Jazzman442

Laser what is the issues?
It has been known that over OHV Sorry I meant OHC engines are much better on top. Push Rod engines are always better on the bottom. That is why GM and others still have the push rods. Pulse they are easier and cost less to build and mod.

IndustryLeech

Uh, I stated that the S550 ISN'T as good in a straight line. [RIF]

laserred38

I know...I wish we either had the option of a low end torque monster, or a 3.5 version of today's 5.0, but 3.5 V8. Just to keep the V8 soundtrack. In the 60s you could get a 289 or a 302 (and beyond of course) so why not offer a smaller V8 today?? Instead of a turbo 4.

As for my other issues - creaking Glass Roof structure, dash rattles and the beginnings of hood bubbling issues, to name a few...I won't bother mentioning the MT-82, because it's a dead horse that's been beaten.

Don't get me wrong, the Coyote is a stout powerplant. Just...for my uses...I would've been perfectly fine with a 4.6 3v.

rhumb

I wouldn't say pushrod (OHV) motors are better at the bottom end than OHC motors. Rather, I think that idea stems more from the fact that most OHV motors Americans are used to tend to be very large displacement and of necessity (do to the constraints of pushrod motors) are tuned for low rpm power.

I would say, if equal sized and tuned more for low end power, an (D)OHC motor would make more, not less, low end power as well as better top end power.

Notice how I'm focusing on displacement and not necessarily physical size and weight which are considerations that tend to favor a lighter, more compact OHV design than a bulkier, heavier, more complex OHC design. Thus, two motors, one OHV and the other DOHC of the same physical size and weight may make similar power/torques but the OHV motor may well be 6.2 liters while the DOHC is but 5.0 liters in displacement. As you correctly note, pushrod motors tend to be easier and cost less to build and mod, though the Chevy Z06 motors needed some exotic and expensive Ti connecting rods to be able to rev high enough to produce its 500+hp.

So what sort of motor makes the "most" power is not quite so simple depending on how you look at it.

rhumb

This^

Sure, a turbo four can be whipped hard enough to spit out some hero numbers, if numbers are all you're concerned about, but they'll never match many of the other desirable characteristics of motors with greater cylinder counts, mostly NVH where fours aren't so great. I don't mind somewhat smaller motors, presumably in subsequently lighter cars, if they have 6, 8, 10 or 12 jugs.

I think fours are good for 2 liters max, V6s at 3l, I6s at maybe 4 liters while motor with 8 or more holes really don't have any real upper size limit before getting rough, coarse and thrashy.

cdynaco

Yes - a lot has to do with how the cam profiles are dialed in as to where the power band is.

But there is no doubt an OHC delivers better in the upper bands because of better breathing. Better breathing does not mean much at the lower bands.

I think OHC's are less complex than an OHV - a chain around each cam vs 16 pushrods. Don't see many 4valves out of a pushrod either so that limits their breathing options and limits their power band, in addition to limits on rpm as you stated.

mustang5o

Actually the review I read of the previous Track Pack v 1LE was basically the exact same outcome/opinion.

I don't think the 1LE was stripped down. It appeared to have leather seats as well plus they pointed out the nice steering wheel and shift ****. I did notice however that the price as tested was like $5K more for the Mustang. As for the BOSS 302 graphics...to each their own. I do agree with the thought of doing a base GT if you really want track performance. I'm considering moving to a 2015 for several reasons. If I do, I'll likely do a base GT with Recaro's and upgrade the car the way I want rather than paying for something that doesn't quite measure up from Ford.

I thought the Brembo and TP had the same suspension? I thought it was the other things like Torsen with 3.73's standard, larger radiator, and oil cooler that were different from the Brembo cars??? They even have have the same AdvancTrac programming.

When you figure it out, let me know . I think suspension will be my first major mod to my TP car (if I don't move to a 2015). It does handle pretty well but with the wheel hop (new control arms) and bouncy ride (shocks for sure), some changes are in order. If I do, I'm considering an adjustable setup so I can have some compliance for every day driving and tighten it up for track days...which I'm hoping to start doing next year.

Jazzman442

I choose the wrong words I meant to say you already said it was not the best for a straight line.

laserred38

The 2014 TP is the same as the Brembo Package. The 2015 Performance Package is supposed to be more comprehensive, but it sounds like it has some of the same issues the 2014 TP had.

For the record, I have a 2014 TP car and have upgraded the suspension. The stock suspension sucked, but I knew that going in.

Jazzman442

Here is the differences in the Brembo and track pack.

http://www.brembo50.com/about.html

newpony

I was referring when the 2011 came out, pretty much all the reviewers were all over it and saying how much better it was over the Camaro and Challenger. I don't remember any head-to-head were the Mustang lost. It wasn't until the Z28 and ZL1 that the Camaro started pulling ahead. So according to the guy I responded to, the reason the Mustang won was because all the Fords ads in those magazines not because it was better.

mustang5o

I was about to post this same link

Ah, got it. Yeah, it's hard to know what to believe in the magazines. I liked watching Randy drive them on the track but I suppose if he's paid by MT then his comments even while driving could be swayed.

I'm planning to test drive one in late spring/early summer. Before going in for the test drive I'm going to find some roads around the dealership to drive mine on to compare a rough road experience and some cornering. Then I have to tell the sales person "were going this way" instead of letting them tell me where to go.

mustang5o

After reviewing the parts list again I would say for the most part the PP does offer some good value for the money. I'm sure it would cost much more than $2500 to buy a new brake setup, larger radiator, new wheels/tires, chassis and suspension parts, gauge pack, and the Torsen. Even if you switched out the whole suspension, $2500 for the other stuff is a good value.

That being said, if I get a 2015 I'm probably switching to an auto (beginning to have mild arthritis in my left knee and foot) so I can't get a performance package. Which I think is BS since they are doing it on the limited anniversary edition. Oh well, I would just start from the ground up as they say in doing upgrades. Wheels and tires first. Then brakes. Then suspension. Then power.

laserred38

I'm sure the PP will be offered with the auto within the next couple years. Ford always does that - look at the Brembo Package. It was manual only for 11-12, then available with an auto on 13-14. I bet it will come with the mid cycle refresh, along with the 10-Spd auto. At that point, Ford will probably venture that some guys will buy the auto to track the car, and the PP would make more sense. Paddle shifters and a quick ratio transmission will make the auto faster around the track than the manual.

mustang5o

I thought about waiting it out a year or two. I mean, if I'm not going to be getting one with the 50th anniversary appearance package or anything there's no real reason to jump on a 2015 for sure. Just depends on if I can handle driving the manual enough to enjoy it. Right now the weather has been great and I drive it every day. My foot has bothered me some but not enough to keep me from driving it.

I've driven 2 autos with paddle shifters and both were a blast. I drove a GTR on the LVMS road course (http://www.dreamracing.com/) and I drove a friends Genesis Coupe with the Track Pack. The Genesis I drove on the street and it was a blast. It had an 8 speed auto though so yeah, maybe waiting to see if Ford adds a few gears to the auto would be the way to go.

Detroit Steel

Of all of this year’s new-car showdowns, this is probably the one people have been waiting for most – the 2015 Ford Mustang GT vs. the 2015 Chevrolet Camaro SS.

Read the rest on the Mustang Source homepage. >>

5.M0NSTER

My gripe with your statements is not that you prefer the looks of the S550. That's subjective and can't be evaluated in a measurable way.

My gripe is that you seem to ignore the fact that even though the S550 is slightly better at the track than the S197, the 2013 Boss 302 is still the handling champ, according to the same people who DO THIS FOR A LIVING.
I do track my Mustang. That's why I got a 2014 GT TP. So I am excited that the new Mustang is a slightly better track car. But I'm also disappointed about how little improvement the new car has over the old on the track. The S197 Boss 302 is still the way to go. And people who sing endless praises to the S550 for no good reason are what my gripe is about. Performance wise it is a better car on a road course. Marginally. Straight line it is marginally worse. That's it. Nothing else left to say.

Stef

I can't believe how many have bought this comparison by MT. Biased-biased biased.
With the release of the new Mustang, GM is in trouble and they know it. So MT takes a Camaro version similar to a Boss 302 which is just a notch below Z-28 (sans L7) and they barely out perform by a red *unt hair, an average customer/street friendly base GT.
What's needed for a real world more believable comparo....several different drivers, all car mags involved on the same day and same track, and of coarse like the Camaro, Boss 302 suspension set up. Now its even steven.

5.M0NSTER

Put a blindfold over your eyes and just keep telling yourself the bogeyman won't get you.

The 1LE has been the performance staple since it's intro. Look back to the previous model year. It was the same result, but the 2014 Mustang got a worse beating. At least the new one is closer, but still not even close.

I work in the auto industry. I drove the 1LE at the track. I can tell you first hand the S550 does not hold a candle to it. The 1LE is a purpose built track car which is tame enough to drive daily. The S550 is a daily car which can be tracked. That's why it loses. Plane and simple.

And beside, the Z28 just won the 2014 Best Driver's Car. It's basically a 1LE with a 7L V8. I wish and hope and dream that the GT350 will be able to take on at least the 1LE. Hopefully the Z28 too. Hey... I can hope, right?

Krohn

I think you missed the point he was trying to make.... by a lot.

He's questioning why MotorTrend is comparing the (Boss 302 equivalent) Camaro 1LE to the (Non-Boss) Mustang GT. Instead, it should be the regular Camaro SS to the Mustang GT.

And before people say, "well it's the track pack!" I think we all know that it isn't a track ready car like the Boss 302 and 1LE are supposed to be. It's supposed to be a performance minded GT for people who plan to use the performance aspect of the car.

During the S197 years, it seemed the layout was:
Mustang GT......................Camaro SS
Mustang GT/TP.................----------
Mustang Boss 302.............Camaro 1LE
Mustang Boss 302-S..........Camaro Z/28
Mustang GT500.................Camaro ZL1

I do not think the Track pack is meant to (or obviously can) compete with the 1LE.

Hec, to me, if this comparison is valid, then why not compare the GT/TP to the ZL1 right now?
The current Mustang's most track ready car to Camaro's most track ready car!? That sounds right... right?

Edit: Or perhaps I've given Ford too much credit and the Track Pack is supposed to be the equivalent of the 1LE and Ford has just fallen on their faces... (primarily with wheels, tires, and suspension)