tunes gone wrong
5/11/11, 08:32 AM
#22
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Posted in another thread, it appears that the tuners out there are reverting back to OEM knock sensor settings to prevent this from happening again. So, tuners looked to have been too aggressive by not allowing the ECU to retard timing (enough) when detonation was being detected.
5/11/11, 10:46 AM
#23
Shelby GT350 Member
From the lips of a Tuner.
The reason the cylinders let loose are not KS caused. Its Cheap Gas, not running the correct octane for the boost. Or simply the tunes were run slightly lean and used basic value files instead of actual dyno driven tunes.
The Knock Sensor senativity was not changed the ability to pull global knock or individual knock. Ford says #8 does get heard as well for Knock if it exist and to leave the KS in global knock status meaning 1 cylinder knocks, Spark gets pulled on all cylinders instead of spark being pulled at individual cylinders.
Solution...... Don't get knock. Run 93 from a Shell or Sunoco. Other solution. Race Track, Race Gas , Race Tune..... Run Octane while beating the car at the track.
I would have to send out over 500 tune updates. As I have had no one Blow up. I also don't run as much overall spark as some other shops and I run the cars Commanded Fuel Richer.
Also I suspect the cars that had these # 8 pistons fail... I bet if you really opened up the whole picture the cars were being Beat hard and the #8 piston oil squitter is comprimised and not cooling the piston.
The reason the cylinders let loose are not KS caused. Its Cheap Gas, not running the correct octane for the boost. Or simply the tunes were run slightly lean and used basic value files instead of actual dyno driven tunes.
The Knock Sensor senativity was not changed the ability to pull global knock or individual knock. Ford says #8 does get heard as well for Knock if it exist and to leave the KS in global knock status meaning 1 cylinder knocks, Spark gets pulled on all cylinders instead of spark being pulled at individual cylinders.
Solution...... Don't get knock. Run 93 from a Shell or Sunoco. Other solution. Race Track, Race Gas , Race Tune..... Run Octane while beating the car at the track.
I would have to send out over 500 tune updates. As I have had no one Blow up. I also don't run as much overall spark as some other shops and I run the cars Commanded Fuel Richer.
Also I suspect the cars that had these # 8 pistons fail... I bet if you really opened up the whole picture the cars were being Beat hard and the #8 piston oil squitter is comprimised and not cooling the piston.
5/11/11, 07:16 PM
#24
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From the lips of a Tuner.
The reason the cylinders let loose are not KS caused. Its Cheap Gas, not running the correct octane for the boost. Or simply the tunes were run slightly lean and used basic value files instead of actual dyno driven tunes.
The Knock Sensor senativity was not changed the ability to pull global knock or individual knock. Ford says #8 does get heard as well for Knock if it exist and to leave the KS in global knock status meaning 1 cylinder knocks, Spark gets pulled on all cylinders instead of spark being pulled at individual cylinders.
Solution...... Don't get knock. Run 93 from a Shell or Sunoco. Other solution. Race Track, Race Gas , Race Tune..... Run Octane while beating the car at the track.
I would have to send out over 500 tune updates. As I have had no one Blow up. I also don't run as much overall spark as some other shops and I run the cars Commanded Fuel Richer.
Also I suspect the cars that had these # 8 pistons fail... I bet if you really opened up the whole picture the cars were being Beat hard and the #8 piston oil squitter is comprimised and not cooling the piston.
The reason the cylinders let loose are not KS caused. Its Cheap Gas, not running the correct octane for the boost. Or simply the tunes were run slightly lean and used basic value files instead of actual dyno driven tunes.
The Knock Sensor senativity was not changed the ability to pull global knock or individual knock. Ford says #8 does get heard as well for Knock if it exist and to leave the KS in global knock status meaning 1 cylinder knocks, Spark gets pulled on all cylinders instead of spark being pulled at individual cylinders.
Solution...... Don't get knock. Run 93 from a Shell or Sunoco. Other solution. Race Track, Race Gas , Race Tune..... Run Octane while beating the car at the track.
I would have to send out over 500 tune updates. As I have had no one Blow up. I also don't run as much overall spark as some other shops and I run the cars Commanded Fuel Richer.
Also I suspect the cars that had these # 8 pistons fail... I bet if you really opened up the whole picture the cars were being Beat hard and the #8 piston oil squitter is comprimised and not cooling the piston.
5/13/11, 12:56 PM
#26
I Have No Life
How many people have come back with this issue on a supercharged engine?
As far as I've read these are all tune related (with mild mods)
All the reported issues come from the same piston locations.
These engines can obviously take the power...
How you make it, THAT is what I'd be concerned with.
Problem with new engines, some people have to play the guinea pigs to the tuners.
As far as I've read these are all tune related (with mild mods)
All the reported issues come from the same piston locations.
These engines can obviously take the power...
How you make it, THAT is what I'd be concerned with.
Problem with new engines, some people have to play the guinea pigs to the tuners.
Last edited by Boomer; 5/13/11 at 03:38 PM.
5/13/11, 02:09 PM
#27
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Posted in another thread, it appears that the tuners out there are reverting back to OEM knock sensor settings to prevent this from happening again. So, tuners looked to have been too aggressive by not allowing the ECU to retard timing (enough) when detonation was being detected.
5/15/11, 08:46 PM
#29
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How many people have come back with this issue on a supercharged engine?
As far as I've read these are all tune related (with mild mods)
All the reported issues come from the same piston locations.
These engines can obviously take the power...
How you make it, THAT is what I'd be concerned with.
Problem with new engines, some people have to play the guinea pigs to the tuners.
As far as I've read these are all tune related (with mild mods)
All the reported issues come from the same piston locations.
These engines can obviously take the power...
How you make it, THAT is what I'd be concerned with.
Problem with new engines, some people have to play the guinea pigs to the tuners.
5/15/11, 10:11 PM
#31
MOTM Committee Member
5/15/11, 10:11 PM
#32
I'm sticking to casting problem, why #8 if it's a tune issue? look how clean that piston is and how nicely that chunk snapped off I just can't see this being a tune problem and those who claim it's a tune problem you would have to tell me why it's just #8? and why are there no signs of detonation.
5/15/11, 10:38 PM
#33
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I'm sticking to casting problem, why #8 if it's a tune issue? look how clean that piston is and how nicely that chunk snapped off I just can't see this being a tune problem and those who claim it's a tune problem you would have to tell me why it's just #8? and why are there no signs of detonation.
Seems like that other thread mentioned more than one 5.0 having the #8 fail. That hole is subject to more heat, and it was thrown out there that maybe the #8 (piston cooling) oil squirter is starved under load - which would be surprising with the huge pan capacity and the baffles. But if true, with the higher compression, and a hotter piston than the others, perhaps that is beyond what the stock (plastic metal
) piston can take. I would think even moreso if you were pushing it on and off, on and off... and that particular casting was at its limit. 
Last edited by cdynaco; 5/16/11 at 12:34 PM.
5/15/11, 10:49 PM
#34
I Have No Life
But
Those darn #8 rings...guess #1 through 7 were done right.
5/15/11, 11:12 PM
#36
Come on guys the proof is already in front of you. If Ford had any idea it wasn't their fault they would never have replaced a single one of these motors. And we all know that. Right Boomer? 
5/16/11, 08:11 AM
#37
Shelby GT350 Member
Some interesting (and some not so interesting) conversation going on about this at allfordmustangs.com.
It seems that some tuners have messed with the stock knock sensor paramaters...though most have claimed that their tunes don't involve this. This maaaayy be relevant though nobody knows (of course).
The problem that I see coming down the road is that with any tuned car, both Ford and the tuner have plausible deniability and the customer is left to grab their ankles and take it.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...take-dump.html
It seems that some tuners have messed with the stock knock sensor paramaters...though most have claimed that their tunes don't involve this. This maaaayy be relevant though nobody knows (of course).
The problem that I see coming down the road is that with any tuned car, both Ford and the tuner have plausible deniability and the customer is left to grab their ankles and take it.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...take-dump.html
5/16/11, 08:20 AM
#38
I Have No Life
Some interesting (and some not so interesting) conversation going on about this at allfordmustangs.com.
It seems that some tuners have messed with the stock knock sensor paramaters...though most have claimed that their tunes don't involve this. This maaaayy be relevant though nobody knows (of course).
The problem that I see coming down the road is that with any tuned car, both Ford and the tuner have plausible deniability and the customer is left to grab their ankles and take it.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...take-dump.html
It seems that some tuners have messed with the stock knock sensor paramaters...though most have claimed that their tunes don't involve this. This maaaayy be relevant though nobody knows (of course).
The problem that I see coming down the road is that with any tuned car, both Ford and the tuner have plausible deniability and the customer is left to grab their ankles and take it.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...take-dump.html
Just saying that it would be a bunch of things, and I'm not counting out an issue with parts....
but... if its the same position in every complaint, they've all had tunes, and there are cars putting out more power without this issue...
Kinda makes you wonder.
