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12/1/11, 02:19 PM
#101
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Originally Posted by Wolfsburg
Okay. "Retro" or not has nothing to do with it. These are just ugly cars and in fact, I would still call these concepts "retro" with the hips, c-scoops, "scowling" front end, etc. Plenty of Mustang cues present, but are just off the mark. I hate the clunky, blocky, heavy look with the Urkel-inspired belt line that some people seem to want to embrace. The Mustang needs to look like the Pony car it is-lean, simple and light on it's feet and not like a big, overwrought, hulking bruiser. I cringe when people call the Mustang a "muscle car" since the term so rarely applies to the Mustang. If I had to choose, the silver concept would be the less objectionable of the two.
The following is purely subjective and I know there will be plenty that will disagree:
I think Mustangs stopped looking really good by '70 and certainly by '73. Plain and simple.
For me the Mustang II is a great example of a Mustang that technically looked like a Mustang with plenty of classic, "retro" cues, but was just "off" aesthetically.
To my eye, Fox bodies have no aesthetically pleasing elements to them at all (about as boxy and '80s generic as you can get) but I think they were the last and most recent example of the true, pure "spirit" of the Mustang. They were light, small, and sported excellent performance for the time with that little 5.0.
SN95s were a great aesthetic improvement at the time, but still were never anything that excited me in that regard. I should say that performance-wise, I respect the SN95s.
When the '05 S197 came around, I was elated that the Mustang once again looked like a Mustang. It was bigger and heavier than I'd like but it looked the best any Mustang had looked since the '70s.
Personally, I really hope the silly overused "retro" term goes away. It either looks like a Mustang or it doesn't. If people insist that "retro" continue to be used, I want the Mustang to be as "retro" as the Porsche 911.
To be sure, these concepts have Mustang elements I like but overall just miss the mark.
The following is purely subjective and I know there will be plenty that will disagree:
I think Mustangs stopped looking really good by '70 and certainly by '73. Plain and simple.
For me the Mustang II is a great example of a Mustang that technically looked like a Mustang with plenty of classic, "retro" cues, but was just "off" aesthetically.
To my eye, Fox bodies have no aesthetically pleasing elements to them at all (about as boxy and '80s generic as you can get) but I think they were the last and most recent example of the true, pure "spirit" of the Mustang. They were light, small, and sported excellent performance for the time with that little 5.0.
SN95s were a great aesthetic improvement at the time, but still were never anything that excited me in that regard. I should say that performance-wise, I respect the SN95s.
When the '05 S197 came around, I was elated that the Mustang once again looked like a Mustang. It was bigger and heavier than I'd like but it looked the best any Mustang had looked since the '70s.
Personally, I really hope the silly overused "retro" term goes away. It either looks like a Mustang or it doesn't. If people insist that "retro" continue to be used, I want the Mustang to be as "retro" as the Porsche 911.
To be sure, these concepts have Mustang elements I like but overall just miss the mark.
2/21/12, 11:00 AM
#102
Calgon Take Me Away!
http://blog.americanmuscle.com/hot-o...ept-rendering/
Check out the blog I posted. Vote whether you think it's hot, not, or whatever.
Check out the blog I posted. Vote whether you think it's hot, not, or whatever.
2/23/12, 05:05 PM
#103
Legacy TMS Member
Notice apprently Mustangs were on hiatus from 1979 to 1993 according to Fords own revisionist history in those commercials.
2/24/12, 01:03 PM
#104
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I question if Ford will lose a huge costumer base if the car is too modern? I personally like the idea of them doing something new. If people don't like it they can go back and style it closer to the 05-14 cars.
The one thing I noticed, perhaps it is just coincidence is that the Mustang started moving upscale when they started the retro styling. Perhaps the Mustang is now a car marketed to aging baby boomers with more disposable income compared to the average 18-35 year old. Ford's new compacts are probably going to be marketed to the youth segment.
The one thing I noticed, perhaps it is just coincidence is that the Mustang started moving upscale when they started the retro styling. Perhaps the Mustang is now a car marketed to aging baby boomers with more disposable income compared to the average 18-35 year old. Ford's new compacts are probably going to be marketed to the youth segment.
2/29/12, 03:36 PM
#105
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Where else would that traditionalist customer base go? Yeah, they will grumble because the 2015 won't be a quasi design reproduction of some earlier Stang, but the other pony car options would be potentially worse: Camaro with the ignominy of an IRS, the living-too-large Challenger (also despoiled with a modern rear suspension) or perhaps the Hyundai Genesis Coupe (ain't even Amurican).
That said, while the 2015 will be decidedly modern and maybe a touch more global in design, it will still be very much a Mustang that will likely be far superior in capabilities than the current car.
As for market placement, I could see the Mustang going slightly more upscale, but not much. Rather, I see the economies of using a global shared platform and other componentry, plus greater sales numbers from overseas markets would allow higher end materials, features and engineering at the same price as today's rather bespoke Mustang platform. I think Ford may shrivel the bottom line Mustangs a bit and fill that with a FWD base coupe of some sort, but otherwise, not too much market niche shift.
If there is a big shift, it would be the addition a neo Cougar over at Lincoln on a stretched Mustang platform, sort of a similar relationship between the Nissan Z car and the Infiniti G Coupe. Lincoln is desperate for some signs of life in its lineup and a gentleman's pony car/coupe would certainly help that cause.
That said, while the 2015 will be decidedly modern and maybe a touch more global in design, it will still be very much a Mustang that will likely be far superior in capabilities than the current car.
As for market placement, I could see the Mustang going slightly more upscale, but not much. Rather, I see the economies of using a global shared platform and other componentry, plus greater sales numbers from overseas markets would allow higher end materials, features and engineering at the same price as today's rather bespoke Mustang platform. I think Ford may shrivel the bottom line Mustangs a bit and fill that with a FWD base coupe of some sort, but otherwise, not too much market niche shift.
If there is a big shift, it would be the addition a neo Cougar over at Lincoln on a stretched Mustang platform, sort of a similar relationship between the Nissan Z car and the Infiniti G Coupe. Lincoln is desperate for some signs of life in its lineup and a gentleman's pony car/coupe would certainly help that cause.
2/29/12, 11:21 PM
#106
GTR Member
Where else would that traditionalist customer base go? Yeah, they will grumble because the 2015 won't be a quasi design reproduction of some earlier Stang, but the other pony car options would be potentially worse: Camaro with the ignominy of an IRS, the living-too-large Challenger (also despoiled with a modern rear suspension) or perhaps the Hyundai Genesis Coupe (ain't even Amurican).
That said, while the 2015 will be decidedly modern and maybe a touch more global in design, it will still be very much a Mustang that will likely be far superior in capabilities than the current car.
As for market placement, I could see the Mustang going slightly more upscale, but not much. Rather, I see the economies of using a global shared platform and other componentry, plus greater sales numbers from overseas markets would allow higher end materials, features and engineering at the same price as today's rather bespoke Mustang platform. I think Ford may shrivel the bottom line Mustangs a bit and fill that with a FWD base coupe of some sort, but otherwise, not too much market niche shift.
If there is a big shift, it would be the addition a neo Cougar over at Lincoln on a stretched Mustang platform, sort of a similar relationship between the Nissan Z car and the Infiniti G Coupe. Lincoln is desperate for some signs of life in its lineup and a gentleman's pony car/coupe would certainly help that cause.
That said, while the 2015 will be decidedly modern and maybe a touch more global in design, it will still be very much a Mustang that will likely be far superior in capabilities than the current car.
As for market placement, I could see the Mustang going slightly more upscale, but not much. Rather, I see the economies of using a global shared platform and other componentry, plus greater sales numbers from overseas markets would allow higher end materials, features and engineering at the same price as today's rather bespoke Mustang platform. I think Ford may shrivel the bottom line Mustangs a bit and fill that with a FWD base coupe of some sort, but otherwise, not too much market niche shift.
If there is a big shift, it would be the addition a neo Cougar over at Lincoln on a stretched Mustang platform, sort of a similar relationship between the Nissan Z car and the Infiniti G Coupe. Lincoln is desperate for some signs of life in its lineup and a gentleman's pony car/coupe would certainly help that cause.
I do agree, though, that greater economies of scale should mean a higher-quality Mustang for a similar price. I'd like to think so, at least.
There's been (unofficial) talk of a Lincoln coupe spun off the next-gen Stang before, although it's gone very quiet on that front. Still, it'd help keep the Flat Rock plant busy now that the Mazda 6 isn't built there anymore. Could Lincoln call it a Cougar? I suspect it doesn't really fall into their marketing strategy to call it such, although there are still rumours Chrysler could bring out a 'Cuda.......so anything's possible.
3/3/12, 03:46 PM
#107
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I wonder how many sales per year Ford needs from the mustang to justify building it? I have a bad feeling the mustang will develope into a low volume halo car like the Corvette
3/3/12, 06:23 PM
#108
Cobra R Member
Originally Posted by 97GT03SVT
I wonder how many sales per year Ford needs from the mustang to justify building it? I have a bad feeling the mustang will develope into a low volume halo car like the Corvette
3/4/12, 07:04 AM
#109
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Take it "a little more upscale" and you are in Corvette territory. When was the last time a Corvette model sold 100K units? Though you may choose to rationalize it--a better product, more upscale, more performance car, etc. the escalating cost is a big factor in the decline of Mustang sales. With the demise of the GT, the Mustang is the halo car for Ford. Hence a 650-HP, $60K, GT500. Don't be surprised if taking it upscale results in Corvette-like sales numbers.
A big part of the popularity of the Mustang, at least in the past, was the fact that if you wanted one, you could buy one. IMO I don't think that is true any more. That is not a good thing, or a bad thing by itself. But more exclusive products wind up with a much smaller fan-base and are more vulnerable to the budget axe. Personally, I'd love to have a Vanquish V-12, but I can't afford one. Ergo, I don't give a **** whether the product survives or not. It doesn't affect me one way or another.
The talk of halo cars, and taking the product "more upscale" makes it far less likely that I will buy a new Mustang, not more likely. Though I may be in the minority on this board, I doubt I am the only one of the buying public that has that thought in mind.
3/4/12, 11:13 AM
#110
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I agree I think a turning point is when Ford dealers were selling 07gt500s with 20k adms it basically told Ford that there is a market for 40-60k mustangs. Kinda sad that s new loaded v6 costs about what my cobra cost when new.
3/4/12, 12:18 PM
#111
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Originally Posted by 97GT03SVT
I agree I think a turning point is when Ford dealers were selling 07gt500s with 20k adms it basically told Ford that there is a market for 40-60k mustangs. Kinda sad that s new loaded v6 costs about what my cobra cost when new.
ray:
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