5.M0NSTER

So where is MT supposed to find a 2015 Boss 302?? Right... nowhere.

The closes they can find is a 2015 GT PP, which According to FORD was supposed to be FASTER than the outgoing Boss 302. So yeah, you make a claim like that, it's fair game.

Now we know that claim is smoke and mirrors.

Besides, a 2013 Boss 302 is a 45k car. The 1LE is 38k. So dollar for dollar, power for power, I think that's as fair of a comparo as they can do right now. Wouldn't you say? Boss 302 is a force of it's own. But on a GT you can get the PP package. Well, on the 1SS you can get the 1LE package. The Z28 and ZL1 are forces of their own. So what's the problem??
Oh! The problem is that for similar money you get a track ready car with the 1LE package. And with the PP on the GT you get a ... not quite as track ready package for a similar price.

2014 GT TP was better than the 2014 SS (without the 1LE package). For the 2015 the Camaro hasn't changed. That's why they didn't bother.

And the biggest point you are missing is that the 2015 Mustang was supposed to be ALL THAT and a bag of chips. My hopes were up. And then reality sets in. BIIIG overture...little show.

DarrenGT

I can't wait to test drive both. If the 1LE feels better than a GT PP, for less than 5k more, i'd probably go with the 1LE. Better looking car in my opinion, except for the interior. But i'm not trading in my '13 vertible

Krohn

Yeah, I see what you mean.
And I just looked up the Chevrolet website... I was wrong in my thinking - The 1LE is really just a package, not a trim level. So, it is most definitely fair game for the GT Track Pack. Ford just loses this battle... badly.

But, price wise, at least according to their website. The base Camaro SS is 38k... geez!

DarrenGT

I tried to build and price a GT PP on the canadian website and don't see a PP option listed

Says contact dealer for other options. That's such BS

5.M0NSTER

Yes sir. Now I think we're on the same page. I think you're right, the Camaro is a bit more out of the box.

And Darren, last year before I ordered by 2014 GT TP I also priced out a 2014 Camro 1SS 1LE. It was $3k more. I know going in that the 1LE would smoke me and my car at the track. And the $3k isn't what swayed me.

What swayed me was the visibility issues, the fact that the 1LE was 200lbs more (3850lb track car would cost a lot more over the long run in 20" tires and brakes etc).

Plus you get a black hood with the 1LE, and I could not find a color combination with a black hood I thought looked good.

But it hurts to think how much quicker a 1LE is compared to my Mustang. To be honest though, I don't regret getting a Mustang over the Camaro one bit. I love my car. It puts a huge smile on my face every day, and it is a lot easier to live with day in and day out than the Camaro. But I wish the TP, or the PP on the new cars was more like the 1LE package. Stiffer springs, bushings, sways, and slightly altered gearing, plus 285 sticky rubber standard. Then it would be a closer match up.

Krohn

Basically like what you've done to yours lol

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Exhaust they put on the 1LEs... yeah I wish they had something like that on the GT/TP.

bt4

I must be missing something in this camparo--maybe it is because I don't track my car. Camaro quicker? Yes, at Willow Springs where I will never race. I spend most of my time on the way to and from work, or cruising on weekends. I thought I missed something did the Camaro embarrass the GT in the 0-60? I replayed the video. Found some test numbers. To my surprise I found that the 0-60 times were both 4.4 seconds. (Both cars, powerful V8's, would be highly embarrassed that a Mercedes-AMG CLA45, a turbo 2.0L I4 ran a 4.2 in a MT test--since we are bench-racing here.) Well, the 1LE wasn't any faster than the GT. Maybe I missed the trashing the Camaro gave the GT in the quarter mile. Again, to my surprise, the 1LE wasn't quicker than the GT, in fact it was a tick slower.

Since MotorTrend picked the Camaro as the winner, I thought maybe that GM had fixed the shortcomings on the Camaro. But in summing up the test the voice over said of the Camaro "...cramped, hard to see out of, and low budget..." Yup, that was the same Camaro I sat in. (And that's what you call a winner?)

People should buy whatever makes them happy, after all I am sure most of us work pretty hard for our money. I can easily see that if you spent a lot of time at the track, the Camaro would be--should be, considered ahead of the GT. GM has done a great job tuning the suspension, and making the Camaro handle like a sports car, despite the weight. On the other hand, if you spend more time in your car, on local roads, or on the highway, the Mustang is clearly a better choice. Better visibility, better interior, better ride, and plenty fast stoplight to stoplight. (just look out for the CLA45!)

DarrenGT

I completely agree with you monster, I do not regret getting MY car, and putting the money into my suspension, exhaust and rubber. i also prefer MY car over any of the new camaros. However, i do prefer the camaro over the '15 looks wise and of course out of the box performance pack. I have sat in the ss and agree visibility is not great but i havent sat in a '15 mustang yet.

I don't base my purchase based on price usually(within reason), so it comes down to performance, options and looks. '15 camaro > '15 Mustang.

SONICBOOST

Wow, Every time someone posts a good comment about the S550 here you come to show them why they shouldn't like it and how the boss is this and the S197 is that. Let people enjoy what they want and not everyone cares about the slight difference in performance numbers like YOU.

DarrenGT

Sonic, this is part of what forums are for. Opinions. we are all here because we are mustang enthusiasts. If some of us are not entirely happy with a new mustang, so what, millions will be. we'll all buy what we want in the end. Comparing our rides to competitors is just a fact of life and part of the american dream of free speech and open debate.

SONICBOOST

Yea, coming from another 13-14 GT owner :-) :-)

SONICBOOST

And I must add that it's obvious the previous model year owners will be harsher than most on a newer model. I'm not sure if it's envy, jealously, or the simple fact that they just don't like it. I understand it's an open debate but when I read the same thing over and over posted from the same person it gets old.

laserred38

I didn't love it in pics, but since seeing one in person, it's grown on me. If it had a Glass Roof at launch, I would've waited and bought one. I wish they did too, because apparently it has a much better built interior. That and I could've put like $15k down haha

DarrenGT

And a previous camaro owner too. i do get tired of repetitive s550 bashing though. I hear ya on that.

Krohn

....which, including all S197s, are probably 80% of the active members on this site.

5.M0NSTER

There are certainly improvements made on the S550. I recognize that and I'm happy about it.
I like IRS, I like the new interior, the Boss like engine and the 15" 6 piston brakes. I know a S550 will be a little quicker around the tracks I frequent here in Michigan. I'm really looking forward to taking on one or two next summer to see first hand where it gains on my car.

The statements I continuously slam are things like:
1) This comparo was stacked in the Camaro's favor
2) The camaro won because GM spent more on marketing
3) The S550 is a huge leap forward for the Mustang. Also

Statements like that are simply not true, and while I hate to crash your mutual adoration party for the S550, facts are facts. Hard to ague with logic, though people still try.

SONICBOOST

I haven't heard too many people say the S550 is a huge leap forward. It's just going in a different direction I guess. The 13-14 is and will always be a hard mustang to beat style and performance wise!

Mrsuitcase

I've thought deeply about this, and I have reasoned out why the Camaro performed better in this road test. No one has yet mentioned this, but it is glaringly obvious.


Wind Resistance.


Yes, I said it - The Camaro simply has better wind resistance. How is this possible, you ask? You may argue with me that the front end of the Camaro is more boxy, with sharper angles. You may argue that it is wider and has a larger surface area. So, how have I reasoned that it has better wind resistance?


Well, here's the answer. The Camaro is so ugly, that when the air sees it, it does its best to move out of the way. The Mustang was not built like that, so it is impossible for the Mustang to ever beat the Camaros in this test.


Some will call this an unfair advantage for the Camaro. I disagree. I think the GM engineers specifically designed it this way, and I call them out for what they are - Brilliant. No one else would have thought of making a car so ugly that the air molecules move out of its way. This is true innovation.


"People in Motion" is GM's slogan. Not just people - air molecules.

hobbie1

Just put the A/S 3's on my 2013, made all the difference in the world. A lot sticker, very quiet and better on the turns.

killaz05

I think the moral of the story is that Ford did not put out a track ready package for the GT like Chevy has done with the Camaro. The PP on the GT is a joke compared to the 1LE package. If for everyday driving then I would suggest a normal Camaro SS vs a normal GT, that is more of an apples to apples comparison.


You will find that most S197 owners are upset about is that the styling went from American Muscle to European Exotic. Camaro looks American no matter how ugly it may seem to some. Another reason S197 owners might be upset is that there is no real significant improvements. We wanted to see something spectacular for the 50th model year of one of the most amazing car names ever to have existed. We feel disappointed with the little performance gain and styling.