sqidd

What advice/opinion have I given could have been influenced by having "skin in the game"? I don't remember suggesting anyone buy anything.

And frankly I don't appreciate you suggesting I am less than honest. I understand your initial reaction to industry insiders. But if anyone knows me, and a lot do, they know I take getting my customers into what is best for them very seriously. Even if that doesn't involve me making the sale.

Again, I understand your original assessment. There is a lot of crap product out there and a lot of people that will say anything to make the sale. But don't paint me with the same brush. I constantly lose sales because I won't promise the unrealistic results others do. And I constantly catch backlash from shops/vendors/manufacturers for my candor. In short there is a "cost" to how I approach truth. I'm not going to pay that and also take guff about being less than honest because I'm inside the industry.

Rant over......

Where do you suggest someone find those sources?

-According to you you can't trust the vendors and manufacturers (for the most part you can't).

-You can't trust magazines. There are no longer tech reviews or tests. Everything you see is a paid advertisement.

-Most of the customer base is woefully technically unqualified to asses the performance of a supercharger they own. They have personal bias and the conscious or subconscious defense of a large purchase. And in most case they have only ever owned one supercharger which means they don't have anything to compare it to.

-And a few of the big names that have stellar reputations are tarted up junk. So you can't trust reputation.

I'm seriously curious where you think that people can get good, accurate, unbiased facts from? This is not me arguing. This is me genuinely curious about what you think. If there is a solution to the "problem" I'm all ears. Because I think it's a big problem (the lack of reliable buying information).

crjackson

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5LHO

There are profound differences in engine feel depending on which kind of FI you choose. It's not 10 psi is 10 psi. That might be true at WOT but, even there, the way the engine performs will feel significantly different. End result the same, how it feels, no so.

Any PD system of similar boost is going to feel more powerful all around than a centri, unless its tuning is so emasculated it doesn't work. The touchy thing with PD is the charge air temp and intake air temp. Factory style tuning in this area is really hyperactive and pulls ALOT of timing if it is even close to unhappy, because the PD blower puts alot of load on the rotating assembly and can induce preignition easier than a centri setup. Hence the extra caution.

At the track this can be so bad, I have watched Roush Stage 3 cars, for example, back into the mph range of a bolt on NA Mustang GT when the night's hot and humid. The Roush factory tune is bad but, it's the same with the Kennes and Whipples.

So, your plan to go turn key and get the biggest heat exchanger and fan setup you can get is great, as is installing headers ahead of time.

I would definitely go PD if I went this route again, no question though. The all-around poke will suit my daily driving and the automatic.

sqidd

You're 100% correct about most PD blowers having heat soak issues after multiple runs. This is not an inherent PD design/packaging issue though. It's because most of the PD manufacturers have done absolutely nothing to solve the problem (saves money). There are a few PD blowers out there that don't have any heat soak problems.

And Centri blowers are not immune. They work a little better at lower boost numbers. But when things start to get turned up even the biggest air to air setups can't keep things cool. You will find that a lot of Centri blowers making good size power have to run meth or e85. Or they just pull a ton of timing.

crjackson

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5LHO

I'm just gonna say it, even the most basic FI systems available for the coyote are north of 600 HP with anything resembling a decent tune. This is serious, can-kill-you power with 2WD, beyond a little "adrenaline rush". The car is completely different with this level of power inserted. If you haven't experienced it, you can't really comprehend it. The car becomes quite unbalanced, if you don't pry on a whole load of supporting mods, and still is, even if you do, because you are trying to cram it through road tires and 2WD.

Buying $6000+ in blower kit and just potting around to the shops is, in my opinion, a waste of money or an ego trip. Roush emasculates their oem road car tune so much that the car's a waste of money unless you chuck the warranty. The GT500, particularly the later one, is an already unbalanced car that'll bbq its brakes and tires if you try to unleash it's power on the back road. It's pretty much all-engine.

I actually race my cars and it's a ton of money to get thrown off the track for not having a cage or wanting to cut the car up for one. When I went blower I got the kit for a price that couldn't be refused so, I said I'll go for it, what the hell....Hell came, in the install, the tuning and the ultimate fate of the vehicle.

If you gotta have it, you gotta have it but, consider analyzing how happy you actually are and if this will make you more so.

trackpack13gt

My main concern is that if there would be too much power if supercharged. I am not interested in straight line speed. I often read how 500-600bhp is the limit before you cannot put power down.

I'm thinking to do all of the bolt on mods first gradually and then switch to a supercharger.

crjackson

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sqidd

Fixed^^^

Blown CS

It all boils down to how you drive and if you can drive, plan and simple. I was at 600whp for 2 years and pushed it hard on the track and Street. Yes it got a little crazy a few times where the tires broke loose around 50mph and the rear started to walk, but I nursed the throttle and straightened her up. I drove the beast through all seasons, you just need to be sensible and aware of the manners of your car. I've gone 4 months with no SC and I'm anxious to get it install in the my newest Stang since I miss the powa.

Stage_3

I think it's more like,........Anyone else regret not going supercharged??
Just do it and enjoy it. More and more cars are getting supercharged everyday. Seems like the norm now.
Good luck and enjoy!

5LHO

Flywheel of course, which is what everyone quotes. I still don't believe that invalidates my point.

Everyone talks "driver mod" which I find a little insulting. You can't just drive around everything the road throws at you. There is no question you better be paying attention if you have 550 on tap. No driver mod is likely to save your *** if you lay into your car and hit an unseen patch of diesel, say, or a minivan misses a stop sign and barrels out from a side street.

What I'm saying is know what makes you happy and pursue that. If FI is going to do it for you and you're going to have a better life for having it, go for it. Lots of people do things for the wrong reasons though and don't end up happier. This is certainly the voice of experience talking, after 30+ years in this hobby, doing all my own work.

Blown CS

Fixed it for you, lol.

sqidd

Well, every manufacturer that quotes flywheel HP is full of doodie. As far as I know only ONE manufacturer even has an engine dyno, and that's Roush. So what the other manufacturers are doing is padding their numbers, without concrete data, to increase sales. Basically it's bull****.

Secondly customers can't verify the manufacturers flywheel numbers because the only realistic way to get numbers is on a wheel dyno.

Lastly flywheel numbers are not what matters one little bit. What matters is where the power meets the road, and that's at the wheels.

Why?

When people talk river mod they're not talking about what the road can throw at you. They're talking about what the car can throw at you. Those are two completely different things. A driver mod can cover what the car can throw at you.

This holds true for a 250hp car too.

I agree.

5LHO

Can't say I disagree with much of your view here...

What I mean by insulting is that every time something doesn't go right for someone at the track or on the street you have some keyboard commando yelling, "driver mod". That's what is insulting.

I do agree that you can get into trouble with 250 except that the consequences when things go wrong with 550 on tap tend to be more severe than when 250 is on tap. I certainly know this from first hand experience.

I can remember when 250 was impressive and required serious mods, having been at this for 30+ years.

sqidd

I've got 10yrs of professional racing under my belt. Championships, lots of race wins, lap records (not class lap records, outright lap records), etc. I spent some time as an instructor as well as developing tires for Michelin and Pirelli. My vehicle control skills are nearly "other-worldly" in comparison to your average Joe. Not a boast, just a fact. And in my opinion 99x out of 100 when someone goes off about people needing a driver mod, they're right. Everyone thinks they can drive, not many actually can.

What's to get upset about? If someone can't drive maybe they should listen up. If they can drive, they can simply ignore it.

Not in the examples you gave.

Me too. And I think the current level of easily accessible HP is a little over the top when you factor in the average drivers skill-set. People will spend thousands of dollars making their car faster. But not spend two to three days and a couple hundred dollars learning how to drive it. The math is all wrong.

boss man

And I think the current level of easily accessible HP is a little over the top when you factor in the average drivers skill-set. People will spend thousands of dollars making their car faster. But not spend two to three days and a couple hundred dollars learning how to drive it. The math is all wrong.[/QUOTE]

+1

crjackson

squidd - PM sent

5LHO

See...here's the thing with the driver mod callout:

First, it tends to oversimplify a complex interaction between person and machine and distill it down to one "simple" cause for a situation.

Second, it's classic microaggression and is intended to offend. Nobody uses these words as some sort of friendly, fraternal advice here.

sqidd

Are you by any chance a millennial?

Words don't offend me. The only thing I take as aggression is something physical. And unless it's someone close to me, I'm not effected by other peoples opinions/observation. So I can't relate to where you're coming from.