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2013 RR Boss 302 #2342
Joined: March 6, 2012
Posts: 11,801
Likes: 2,412
From: Lancaster, PA
2013 RR Boss 302 #2342
Joined: March 6, 2012
Posts: 11,801
Likes: 2,412
From: Lancaster, PA
Member
Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Nope, I just like cars. Theres alot of GM hate though, this is my first Ford. But I've had nothing but praise for all of my GM's. However my newest was an 2002, and my moms 03 Aurora was a grand pile o' ****
A Man Just Needs Some....
Joined: April 9, 2011
Posts: 17,125
Likes: 34
From: Louisiana
GM or Ford. There's really no argument. They both make some great vehicles and they also make some serious garbage. It just depends which you like more. Kinda like Mcdonalds, Burger King, or Wendy's. It's just which one you prefer because they are all garbage. Recalls don't prove anything. Honestly I would love an AMC sports car nowadays that would just borrow parts from both and put them in a Chrysler body. Lol
Post *****
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 19,953
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
The issue is the coverup pre-banko pre-initial stock offering of the "new" GM. Which makes company exec's, the corrupt politicians esp incl hobama (that screwed the vendors, suppliers and bondholders with their taxpayer funded bailout for the benefit of the union); and the union boy's UAW Trust; morally & legally culpable for damages and deaths.
Maybe the UAW should have looked that gift horse in the mouth after all to see if it had any teeth left.
According to a new report, more than 300 people have been killed in crashes of General Motors cars that have been recently recalled. That's more than ten times the number of fatalities GM has reported. According to the study by Friedman Research, 303 people lost their lives due to defective ignitions that could cause cars to stall and not deploy their airbags.
GM claims the recall, which affects 1.6 million cars worldwide, has only taken a dozen lives. Hundreds of complaints have been filed about the safety issue, and GM admits knowing about the safety issue since 2001.
General Motors knew about it going back as far as 2001. They had internal investigations that showed that it was a problem. They had complaints from fatalities, families who saw their cars stall, and they reported that they met with institutional silence from GM and from dealers in response to their complaints.
"I think what's really extraordinary is that GM in 2007 actually changed this ignition switch because they realized it was defective and never initiated a recall, not for another seven years." (Frank Hammer is a retired General Motors employee, former president and chairman of Local 909 in Warren, Michigan)
Critics have questioned why it's taken so long for GM and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to act. The Department of Justice has launched a criminal investigation into the matter.
GM claims the recall, which affects 1.6 million cars worldwide, has only taken a dozen lives. Hundreds of complaints have been filed about the safety issue, and GM admits knowing about the safety issue since 2001.
General Motors knew about it going back as far as 2001. They had internal investigations that showed that it was a problem. They had complaints from fatalities, families who saw their cars stall, and they reported that they met with institutional silence from GM and from dealers in response to their complaints.
"I think what's really extraordinary is that GM in 2007 actually changed this ignition switch because they realized it was defective and never initiated a recall, not for another seven years." (Frank Hammer is a retired General Motors employee, former president and chairman of Local 909 in Warren, Michigan)
Critics have questioned why it's taken so long for GM and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to act. The Department of Justice has launched a criminal investigation into the matter.
A Man Just Needs Some....
Joined: April 9, 2011
Posts: 17,125
Likes: 34
From: Louisiana
That's not the issue. The issue is the coverup pre-banko pre-initial stock offering of the "new" GM. Which makes company exec's, the corrupt politicians esp incl hobama (that screwed the vendors, suppliers and bondholders with their taxpayer funded bailout for the benefit of the union); and the union boy's UAW Trust; morally & legally culpable for damages and deaths. Maybe the UAW should have looked that gift horse in the mouth after all to see if it had any teeth left.
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Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 19,953
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
You keep harping on the bailout, UAW, and the Ho. What does any of this have to do with the recall? Looks to me like ignition switch issues that were used widely in the GM lineup. Accidents caused by this are of course unfortunate but very few and far between. One or two isolated cases that are related to the same part will not cause a widespread recall. So many Exploders flipped and killed people in the 90's that Ford had to finally recall all of them and then hang the blame on Firestone which really wasn't firestones fault either. Recalls happen but not until law suits arise. Nobody is gonna spend this kinda money unless they are looking to pay out even more if they don't fix the problem. Bailout, UAW, Hobama, has nothing to do with a faulty part installed. Probably the same switches Toyota used in their recalled cars.
A Man Just Needs Some....
Joined: April 9, 2011
Posts: 17,125
Likes: 34
From: Louisiana
Sure it does Al. The coverup of known failures - for years - resulting in deaths - has opened up a legal can of worms that involves current and previous exec's, all of your corrupt union boys, and the politicos that feed them. But go right ahead and keep being a fanboy of murderers.
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Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 19,953
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
The UAW only is only over the workforce. The guys who go to work in uniforms every day. Decision making, work orders, quotas, parts used, and all other decision making is done by suits or khakis who are not affiliated with UAW. The UAW is not getting sued for installing unsafe parts. You really think those switches could have been deemed dangerous by an installer?What are they covering up? If there are any "murderers" in the bunch, it's GM's legal team for not responding sooner. It's amazing that you could single out a parts installer or even more the UAW. Hell I worked for 10 years in a GM service department. Is it my fault too?
GM and Chrysler owed billions to a trust fund they had created to provide UAW members with gold-plated retiree health benefits. In bankruptcy, these funds should have been paid proportional to other unsecured creditors. Instead, while the Administration paid other creditors only a fraction of what they were owed, it gave the UAW trust fund assets worth tens of billions—including partial ownership of both companies.
Had this been disclosed by 09 (8yrs after we now know GM knew about the fault), and had a normal Chapter 11 been followed (vs a govt handout to UAW), the bankruptcy judge would have made provisions for settlements. Even without voluntary disclosure, the bankruptcy court process is extremely thorough to determine all claims and probably would have uncovered and included pending customer complaints (and deaths).
As it is now, a lengthy legal battle has begun which involves all parties - incl the UAW Trust (as owner) - as to who had knowledge, and more to my point in this thread, who will bear the financial burden of the many litigants (vehicle owners and shareholders). Owners of the company are the ones who pay the settlement. And since this was a government contrived banko - instead of a normal chapter 11 with YEARS of established case history - old GM and new GM are both deeply enjoined in culpability with no established case history. Hence, criminal responsibility aside, civil financial responsibility will be hashed out in the courts and at this point appears to have resurrected old GM. New GM shareholders are suing due to the cover-up since many (most) would not have bought shares with such a liability being carried over.
So government involvement has yet again demonstrated their incompetence through the 'law of unintended consequences'.
Which is why I said:
Maybe the UAW should have looked that gift horse in the mouth after all to see if it had any teeth left.
Last edited by cdynaco; May 23, 2014 at 03:41 PM.
A Man Just Needs Some....
Joined: April 9, 2011
Posts: 17,125
Likes: 34
From: Louisiana
If in fact they are accountable for a percentage of ownership, they still won't be responsible directly for liabilities. But as part owner of course they will have to pay out also. The UAW may have one office in the corporate headquarters but I doubt they have a seat in the boardroom except during negotiations. Law suits against the company will be settled by the company and as part owners, the UAW will just have to fork over their fair share. Partner/slaves is what they are. We are represented by the USW here and our checks are signed by the company, not the union. We have one union office on sight with one representative. That's it. The business end is controlled solely by the company. Only labor decisions require any input from the unions.
Yes GM screwed up. If the UAW knew about a present danger, they screwed up too. I'm willing to bet the UAW was kept out of the loop until the legal team figured out how much it was going to cost them. Shareholding and controlling interest are split up pretty well I'm thinking. But maybe I'm wrong about that point. I couldn't imagine that GM would allow any controlling interest by the UAW other than labor.
Yes GM screwed up. If the UAW knew about a present danger, they screwed up too. I'm willing to bet the UAW was kept out of the loop until the legal team figured out how much it was going to cost them. Shareholding and controlling interest are split up pretty well I'm thinking. But maybe I'm wrong about that point. I couldn't imagine that GM would allow any controlling interest by the UAW other than labor.
Post *****
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 19,953
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
If in fact they are accountable for a percentage of ownership, they still won't be responsible directly for liabilities. But as part owner of course they will have to pay out also. The UAW may have one office in the corporate headquarters but I doubt they have a seat in the boardroom except during negotiations. Law suits against the company will be settled by the company and as part owners, the UAW will just have to fork over their fair share. Partner/slaves is what they are. We are represented by the USW here and our checks are signed by the company, not the union. We have one union office on sight with one representative. That's it. The business end is controlled solely by the company. Only labor decisions require any input from the unions.
Yes GM screwed up. If the UAW knew about a present danger, they screwed up too. I'm willing to bet the UAW was kept out of the loop until the legal team figured out how much it was going to cost them. Shareholding and controlling interest are split up pretty well I'm thinking. But maybe I'm wrong about that point. I couldn't imagine that GM would allow any controlling interest by the UAW other than labor.
Yes GM screwed up. If the UAW knew about a present danger, they screwed up too. I'm willing to bet the UAW was kept out of the loop until the legal team figured out how much it was going to cost them. Shareholding and controlling interest are split up pretty well I'm thinking. But maybe I'm wrong about that point. I couldn't imagine that GM would allow any controlling interest by the UAW other than labor.
But I think the larger financial wildcard at this point is how the courts handle GM's knowingly committing criminal fraud (cover-up) before and during the begging for a government bailout. Which I believe negates any bankruptcy protection for old GM (since this was a contrived bankruptcy vs normal Chapter 11 with case law like I said), and therefore could enjoin all assets transferred from old GM to new GM. (They were transferred improperly since all the liabilities were not disclosed with the cover-up.) And then how far does criminal fraud spill over in determining civil settlements for millions of GM shareholders (individuals, institutions, pensions...).
Last edited by cdynaco; May 23, 2014 at 04:14 PM.
A Man Just Needs Some....
Joined: April 9, 2011
Posts: 17,125
Likes: 34
From: Louisiana
Naturally settlements for the victims will be paid out through the class actions (which of course does not bring loved ones back to life). But I think the larger financial wildcard at this point is how the courts handle GM's knowingly committing criminal fraud (cover-up) before and during the begging for a government bailout. Which I believe negates any bankruptcy protection for old GM (since this was a contrived bankruptcy vs normal Chapter 11 with case law like I said), and therefore could enjoin all assets transferred from old GM to new GM. (They were transferred improperly since all the liabilities were not disclosed with the cover-up.) And then how far does criminal fraud spill over into civil settlements for millions of GM shareholders (individuals, institutions, pensions...).
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Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 19,953
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
But you pinned the UAW way before you even pinned GM. I can't agree with you that the UAW would be the culprit of this coverup. They don't control this aspect of the business. Just blame GM as a whole along with all its shareholders then. Hell it's just as much the US governments issue if not more that a union. I know your hatred for the fat cat union bosses but I think their hands might be clean on this one. Sure they might be guilty of worse but I don't think they are guilty of this.
https://themustangsource.com/f649/ra...6/#post6806659
And again, I stated maybe uaw should have considered that 'gift of ownership' a little closer before jumping for joy that they got (stole) money that belonged to vendors, suppliers, bondholders - who LEGALLY have precedent for their priority position in a C11 settlement.
Last edited by cdynaco; May 23, 2014 at 04:28 PM.
