plymouth had hoped it would go. Valiant stood for economical, family type transportation, which was not very exciting, nor youthfully appealing. In other words, the image didn't come off. The Challenger, Barracuda, and Javelin were all canceled after 1974.
Plymouth sold 23,443 1964 Barracudas (126,538 Mustangs sold in the same time frame).

On the other hand, the Mustang was an immediate success! Although it was based on the platform of the Falcon, it had a unique body (offered as a hardtop coupé and a convertible) with distinctive, "long hood, short deck" proportions. It carried an attractive base price of $2,368 which included bucket seats, carpeting, floor shift, sport steering wheel and full wheel covers. The Mustang also had an extensive option list. A V8 Mustang with all available options would cost about 60% more than a basic Six, which made it an extremely profitable for Ford. While sales were strong throughout the end of the 1960s, the greater value of the pony cars was in bringing buyers, particularly the crucial youth market, into the fold. The Mustang provided the template for a new class of automobiles, the Pony Car. The Ford Mustang has been manufactured and sold every year from 1964~2010, Over 9 million Mustangs sold during 46 uninterrupted successful Mustang sales years.
Ford sold 618,812 extended model year Mustangs.

Seriously that two week distinction is less than meaningless.

Zastava_101

Lets take this step by step.

Were Mustang and Barracuda the same class back then? Yes.

Which one came out first? Barracuda.

Why are we making a simple thing so difficult?

Yes, Mustang was more successful than Barracuda, but Barracuda came out first.

According to your statement F-Series should've been the first post-war truck, right? Even though it went on sale in 1948, a full year after Chevy 3100. But F-Series was a lot more successful.

Knight Rider

yeah i get your point zoran, but the good thing is, Mustang is remembered but Fishies are not.

"Fish are friends, not food."

m05fastbackGT

Black, I agree with everything you've stated in your post. With the exception of this quote


IMO, the Cuda along with the Challenger finally shed it's economical, family type transportation/non youthful appealing image of the Valiant, in 1970. As both the Challenger and Cuda, were finally recognized as Pony Cars in their own right. For their new body styles were much more aggressive and appealing while also taking inspiration from, and incorporating the Mustang's long hood, and short rear deck.

But by the time 1974 came along, it was apparant that nether were turning enough of a profit for Chrysler, due to poor sales. More than likely due to the Arab Oil Embargo Crisis along with stricter federal emission regulations. Therefore ending production, as a direct result.

m05fastbackGT

Zoran, Mustang and Barracuda were not in the same class. As I mentioned in my previous post, Plymouth did not market nor refer to the Barracuda as a Pony Car, but was nothing more than a sportier version of the Valiant. Where as the Mustang didn't resemble the Falcon in anyway, as Mustang had it's own unique styling and body. Therefore, Mustang became known as the original Pony car, as a direct result.

Zastava_101

Actually Chrysler was planing 1975 Challenger and Barracuda, but I think they run out of money.

Some of clay models.

Knight Rider

my eyes!