CDC lightbar / convertible top warranty issue
2/5/07, 10:14 PM
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CDC lightbar / convertible top warranty issue
I have been a reader of this site and follower of the project source horse since I bought my new 2005 mustang gt convertible from the showroom floor in April of 2005. I don't think I have ever posted as this is my first mustang, but second convertible, and you guys have far more insight than I ever will. I am posting because of a CDC lightbar/convertible top warranty issue. My car is strickly a toy. I have a truck that is my everyday driver. My mustang just turned 14,000 miles and is garage-kept. I live in a mild southern climate.
During my step-daughter's Christmas break I let her drive my car during the day to work. She called me very upset one day during the week between Christmas and New Year's informing me the top would not go all the way up. The top was hanging up when it first started going up, freed itself, then stopped in a bind 3-4 inches from completely closing. It would close no further. I told her to stop crying, whatever the problem it should be covered by the warranty and we would just drop it off to the shop when it quit raining. About an hour after dropping off my mustang I called the service manager from the dealership to check on what they thought the problem might be. I was told to come by because there was a serious problem.
I had taken the lightbar off a few weeks earlier for my girl's homecomeing parade because I was afraid it would interfere with the homecoming picture and the holes in the molding had them concerned. I chuckled and told them it is just a lightbar bracket like on a saleen (I think this is right, but I am not sure as I am no way a mustang expert). The mechanic they had to look at my car did not inspire confidence. He was just sitting on his butt and didn't even want to touch the car. At this point they had not even looked at my car. The service manager informed me the shavings from the installation of the light bar must have gotten into the convertible motor or hydrolics and therefor voided my warranty. I took great care in installation and had a friend help me who is a top-notch car restorer and I didn't think this assessment could possibly be right. The service manager then pointed out a "chip" in the vinyl top. I figured this is what I deserved for letting my girl drive my car. He then asked me to carry my car to a non-dealership shop specializing in any and all convertibles 70 miles away as this work would not be covered by the warranty anyway. I got into the car and raised the top, showing them that after the inital hang up the top raised and lowered normally until it stopped short of closing. This blew his theory out of the water. I asked if we could pull the molding and seats out in the shop with the mechanic present and watching so maybe we could find the problem. It was also starting to rain and getting it home would be a serious problem. There was no way to get home now with it raining hard outside and they agreed.
Once I pulled the molding and seats and I could see the problem and the mechanic started to take interest. After just a couple of minutes of raising and lowering the top it was obvious the passenger's side rail was catching. From our vantage it looked as if this side rail was actually bent. The mechanic then remembered seeing a TSB (technical service bullitin marked on my invoice TSB 05-24-06) and pulled it from the computer. After reading it looked as if we found the problem. I took the TSB to the service manager and he said they would take care of it but did not know how long this would take. That was an understatement. I was trying to be as cordial as possible and told them to take their time. I was a little upset and worried because I knew if I had simply done as the service manager had asked and took the mustang to a speciality shop I would have been looking at a $1,000.00 repair bill. I also overheard one disgruntle mechanic telling another that if the warranty work called for 3 hours of work you could count on actual 6 hours and he did not want to do it.
About two weeks later I called and they told me they now had to replace the driver's side rail as well and it would have to be ordered. A full month after putting my car in the shop I called and it was ready to be picked up. I was met by a service guy who spoke as if he was the service manager's second-in-command. He told me that they believed the true cause of the problem was that the emergency break wire running to the convertible top was cut. He told me the emergency break normally must be set for the top to rise and I must have bypassed it and the the top must have been raised at an excessive speed to damage the side rails. I've never had to set my emergency brake to raise my top and I bet none of you have either. Since the day I purchased my car the top won't move while traveling at excessive speeds and this seems to be the lone safety feature. The wire he is confusing can only be a lighting wire to the removed lightbar. He then informed me that while they covered the work under warranty this time they would not do so in the future. I got a little peeved and tried to explain about the lightbar but it was Friday and the service manager was gone for the day and I was told to contact him this week.
I then took the car to some decent light where I could really look at it. First I looked at the chip in the vinyl, then I notice serious cracks in the vinyl at the folding point when the top is down that I know could not have been there beforehand nor should possibly be there due to the age and treatment of the car. I went to put the top down and the convertible top release handle on the passenger's side had been forced into place so hard the black material had been scraped off and had relatively deep gashes in places. There is no way the handle should have to be forced that hard if the work had been done correctly. I then put the top down and it looked as if it wasn't going all the way, but an expert would have to look to be sure. The final blow was I found a "blunt" wrapper on the floor. A couple of months before I had the car in the shop for a faulty shifter that never did go easily in park. My confidence in the quality of my showroom mustang and this dealer's service is shot.
Here is what I would like your opinior and advice before I proceed further.
1. Did installation of the CDC lightbar constitute voiding my warranty on convertible operation?
2. While the chip in the vinyl could possibly be an easy fix with krazy glue, if necessary, do the serious cracks show faulty material breakdown or excess stress during repair that are going to quickly become worse and should it be covered under warranty?
3. Should I approach the service manager who seems determined not to warranty anything and risk further shotty work that takes such a long time to complete or go directly to the Ford Warranty Homepage?
4. If correctonal work is warranted, do I have the right to take my car to another town with a bigger dealership and possibly more experienced and talented employees?
Thanks for reading such a long post and any advice is appreciated. A friend took pictures but couldn't get them to me tonight.
Andy.
During my step-daughter's Christmas break I let her drive my car during the day to work. She called me very upset one day during the week between Christmas and New Year's informing me the top would not go all the way up. The top was hanging up when it first started going up, freed itself, then stopped in a bind 3-4 inches from completely closing. It would close no further. I told her to stop crying, whatever the problem it should be covered by the warranty and we would just drop it off to the shop when it quit raining. About an hour after dropping off my mustang I called the service manager from the dealership to check on what they thought the problem might be. I was told to come by because there was a serious problem.
I had taken the lightbar off a few weeks earlier for my girl's homecomeing parade because I was afraid it would interfere with the homecoming picture and the holes in the molding had them concerned. I chuckled and told them it is just a lightbar bracket like on a saleen (I think this is right, but I am not sure as I am no way a mustang expert). The mechanic they had to look at my car did not inspire confidence. He was just sitting on his butt and didn't even want to touch the car. At this point they had not even looked at my car. The service manager informed me the shavings from the installation of the light bar must have gotten into the convertible motor or hydrolics and therefor voided my warranty. I took great care in installation and had a friend help me who is a top-notch car restorer and I didn't think this assessment could possibly be right. The service manager then pointed out a "chip" in the vinyl top. I figured this is what I deserved for letting my girl drive my car. He then asked me to carry my car to a non-dealership shop specializing in any and all convertibles 70 miles away as this work would not be covered by the warranty anyway. I got into the car and raised the top, showing them that after the inital hang up the top raised and lowered normally until it stopped short of closing. This blew his theory out of the water. I asked if we could pull the molding and seats out in the shop with the mechanic present and watching so maybe we could find the problem. It was also starting to rain and getting it home would be a serious problem. There was no way to get home now with it raining hard outside and they agreed.
Once I pulled the molding and seats and I could see the problem and the mechanic started to take interest. After just a couple of minutes of raising and lowering the top it was obvious the passenger's side rail was catching. From our vantage it looked as if this side rail was actually bent. The mechanic then remembered seeing a TSB (technical service bullitin marked on my invoice TSB 05-24-06) and pulled it from the computer. After reading it looked as if we found the problem. I took the TSB to the service manager and he said they would take care of it but did not know how long this would take. That was an understatement. I was trying to be as cordial as possible and told them to take their time. I was a little upset and worried because I knew if I had simply done as the service manager had asked and took the mustang to a speciality shop I would have been looking at a $1,000.00 repair bill. I also overheard one disgruntle mechanic telling another that if the warranty work called for 3 hours of work you could count on actual 6 hours and he did not want to do it.
About two weeks later I called and they told me they now had to replace the driver's side rail as well and it would have to be ordered. A full month after putting my car in the shop I called and it was ready to be picked up. I was met by a service guy who spoke as if he was the service manager's second-in-command. He told me that they believed the true cause of the problem was that the emergency break wire running to the convertible top was cut. He told me the emergency break normally must be set for the top to rise and I must have bypassed it and the the top must have been raised at an excessive speed to damage the side rails. I've never had to set my emergency brake to raise my top and I bet none of you have either. Since the day I purchased my car the top won't move while traveling at excessive speeds and this seems to be the lone safety feature. The wire he is confusing can only be a lighting wire to the removed lightbar. He then informed me that while they covered the work under warranty this time they would not do so in the future. I got a little peeved and tried to explain about the lightbar but it was Friday and the service manager was gone for the day and I was told to contact him this week.
I then took the car to some decent light where I could really look at it. First I looked at the chip in the vinyl, then I notice serious cracks in the vinyl at the folding point when the top is down that I know could not have been there beforehand nor should possibly be there due to the age and treatment of the car. I went to put the top down and the convertible top release handle on the passenger's side had been forced into place so hard the black material had been scraped off and had relatively deep gashes in places. There is no way the handle should have to be forced that hard if the work had been done correctly. I then put the top down and it looked as if it wasn't going all the way, but an expert would have to look to be sure. The final blow was I found a "blunt" wrapper on the floor. A couple of months before I had the car in the shop for a faulty shifter that never did go easily in park. My confidence in the quality of my showroom mustang and this dealer's service is shot.
Here is what I would like your opinior and advice before I proceed further.
1. Did installation of the CDC lightbar constitute voiding my warranty on convertible operation?
2. While the chip in the vinyl could possibly be an easy fix with krazy glue, if necessary, do the serious cracks show faulty material breakdown or excess stress during repair that are going to quickly become worse and should it be covered under warranty?
3. Should I approach the service manager who seems determined not to warranty anything and risk further shotty work that takes such a long time to complete or go directly to the Ford Warranty Homepage?
4. If correctonal work is warranted, do I have the right to take my car to another town with a bigger dealership and possibly more experienced and talented employees?
Thanks for reading such a long post and any advice is appreciated. A friend took pictures but couldn't get them to me tonight.
Andy.
2/6/07, 05:01 AM
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1. Did installation of the CDC lightbar constitute voiding my warranty on convertible operation?
2. While the chip in the vinyl could possibly be an easy fix with krazy glue, if necessary, do the serious cracks show faulty material breakdown or excess stress during repair that are going to quickly become worse and should it be covered under warranty?
3. Should I approach the service manager who seems determined not to warranty anything and risk further shotty work that takes such a long time to complete or go directly to the Ford Warranty Homepage?
4. If correctonal work is warranted, do I have the right to take my car to another town with a bigger dealership and possibly more experienced and talented employees?
2. While the chip in the vinyl could possibly be an easy fix with krazy glue, if necessary, do the serious cracks show faulty material breakdown or excess stress during repair that are going to quickly become worse and should it be covered under warranty?
3. Should I approach the service manager who seems determined not to warranty anything and risk further shotty work that takes such a long time to complete or go directly to the Ford Warranty Homepage?
4. If correctonal work is warranted, do I have the right to take my car to another town with a bigger dealership and possibly more experienced and talented employees?
1. The installation of the bar COULD void the warranty, if it affected the part of the top that was broken, and actually caused the malfunction. For example, if the top hit the bar (ie-the bar was too tall), causing the top to not close all the way and to cause breakage, then no it would not be covered by warranty. another example would be if, in fact, some of the metal scraps caused the top to tear. That wouldn't be covered either. However, if the lightbar has nothing to do with the problem, then the dealer should warrant it.
2. I don't have a good answer for, but with some of the tops, you can see the reinforcements from the outside, and you can see the fold marks from the top being in the down position.
3. I would talk to the service manager and tell him about your issues with the dealership. If that doesn't work, you can always talk to the dealership owner/manager. Tell them that you are VERY upset with the way you and your car were treated, and that you feel some type of compensation should be given for your time and their lack of respect for the car and yourself. They may throw in some oil changes, etc (but you would need to determine if you would go back or not)
You can also call Ford, but that may not get you anywhere
. But, it wouldn't hurt...maybe just take up a little more time, which by this point is probably a lot already4. You can go to ANY ford dealership to do ANY work, whether or not it is under warranty. So, if you don't like one, just go to another with a better reputation.
A few comments:
**the TSB for the issue should have been an automatic red flag to the service dept. that that may be causing the issue.
**I have a manual, and I don't need the e-brake engaged in order to adjust the top. Like you said, it is only functional at low speeds.
**I believe that the MOTOR for the top is in the trunk, right behind the rear seat and under the trunk carpet. I saw it when I was wiring up my SAT antenna. the only thing under those upper trim panels is the rails for the top itself, as far as I know
**If a TSB says that something will take X number of hours, that's as much as Ford will pay the dealership to do the work. So, the tech that said it would take double that time is full of it, because if that were the case, the dealership would lose that money because they wouldn't get reimbursed by ford.
Hope this info helps
2/6/07, 05:50 AM
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Thanks for the verification of what I thought. The lightbar does not touch the top ever.
I didn't do a very good job explaining the cracks. A picture would be able to show exactly the problem. These are splits in the vinyl at pressure points at both the driver's and passenger's window.
I didn't do a very good job explaining the cracks. A picture would be able to show exactly the problem. These are splits in the vinyl at pressure points at both the driver's and passenger's window.
2/6/07, 06:46 AM
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I think I remember reading about some issues with the tops, especially for 05 models. I read about them probably about a year ago, so I don't remember for sure (it may have not even been this forum in all honesty). But, it memory serves, I think it had to do with the rails that are in (what would be...) the C-pillar. I think I read that the rails were pushing through the vinyl, and that in 06 Ford fixed the problem.
I would suggest doing a search in google or something. I'm sorry I can't help more
I would suggest doing a search in google or something. I'm sorry I can't help more
2/6/07, 01:21 PM
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Isn't there a TSB for the convertible tops cracking that was posted here about 6 months ago? Someone had problems with their top cracking at the first fold point behind the windshield header...and there was a TSB that was issued that addressed it...anyone remember that?
2/6/07, 04:39 PM
#8
Mach 1 Member
This is what TSB 05-24-6 is covering:
ISSUE
Some 2005/2006 Mustang Convertible vehicles may require a repair of the convertible top. Individual components should continue to be used where appropriate, but if required a new top assembly is now available.
ACTION
Evaluate the convertible top concern and perform acost effective repair. A complete assembly is notnecessary for most repairs and should only be usedwhen the top frame has caused consequential damage to the top cover.
Veify the convertible top components that require replacement, and order the lowest level of components to repair the top. The following is a summary of the convertible top system concerns and the appropriate service action to correct the issue.
For complete system diagnosis and repairinformation, refer to the Mustang Workshop Manual,Section 501-18.
1.Top lifts unevenly side-to-side with no hydraulicsystem issues
2. Top latch dowel pins do not align with headercomponents latch bracket. (Figure 2)
3. Top #1 bow clearance to top well in the body is uneven.
4. Side window seals do not align properly to glass.
But in your case I would have a serious look in this one:
TSB 06-19-5
2005-2007 Mustang
ISSUE
Some 2005-2007 Mustang vehicles equipped with convertible top could develop wear or a hole near he 4th bow and/or number 1 bow area. This is caused by the number 1 and number 4 bow wearing or pinching through the vinyl or cloth top
ACTION
Remove And Install a new convertible top cover, revised number 4 bow, and add tape to the number 1 bow panel per the instruction sheet provided in the Service Kit.
7R3Z-76539B40-AA Kit - Roof Top Cover (Black)
7R3Z-76539B40-AB Kit - Roof Top Cover (Camel)
The way you described your problem, it may have been orginally caused by the wear in one of the bow (TSB 06-19-5) and you may have not noticed the damage to the top material prior to bring it in for service..
Just my 2 cents.
ISSUE
Some 2005/2006 Mustang Convertible vehicles may require a repair of the convertible top. Individual components should continue to be used where appropriate, but if required a new top assembly is now available.
ACTION
Evaluate the convertible top concern and perform acost effective repair. A complete assembly is notnecessary for most repairs and should only be usedwhen the top frame has caused consequential damage to the top cover.
Veify the convertible top components that require replacement, and order the lowest level of components to repair the top. The following is a summary of the convertible top system concerns and the appropriate service action to correct the issue.
For complete system diagnosis and repairinformation, refer to the Mustang Workshop Manual,Section 501-18.
1.Top lifts unevenly side-to-side with no hydraulicsystem issues
2. Top latch dowel pins do not align with headercomponents latch bracket. (Figure 2)
3. Top #1 bow clearance to top well in the body is uneven.
4. Side window seals do not align properly to glass.
But in your case I would have a serious look in this one:
TSB 06-19-5
2005-2007 Mustang
ISSUE
Some 2005-2007 Mustang vehicles equipped with convertible top could develop wear or a hole near he 4th bow and/or number 1 bow area. This is caused by the number 1 and number 4 bow wearing or pinching through the vinyl or cloth top
ACTION
Remove And Install a new convertible top cover, revised number 4 bow, and add tape to the number 1 bow panel per the instruction sheet provided in the Service Kit.
7R3Z-76539B40-AA Kit - Roof Top Cover (Black)
7R3Z-76539B40-AB Kit - Roof Top Cover (Camel)
The way you described your problem, it may have been orginally caused by the wear in one of the bow (TSB 06-19-5) and you may have not noticed the damage to the top material prior to bring it in for service..
Just my 2 cents.
2/6/07, 04:46 PM
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Dineau, thanks for the post. That second TSB was exactly the one that I had read about. Unfortunately for people with this issue, a top replacement isn't the best thing in the world to have done. But, at least it's covered under warranty
7/30/07, 12:04 PM
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My top has now worn two marks, one on the outside of each side of the CDC light bar, to the point where they are "shiny". I believe it is either from resting on it lightly when it is up or due to rubbing on the way down and back. Have not had any problem with the operation of the top in the past 10 months. This is on a 2007 model.
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