edumspeed

Yup!

Eights

SynisterGT: I hope we all are immensely pleased by the outcome! Until then, I hope we're absolutely amazed by the Boss 302 and Boss 302 Laguna Seca (although suits are sorta hinting that the 440 horses are top end stuff that's great at the track but adds little/nothing to the standing start quarter mile and maybe little/nothing to the 0-60).

Greg "I want asses kicked and I want 'em kicked NOW" Ates

SynisterGT

Ford won't dissapoint, I hope.

Whammer

The more little bits that trickle out about the Boss the more disappointed I am. Sounds like it's completely made for the track. I understand the LS package being that way but I had hoped the regular Boss would doing 0-60 in 4 sec.

Tony Alonso

The engine performance characteristics are perfectly suited to a car with "road racer" written all over it. A recent magazine article estimated in the low 4s.

Unless you attempt objective measurements of different cars under the same conditions, the only other way you are going to "feel" a 0-60 blast in that time is by what the torque characteristics look like between 1500 and 5000 RPM. That's where a typical street driving car would most likely hang.

Having driven NASCAR stock cars in a driving experience several times, they don't feel "strong" accelerating from a stop. But they definitely pull where they need to as the engine moves toward the upper ranges.

I'd be turning up the wick on a GT500 if you wanted to feel torque down low. Of course, there is the little problem of traction also to solve.

I had always thought of the Cobra from the SN-95 days as a mix of power and handling when the IRS came to be. The Cobra now (GT500) probably is a little more geared to power because of the supercharging levels. The Boss is geared more toward handling, with a dollop of decent power to be made in the upper rev ranges, just like a road race car.

jsaylor

Unless Shelby wants the name back so he can start building all GT500's and GT350's in house, which would seem to be quite the change of heart for somebody who sounds as though he may be trying to get Ford to buy the Shelby American name out (he does keep saying he wants out and the kids don't want his business), I don't see the SVT Cobra replacing the Shelby because there just isn't a business case for it. Ford is apparently very happy with the GT500, a car which they say is very profitable and which hasn't really needed rebates to move. As a halo vehicle it has worked brilliantly.

We can debate the particulars, but if you are a Ford employee and walk into Alan Mulally's office with the suggestion that the SVT Cobra had it all over the Shelby GT500 you're probably committing career suicide. Even more, I get the distinct impression that the GT500 is going to move even further upmarket, a feat I'm guessing they believe that the Shelby name will help with. For those who say the GT500 costs too much, my guess is that you could pick any random Ford exec and they'll start pointing you toward the Boss 302 or the 'tweaked' EB V-6 powered car we all know is coming eventually.

Eights touched on this quite some time ago, but I actually wouldn't be surprised to see Shelby American end up as the 'third' Ford brand before all is said and done.

Automagically

Honestly, my personal opinion is that the Shelby name has run it's course. I was really excited to see the GT500 come back to life on the early S197s. Couldn't have been more appropriate.

With all the hubbub surrounding Shelby and the pissy mood he seems to be in all the time for no other reason other than his own problems. I just can't take the Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 SVT Cobra anymore.Talk about BMW having long names now. I believe it's time the Cobra Mustang return to SVT alone and have an SVT Cobra model, no GT500. It has run it's course for me and I completely respect it. But if Shelby want's one built, he can build it like he did in the 60's and in his own house like the GT350 is. Good luck CS, cause it's time you stopped putting your hand on the new SVT Mustangs.

All that said, I'd love to have a GT500 signed by Shelby. Only because it would be pretty sweet and would look good when I went to sell the car.

Boomer

302 = street car and track
LS = 302+more for even better track

The car is the most serious SE that Ford has done in years.
No idea why you are disappointed...you haven't even seen what one can do or driven it. It does everything it was set out to do and more.

What exactly (beyond what your want above) would you like this car to be or do that it does not (being realistic with expectations based on where its hierarchy is and price...saying it splits the diff between the GT and Shelby)

If I didn't have other priorities, I'd LOVE to get my hands on one.

Eights

Greetings once again, TMS participants! I'm back, so the party's over!

Carroll Shelby: If you love Mustangs, he is The Man. He may be more The Man if he starts sellin' the twin turbo 1116 HP, 962 lbs ft, Code Red GT500 as a turnkey vehicle instead of just as a post-title package! And an EcoBoost Mustang would be the absolutely perfect Terlingua Racing Team Mustang, another product brought to you by Carroll Shelby.

SVT: Fabulous folks, and fully deserving of all the good things said about them now and in the past.

Less mentioned but equally deserving is Multimatic Motorsports of Canada who brought us the magnificent FR500Cs of Grand American Road Racing Association fame.

And of course Steve Saleen, Jack Roush, Steve Steeda, (Given name?)Griggs, Kenny Brown, Sean Hyland, and an army of dragracing greats who have spread The Gospel According to Mustang far and wide.

A lot of people have played their part in forty-seven years of greatness--some we know of and some we don't. May they all receive the warmest gratitude and thanks of millions of Mustang owners and admirers!

In a practical sense, "Cobra" is a Shelby creation. Others may have use of the name legally, but anyone brighter than Sarah Palin knows who's the REAL father of the Cobra. It is what it is, and it IS Carroll Shelby's creation. That's all I have to say about that.

Ford's own Mustang Team may have dibs on "Boss" models, since I believe they had the biggest part to play in the 2011 Mustang and its awesome 2012 special editions. Others surely know more about this than I.

SVT, whose plate sounds pretty full with non-Mustang projects, can step back into the fray at any time. And if & when they do, I think "Mustang SVT" is all that's necessary to serve notice that "Badass spoken here."

Greg "Eights" Ates

Captain Morgan

Love those Cobras !

LagunaBeach

And who do you think is responsible for the current and future GT500's? None other than SVT, they do all the R&D on the top Mustang. The Shelby name is just that, a name. And I wouldn't get too fond of it either. There is still a snake on the fenders for a reason. The name might have some cache to it, but the image of the coiled snake says a lot more. Deadly.

2k7gtcs

I hope Ford does something for SVT in 2013, being the 20th Anniversary and all. At least give us an SVT Mustang without that old man's name on it.

jsaylor

My personal preference, in a purely dream world of course, would be to see Shelby American morph back into the American Ferrari-fighter it once was and that would include Shelby American doing all of the GT350 and GT500 models themselves. Although, to be honest while I would keep SVT as an internal tuning arm I would skip the heavily SVT based marketing for the most part. I personally think names like Boss and Mach-1 have more equaity and more respect as a whole and I would emphasize those more than the SVT moniker.

That said, from a business perspective, I just don't see how you can make a case for ditching the Shelby name from Ford's perspective. Ford easily sold every 2011 GT500 they produced well before the model year was through. I think the cold, hard truth is that the Shelby name has performed better in the market than the SVT moniker did, and while some folks argue that it was the car and not the badge.....with the way Mulally approached the business you would certainly have to prove that to him in spades for him to give anything of the sort a serious listen.

Nah, unless Shelby pulls the plug himself inadvertently or otherwise, I don't see that relationship going anywhere.

.

Where do you think that coiled snake came from? Look at the fender of a 68 GT500 and tell me what you see? If Ford could find it within themselves to kill Edsel's brand then SVT doesn't stand a chance if Ford thinks the Shelby name holds more cachet.

I've got no problem with SVT as an internal tuning arm, but as a marketing tool I have long thought that there are better alternatives. The new Raptor is giving me the distinct impression that Ford agrees to an extent, because they really haven't played up the SVT connection as much as they have in the past. Yeah, it's a SVT Raptor, and when you look it up on the Ford site SVT Raptor is what you see, but they don't seem to be playing up the SVT brand ideology at all from what I can see. It almost feels more like a performance moniker now than a brand within a brand like it once was. And I honestly don't think Ford has lost anything for it.

In fact, I think they have played up the Boss and Shelby monikers the Mustang wears a lot more than the SVT association the Raptor has.

LagunaBeach

You're missing the point of my post. I am referring to the title of this thread, not getting in a debate over what Carroll has or will do with his beloved name.

As for the '13, I keep thinking of a scene in Spaceballs where they are trying to catch the Winnebago that has gone into hyper active. Anyone?

Tony Alonso

I think there was a clear limitation on the number produced for this model year as compared to previous years. Also, while they might be "all sold" from Ford's point of view, there are cars sitting in lots now, with some people reporting purchase prices below MSRP. I believe this is an indicator of economic times, as well as perhaps some market saturation. I do agree there has been success in the association.

I believe that things were already in motion on the GT500 before Allan Mullaly assumed the CEO position. One might assume at this time that he is well aware of the marketing cache and the sales effects by association with Shelby. However, when you look back at SVT's history, the whole idea of a performance niche with dedicated marketing and dealer support was right for the time in the early 90s. They had a good run up to the Terminator Cobras (2 generation of Lightnings, Focus, Contour). They got absorbed back into the company when Ford was starting to trim that budget back in the mid-2000s.

I agree that this relationship is probably one that will last a bit more, at least from a Mustang point-of-view.

Automagically

Ferrari fighter? Maybe the Cobra and Cobra Coupe, but that's about it. Shelby hasn't been able to pull off a successful AC Cobra successor in some time. When I say that I mean production, not concept. The Cobra GT's fought Ferrari in the LeMans races.

SVT has become synonymous with performance, just as AMG, M(otorsport), Zxx, etc. Although much more recently than the Shelby branding. Thus the reason I see SVT still standing.

Actually I agree. I didn't say that it would happen, I was giving my perspective on the matter. Ford can do whatever they want. They could start making a John Force edition drag car for all I care. I believe Shelby sells cars. Even if it is just a name for the most part. Some extras but Shelby couldn't have done or do what he does without Ford's help. Extending way back into the early 60's with the AC Cobra. That relationship is hand in hand, give and take. Shelby has had plenty of unsuccessful Dodge/Chrysler products as well. Probably why the Viper didn't carry any of his name on it.

Probably true. Just my opinions above.

Funny story, Ford owns the Cobra moniker. Soooooooo, it's not really Shelby's to take anymore. The "Cobra" was a marketing success used on the early GT350's. Then extended it to certain parts, then the Cobra Jet. Anywho's Ford took that "Cobra" entity and made it theirs.

I would totally be ok with SVT being a tuning arm. Maybe a best of FRPP in a way. Great parts, and for those of us that don't want an SC engine, we could build a car with superior parts backed by the factory without having to buy an entire car built exclusively by SVT. But I like it either way, if SVT is the Mustang's M, then I'm all for it. Cause I think SVT can do an even better job with the Mustang in the future, notwithstanding to the ideas of Shelby.

Boomer

They've gone plaid....

Automagically

A well stated article at the end about SVT.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...mustang-gt500/

Oh, and... PREPARE FOR LUDICROUS SPEED!

jsaylor

Honestly, I'll go one step further and say that I don't think there has even been a worthy concept since the originals. As for Shelby American history, I'm pretty familiar with it.

The Ferrari competitor possibility was brought up because the Shelby American name is very arguably the only American brand that has any chance of meeting Ferrari head to head as a full line. No other name has the needed combination of moden day relevence, historical racing success, and cachet to pull it off. Ford can and has met Ferrari head to head with one car, the GT, but that is a long wau from a full line competitor.

Much like you I'm working on personal opinion here. I don't see the SVT moniker being nearly as storied as Shelby, AMG, or BMW M-Sport.

Of course, the story itself begins with Shelby needing Ford's (and Auto Carrier's) investment.

I was speaking to provenance and not current ownership. That said, Ford and Shelby are both indelibly linked to the Cobra name, although I like many think the truest Cobra to be a small roadster with a nasty disposition, Ford and Shelby have each built other cars that worn that moniker which I am rather fond of as well. That said, I personally don't see the point of having the SVT branding in the mix in this instance. I don't think it brings anything to the 'Cobra' brand.

I think I'm more jaded than that. SVT will do as good or as poor a job with tuning as Ford leadership dictates by their actions and decisions....nothing more, nothing less. I suspect any internal tuning arm will succeed where the current Ford leadeship team is involved. I just question the value of the SVT name as a brand relative to other possibilities.

Automagically

I see your points. I am not entirely disagreeing with you at all. Just from my perspective what I thought SVT could be. Not what it is or will be. I think Shelby needs a lot of help to be all the things you would like them to be.

I think they need some shells for Ferrari fighting. The Ford GT, the Cobra Concept, a Cobra GT, a GT500 and possibly one more variant.
Ferrari has many of the same skills they have had for years. The Mid engine coupes and the GT, and GT 2+2 cars. I think the ideas that Shelby had originally would be great starts for Ferrari fighting. The GT500 would have to be gutted completely and re chassis-ed to fight in the GT 2+2 category. The other cars are a great start already. Needing an updated Shelby Coupe. Not a Series 1. Saleen has a great start in supercars so they can help.

Either way I guess that has really gotten off topic. If the Shelby name is what keeps selling the Cobra then so be it.