Only posting this because I'm seeking help on something that I haven't been able to find in a thread anywhere else with anyone experiencing the same or similar problem that I had.

I was driving to work last night when all of a sudden my car basically went into a limp mode, sounded like it was running on 4 cylinders, would not accelerate at all, nearly died, and then 10 seconds later, right back to normal, like nothing happened. After that weird hiccup I was able to go to work just fine with no more problems. Got off of work a little while ago and checked for codes and only 1 pops up: P0022 - Camshaft Position 'A' Timing Over-Retarded Bank 2. Checked oil (which I just changed 500 miles ago), it's full. Reading good oil pressure. Inspected everything under the hood that I could without taking everything apart; it all seemed good. Once again, drove the car home with 0 issues.

I've got 3 ideas, but want some opinions on them. 1. VCT Solenoid. 2. Timing Components or Cam Phasers. 3. A wiring problem. Now because I've been having problems with my pioneer radio, random fuses blowing, on and off A/C and heater problems, periodical surging idle (90% of the time this occurs is with A/C or heat on), and blowing through 4 ignition coils in barely 2 years, I'm seriously leaning towards a wiring issue. Something has got to be messed up in the harness. Or maybe it's the ECU or PCM?? If it is wiring related, how should I go about tracking down this issue? Where would I start?

I've gotten this code twice now in the time I've owned my car. First time, the car was just down on power and went back to normal after turning the car off and on again. This time is something I've never experienced, and very weird that it went back to normal like nothing happened literally 10 seconds later. Any thoughts, opinions, help would be very appreciated.

 

Sounds like the VCT solenoid or wiring thereto is giving you problems. However, that's at best a complete and utter guess. As you mention it could be the timing has jumped (but it won't go back if that's the case...? ) or the guides/tensioners are not happy, phaser is bad/getting locked on that pin... could be a lot of things. Including yes, the engine computer or more likely the SJB you ask me. And it could be the oil, or something got in it, but I'm sure you haven't missed any oil changes and also run good oil and filters, yes? Yes. Silly me, forget I said that.

Then... you mention all that other mess going on... has your alternator been replaced/checked? Perhaps it's overvolting the system and causing mayhem... or it's periodically cuttin' out and causing mayhem... Also check all grounds. All. Never know if there's something trying like the dickens (or is that 'Dickens'? ) to get back to ground and can't get there, so it goes... well, 'elsewhere'... um... causin' mayhem.

Startin' to sounds like an Everycondition Insurance commercial.. (Extra bonus cookie points for figurin' that obfuscationary naming convention! )

Which brings me to cleanliness overall of everything battery/alternator wiring in general. Is it all clean/free from corrosion?

Also... oddity, but comes to mind because of a particular incident I had Back When(tm)... check your fans for proper functioning. They spin without dragging. Both the HVAC and the radiator one. You'd be surprised. Just sayin'.

ALL of this, however, is probably going to need a proper scan tool to get live data and such to really determine what it is rather than shotgun this thing with parts, time and money with no real 'yep, that'll do it' in mind. Sure, some of the parts is cheap and easy enough (the solenoid maybe) but some of them... ain't.

Hope that helps. Please do inform if you figure it out!

 

Gonna check wiring first and live data. May do a data log and send it to Lito to see if anything is off. I shouldn't even care much considering the car is acting like it's perfect now. But what if it happens again? What if I get stuck in the middle of a two lane road this time on a foggy morning and someone doesn't see until last minute and now my car is totaled? Crazy outlandish scenario, but something that I think about with an issue this unpredictable. The crappy thing, as has all the other problems I've had in the ownership of my car been, the problem could be related to a number of things. And I really don't know where to start other then take everything apart and start inspecting everything. Firstly I'll start with data logging. Update if I find anything.

 

First thing I thought of after reading it was alternator, but Houtex nailed it, could be one of many things. Reading these forums at night on grave shift has really edumacated me on a few "quirky" things with the S197's. Yes, please let us know what you find, may happen to someone else.

 

Update... and not a good one:

Car will now not drive. Did the same thing as before but now it's stuck like that. Sounds like crap, like it's running on only 4 cylinders. Won't accelerate. Feels like it's maybe got 50hp. It's bad. No codes. Everything in engine bay is connected. Battery and alternator voltage are fine (high 12s on battery high 13s on alternator). With no codes and everything visually looking fine, I have no idea what to do. Try a compression test? Start taking the engine apart and see if there is internal failure? This is my daily driver and now I am out of a car.

 

Daily driver? Yeah... well, that's a problem. You need to acquire a beater. Hit up cragglelist or visagetome marketplace, you're gonna be out that car for a bit, I'm thinkin'... I'd recommend a clapped out Honda or Toyota that still runs, they're reliable easy to fix cars and the engines/transmissions don't much destroy themselves if they're properly maintained.

Or... as it happens... a Dodge Caliber (or something of that platform, Jeep Compass, Jeep Patriot) is actually just as easy, though those CVTs will absolutely brick the car and you can just throw it away and get another. Also heater cores are suck, but I don't care much where I live, hardly need it.

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Feels like four cylinders? Weeell... that sounds like the timing just broke so bad it killed the one side... or possibly worse...

Again that's a *GUESS* from waaay over here, though. The compression test wouldn't be a bad idea, but I'm thinking it's just going to show that one or two or all cylinders on that side don't have the compression. You'll want to check the other side of course for comparison. Also compression testers don't come with the proper adapter, you need a 16mm one IIRC, so go hunt that down if you get one.

You can pull the valve covers off and see what's going on in there. But I don't think that's gonna show much, unless there's timing guide spit all up in there (which did happen on my right side bank when it explodied.)

The 'easy' course of action is to pull the timing cover, because I'm pretty sure there lies your problem. Jumped a tooth or sheared teeth or the phaser's done... in any event you've got 185K on the engine, and that's just enough for them to just explode timing bits, unfortunately.

Wish I had better recommendations. And the thing is...that motor may be done. If the cam wasn't turning in time and the engine kept running when the cam stopped, you've killed a valve or two, possibly killed a cylinder and/or piston, and with that busted the combustion chamber of the head, which can't be fixed.

Or I'm doom and gloom and you'll be able to just pop a new set of chains, sprockets, phasers, guides, tensioners, follwers, lash adjusters and go on in life like I was lucky enough to have done. You'll have to do it yourself because a shop simply won't, they'll insist on replacing the engine for cost effectiveness and warranty purposes. And I don't blame them because after doing the job... yeah, no way if I ran a shop I'd allow it. I'd charge more than the actual engine swap. But that's me the Traumatized One.

I sincerely hope it's better news than what I'm speculating. Please do let us know, I'd be interested to hear what happened and use that for informational banks. Good dang luck on that thing.

 

The compression test may do more damage then good, as you have to spin the motor over to get compression. If it was me, I would probably pull the timing first, then the valve covers second. If all that goes well, then actually turning the engine over may not cause any more damage. If an intake or exhaust valve is hanging down, having the piston hit it anymore then necessary would be a good thing. Good thinking Houtex

 

Thanks for the replies, BRD and Houtex. And yes, I am DEFINITELY going to be looking for a daily driver that's more reliable and can handle these awful Tennessee roads a little bit better.

I did not do a compression test as I've read, like you said, it may do more harm then good in this state.

Both valve covers already came off. The valvetrain at least (haven't dug deeper into the engine yet) looks brand new. Super clean other than all the oil of course. I mean, I do change my oil every 3500 miles lol. One thing I found however, was the screens on one of the VVT solenoids were completely torn up. Don't know if that little of a problem can cause such a big mess, but I've read that it can.

I only have the one code: P0022. Everything I have read so far says that the fix is replacing the VVT solenoids. So I am doing that first, grabbing a set and HOPEFULLY putting them in tonight. If that doesn't fix the problem, then my dad and I will take off the timing cover and inspecting everything. Worse comes to worse I gotta spend a few hundred dollars on a whole timing kit. Praying to God that's not the case, but time will tell.

Will give an update after the new VVT solenoids are in. Thanks guys.

 

I would crack open the timing covers and at least look before you go putting any more rotation on that engine. The VVT solenoids may be a moot point if one side is jacked up. A visual inspection really doesn't tell you much from the top side of the head because it's hard to tell if that cam is still rotating or not. All that top end of the head may appear fine, but underneath could be bent valves, etc. Good luck, and hopefully it's just something simple.

 

VVT solenoids did the trick. Still replacing the timing parts after tires.

 

I just ordered 2 wheels from American Muscle last night that were on "open box" since someone returned them and they said are still in perfect condition. AMR charcoal 18x8, and got them at about 33% off, so couldn't pass it up since I decided those are the wheels I want. Once I decide if I want to stagger or not, I'll order 2 more. Glad it was only the sensors, coulda got really expensive really quick.

 

Whew. I'm glad. So very glad.