I ment the difference between the two cars, about 800lbs 3400 vs 4200.

 

Well, the new Atlas concept is supposedly 700lbs lighter than the current F-150 due to extensive use of aluminum. I could see the next Mustang shedding a few hundred lbs if they decided to go that route. Time to start investing in Alcoa.

 

I hope not, the mustang is already an expensive car. If we have an aluminum mustang I wouldn't be surprised to see a 50k gt

 

Hang on bro......hang on......some type of leaks will surely happen soon.

 

Aluminum wouldn't do that to the GT's cost unless the entire car was made from it.

 

Ford found a way to bond Aluminium to Steel, two dissimilar metals in direct contact (in the cylinder bore mind you) without galvanic corrosion. Its more of a coating process than actual bonding. I quit trying to figure Ford out with ideas and practices like that.

 

You don't think aluminum body panels wouldn't add cost to the GT? I agree they won't make the entire car of aluminum but I can guarantee whatever costs added for the use of aluminum will be passed on to the consumer.

I know people don't think about this but another issue with aluminum is that it is very difficult to repair. My friend had a bit of a shock when his Jaguar needed to have a new rear quarter panel replaced.

 

Aluminum MIG welding is elementary. It's an I-CAR standard and not difficult to do. Another option, ADHESIVE BONDING. This is a process that uses adhesive to bond dissimilar metals together. Mercedes and BMW uses this method as a standard OEM weld for the engine cradle to the firewall/A-pillar. It is also the only recommended repair for their vehicles as well... In many ways, it's just better when using a combination of UHSS/Boron and Aluminum to keep cost down and increase strength (and weight) only where needed.


Unless Ford intends to lead the industry in affordable spaceframe technology. In the future, entire side panels will be replaced as a modular unit. The 1/4 panels alone with the exterior pillars, rockers and roof tabs (SUVs and Vans). Ford is hydroforming panels now.... You can't weld them or heat them, they are bonded with adhesives or silicone brass.

I wasn't aware the Atlas was 700lbs lighter than the current F150. If Ford can find a way to use that on the Mustang, it will be a game changer. The loss on a smaller chassis will obviously be smaller than the Atlas's losses but that is a big chunk. It's panel forming technology that Ford excels in... They have truly mastered all metals...

 

IIRC, Audi's A8 is also Al - and costs quite a bit to repair (I think Audi recommends panel replacement after damage since the aluminum may be contaminated by other metals/materials from the accident). AFAIK, not many body shops can do aluminum panel repair to factory standards since most cars they deal with are primarily steel.

 

I did... my 50th anniversary Shelby wheels arrived last week.

 

Its a lot easier to shed 700lbs from a 5000+lbs vehicle than a 3500lbs one. trimming 200-300 to get the car near 3300 lbs would be great . The rest can be done with chassis and suspension tuning.

 

True, the F150 simply has more pudge to pare down, but as mentioned, achieving half that weight savings in the not-light Mustang ought to be doable, and ought to be done. Hopefully they'll shoot for a 3,200lb. GT target weight, which means, with the inevitable engineering bloat, it'll still be a trimmer, if not quite trim, 3,300-3,400 lbs.

Yes, more advanced materials to achieve that dieting goal will raise the initial purchase price, but perhaps one should look beyond that and consider overall value and cost-of-ownership too. A low purchase price does not necessarily mean a high value and often, in the long run, can be just the opposite. I think the price of using some of these materials is coming down a bit and the trick is finding that sweet spot where purchase price and overall value intersect.

 

I don't mean to be a ****, but do you know how expensive Mercedes and BMW's are?

 

+1 every time a new 3 series comes out the base price jumps up about $5000!

 

Exchange rate, shipping, and greed increase each time as well. The new 4 series is an attempt to add more profit to what was a 3 series coupe. The Boss brought me over from BMW. BMW is keeping me away.

 

Yes, but technology trickles down. Do you know how much basecoat/clearcoat was at one time? How difficult it was to acquire Mystic paint in 1994 and how much it cost?

What people believe to be state of the art is actually quite simple. Nothing fancy about aluminum and... it ends up being cheaper than most UHSS and Boron steel. The high price you pay now is for initial research and development cost and plant retooling along with technician retraining.

BMW's STEP program is no joke and the replacement parts are high (because most are modular design). The lenghts at which they train and select their Collision/Refinishing is military like. The high cost to train new technicians now is high. Soon, it will be industry standard. However, the cost of total labor is coming down because the ease of collision repair. Its nothing to drill rivets, cut bonding, clean mating flanges, install new engine cradle, glue for 2 hours and rivet, install engine (and thats a R). The job use to take 30 days. If you think about it, damaged UHSS and Boron steel can't be welded at all. It is required by the federal government to replace these steels. If you heat Boron and most UHSS at all, it becomes mild steel or sometimes brittle. The new steels are actually pretty complicated... Ever try to cut Boron? Yeaaaaaa!!!
Adhesive bonding is also bringing cost down... and NO PLUG WELDS!!!

I have no idea why people pay high prices for German cars... They break just as soon as others.

 

Well if Ford is able to do it and keep the base price GT below 32k, then I'm all for it.

 

I could see the roof panel, front fenders and maybe the doors as well as the trunk (steel on the current car I think) being made of aluminum but the body more than likely HSS or a combination of HSS and conventional steel.

 

Perception, when people buy german goods, its with a reputation of excellent engineering and high quality despite whatever the truth might be so they are able to command a higher cost.

I've talked about this before here and while not a car brand, I met a guy who wouldn't buy Michelin tires unless they were manufactured in France - I told him Michelin's tires are mostly made with an automated process so that the quality is the same throughout the process no matter where and Michelin can source them wherever they can take advantage of lower labor costs.

His reply; "If they dont make the machines in France they arent as good as the tires made in France so I only buy Michelins made in France"

Being such specialized equipment, I'm sure there are only a few places where you can get it, I would have loved to have been able to tell the guy that Michelin gets there molds from "X" in country "X"and the vulcanizing equipement from "X" in country "X" and so on. I'm sure he would have told me I was full of crap.

 

I just gotta say,this is an awesome thread. There are so many knowledgeable people here. I love hearing all the points of view.