<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dswhalen @ April 19, 2006, 4:22 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
... Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one, and nobody wants to hear yours. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/box2.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
There is a difference between nobody wants to hear your opinion and nobody wants to hear your opinion because they don't like it or what is brought up to light as a result of your comments. Apples and oranges. I take it what you really meant was you and your countless supporters.

I am perplexed though, as to why one of those supporters has not offered you one of their dealer's allocation at MSRP. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/what.gif[/img]

With their rollback, Blue Oval Dealer certification, dealer fees, and the car's mark up they could wind up with a net in the neighborhood of $4,500 just for doing some paperwork, shaking your hand, and giving the car a wash upon delivery. That's not too shaby. Wouldn't that be something? You would be happy, I get slapped with a white handkerchief, and you wouldn't even have to exercise your vocal cords by uttering a thank you.

Any opinions? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

 

C'mon, c'mon...keep it comin'. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/popcorn2.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ballz @ April 19, 2006, 1:40 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Hey DS, I think he was being sarcastic. Thats how I took it.
[/b][/quote]
Saying I'm a liar isn't sarcasm. What am I lying about. I am just telling everyone what my experience has been trying to buy a Cobra.

I can't even find a dealer that can or will order one and I am a liar, and low life because I said I would pay more than sticker.

I'll just chalk it up for the "voice" having a bad hair day.

 

Why do the majority of people demonize dealerships and most car salesmen? Let me see...
Last December, I took a few days off work to try and order a Mustang GT. At one dealership, (Cutter Ford, Waipahu) I wanted to take up an offer to buy a vehicle off the lot for "under MSRP" - no go. The best they could give me was - $1.00! Really. I overheard the sales manager grumbling over that, even. He pretty much said (to the salesman, not me, that I can take it or leave it.) I thanked the salesman and left quickly, letting them know with my finger they were "#1".
I also visited another dealer (Windward Ford, Kailua) and met a salesman who happened to be related to one of my aunts. When he found out my last name, he said he would "give me a break by not including AMV." Rrrriiiight... When it was finally time for a quote (for ordering the same vehicle as at the other dealership), it was actually more than at the other dealer! Yay. When I tried to counter-offer, the sales manager there said, "How am I supposed to make money?" Umm, OK. I don't recall asking for a free car or anywhere below invoice. (Actually, the offer was a thousand below MSRP). I felt so disgusted, I wished I went to work instead of taking (wasting) those days off. I realize isht like this doesn't only happen at Ford dealerships, but it's not hard to see why they and their salepeople are generally revilled. For the FEW honest and sincere ones out there, more power to you. And yes, I know what capitalism is and won't begrudge those willing to make a profit from those willing to pay whatever it takes to get theirs - free country, right? I'm just as free to buy from another manufacturer. Still, the vibe I felt really sickened me.

DS, I think what Ballz was trying to say had more to do with PACETTR's post about buyers lying more than the salesmen when they visit dealerships. It was more a sarcastic response to those dealers not willing to entertain your offer for a GT500 'vert, seeing as how much you are willing to pay - even though the most people don't feel, looking at it simply as a car, it worth paying anything over MSRP. How about directly asking some of the salespeople on this forum for help?

 

DS, I think what Ballz was trying to say had more to do with PACETTR's post about buyers lying more than the salesmen when they visit dealerships. It was more a sarcastic response to those dealers not willing to entertain your offer for a GT500 'vert, seeing as how much you are willing to pay - even though the most people don't feel, looking at it simply as a car, it worth paying anything over MSRP. How about directly asking some of the salespeople on this forum for help?
[/quote]

I am open to placing an order when I find a legitimate Ford dealer.

 

I always find these topics strange.

You can't have it both ways. If you want to live in a "you pay MSRP and not a penny more" world, then you would have to accept "you pay MSRP and not a penny LESS" as well.

If dealers were selling ALL of their vehicles at MSRP, and not at ridiculous amounts BELOW MSRP, the auto industry would be in much better shape. Just take a look in the newspaper... you can lease $35,000+ vehicles for $100-something a month. That's insane! I leased a well equiped Dodge Durango last September because the monthly payment was the same price it would have cost me to store the Mustang in an off-site garage for the winter!

The problem isn't that the dealers are charging AMV for the Shelby - they did it with the Mustang GT, the Ford GT, the Thunderbird, etc. You will pay a premium to own whatever the "hot car of the moment" is at the time. Deal with it.

The problem lies in how the dealers treat their customers. Not ALL dealers of course. At every dealership, you'll have a mix of salespeople with great people skills, and others with no people skills. Take a guess which group lasts longer in the business and makes more money?

The problem is respect, which is a two-way street of course. Whenever one party disrespects the other (and it happens on both sides... all the time), the other party will leave the experience pissed off. In dswhalen's scenario, it seems to me the biggest problem is respect. If someone makes an offer and gets laughed at, that's a total lack of respect. If I owned that dealer and heard that any of my customers had been treated like that, I would personally call the customer and formally reprimand the salesperson.

As for the AMV... it's been stated on this forum many, many times before - the price for every vehicle will reflect what the market will bear. 99% of vehicles sell for below MSRP these days. Very few sell at or above. If you don't like the price a dealer gives you, negotiate a better deal. If you can't, go to another dealer. If you can't get a better price from ANY dealer, wait until the price comes down. It really is that simple.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1 BULLITT @ April 19, 2006, 2:39 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Would you pass a lie detector test without taking prescribed muscle relaxants?
I feel for dswhalen. First he gets laughed out a couple of dealers for flashing $10K, now he lies more than the "a**holes" he encountered. Rodney Dangerfield must have been his idol. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
That's true. I usually speak for and appeal to those who value character, integrity, and specially, a man's word.
Well, as a whole, your "image issues" were created not by the customers or any TMS member but by your brothers in arms. As a matter of fact, at least two of your compatriots have royally screwed two TMS members and if you do some research you might come to the conclusion that your two berated fellow members are no longer invited to their Christmas Parties.
Do I have a great memory or what? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]
That's exactly my point. The concept of appreciation, or lack of.
[/b][/quote]
Yes, I would pass a lie detector test.
I can't help the fact that you have no first-hand knowledge of dealing with car buyers for a living. Do you buy cars for a living? Didn't think so. Get back to me when you have bought as many cars as I have sold. You wouldn't know how many customers lie because you don't have to deal with them. You are probably a perfect customer who only tells the truth at all times and always buys from the same dealer. You are in the minority.
A man's word; as in "I'll be back later with my spouse"?
Integrity; as in agreeing to a purchase and backing out?
BTW...it's "Especially"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RMac @ April 19, 2006, 7:59 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I always find these topics strange.

You can't have it both ways. If you want to live in a "you pay MSRP and not a penny more" world, then you would have to accept "you pay MSRP and not a penny LESS" as well.

If dealers were selling ALL of their vehicles at MSRP, and not at ridiculous amounts BELOW MSRP, the auto industry would be in much better shape. Just take a look in the newspaper... you can lease $35,000+ vehicles for $100-something a month. That's insane! I leased a well equiped Dodge Durango last September because the monthly payment was the same price it would have cost me to store the Mustang in an off-site garage for the winter!

The problem isn't that the dealers are charging AMV for the Shelby - they did it with the Mustang GT, the Ford GT, the Thunderbird, etc. You will pay a premium to own whatever the "hot car of the moment" is at the time. Deal with it.

The problem lies in how the dealers treat their customers. Not ALL dealers of course. At every dealership, you'll have a mix of salespeople with great people skills, and others with no people skills. Take a guess which group lasts longer in the business and makes more money?

The problem is respect, which is a two-way street of course. Whenever one party disrespects the other (and it happens on both sides... all the time), the other party will leave the experience pissed off. In dswhalen's scenario, it seems to me the biggest problem is respect. If someone makes an offer and gets laughed at, that's a total lack of respect. If I owned that dealer and heard that any of my customers had been treated like that, I would personally call the customer and formally reprimand the salesperson.

As for the AMV... it's been stated on this forum many, many times before - the price for every vehicle will reflect what the market will bear. 99% of vehicles sell for below MSRP these days. Very few sell at or above. If you don't like the price a dealer gives you, negotiate a better deal. If you can't, go to another dealer. If you can't get a better price from ANY dealer, wait until the price comes down. It really is that simple.
[/b][/quote]
THIS guy should be the voice of TMS, not some holier-than-thou know-it-all. Very well put on both sides. I understand there are PLENTY of idiot salesmen out there; I have seen alot of them in my eight years with the SAME dealer. I take offense to the bashing not for the idiots dswhalen spoke to, but for myself and others like me who care about customers and try to help them as much as we can. I didn't lie my way into my position, I worked hard and earned it. If I could reasonably entertain dswhalen's offer I certainly would; I, however, am not the owner of the dealership.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dswhalen @ April 19, 2006, 7:28 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Saying I'm a liar isn't sarcasm. What am I lying about. I am just telling everyone what my experience has been trying to buy a Cobra.

I can't even find a dealer that can or will order one and I am a liar, and low life because I said I would pay more than sticker.

I'll just chalk it up for the "voice" having a bad hair day.
[/b][/quote]
He wasn't calling you a liar, but does he even HAVE hair? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/22.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]

 

If I could reasonably entertain dswhalen's offer I certainly would; I, however, am not the owner of the dealership.
[/quote]

I should add a note: A lot of the dealers I spoke with were very decent. They said they were waiting for their allocation and auctioning the slots, or they had deposits for every one. There were a bunch of idiots that were smug and told me I was out of line (more or less).

I think I have a line on a dealer that will let me know if I can place an order this Friday. I will let all of you know.

I think it would be naive to think I could buy one for list price. I wish I could. I booked out my Mustang using Edmunds TMV and it has only depreciated $3000 from one year ago when I bought it. Very cool.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PACETTR @ April 20, 2006, 12:26 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
BTW...it's "Especially"
[/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl2.gif[/img]

R E A L L Y ? ? ? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/what.gif[/img] NO KIDDING!!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/jaw.gif[/img]

I can clearly understand why your experience expands to eight years... professionally speaking.

BTW, the Webster's paperback is only $4.99 at Wal-Mart. Who knows? Perhaps a visit there might even turn out to be a career advancement opportunity.

Enjoy your reading! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

 

You should try and get ahold of ISELLFORD...Ed I beleive is his name. He is a member on here if you arent aware of him. Seems like a straight up guy and a good sales person. Read his posts and he is never condescending, arrogant, or a know it all. He just posts the accurate info he has been given. He posted a month or so ago about selling a few at MSRP. I dont know if he has allocation left or not but its worth a shot. He is in Texas though but hey for a reasonable price wtf is a plane flight?[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] And I understand where you are coming from on the dealer thing. I spent a few days recently calling around Maine, NH, and Mass to try and get one at MSRP or one period. I was laughed at, treated rudely, and told when I could find one that I had to leve a 10K no refundable deposit and then I could try and bid on it. heck one place the wench, and I use that term nicely, told me that they already ordered one so I would have to leave my 10K and take grabber orange or none at all. People like that a POS's IMO. Not because they are car sales people but because they are scum. I dont care what your profession is. Treat someone the way you want to be treated. They should remember that someone is going to pay their rape charge and for that kind of money they should be licking someones a*s not treating them like a piece of garbage.

 

If you guys had been around here as long as George has, you would prob understand him better. Most of his posts are sarcastic. Hence, the custom title. He is not really the voice of TMS.

ds, he wasn't calling you a liar, he was arguing with pace about him calling customers liars.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1 BULLITT @ April 20, 2006, 5:51 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl2.gif[/img]

R E A L L Y ? ? ? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/what.gif[/img] NO KIDDING!!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/jaw.gif[/img]

I can clearly understand why your experience expands to eight years... professionally speaking.

BTW, the Webster's paperback is only $4.99 at Wal-Mart. Who knows? Perhaps a visit there might even turn out to be a career advancement opportunity.

Enjoy your reading! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
I wonder if I could get you a loan for that $4.99? Can you put money down for the tax?

BTW, the edit button is at the bottom of your posts... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/slap.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BC_Shelby @ April 17, 2006, 8:58 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
No, it's capitalism run amok: just like lobbying, special interests and American middle class jobs outsourced overseas. What's good for corporate America isn't necessarily good for the consumer.

Canada is a market-based economy, too, but we have certain strategic laws in place to protect consumers from things like AMVs.
[/b][/quote]

But I guess it's good for the consumer that the Canadian government rapes you with taxes compared to the United States.

Here, this is from Wikipedia:

"Taxation

The average tax rate in Canada is higher than in the United States. In Canada total tax revenue for every level of government equals about 43% of GDP ([1]), compared to the U.S. rate of only 25.6% ([2]). In 1999, Canada's total tax burden is 48% of income for a family of four with average income. This is 14% higher than in the United States, a leading cause of brain drain to the USA. [3] There is some regional variation, however. A resident of oil rich Alberta may pay roughly equal taxes to a resident of high tax Maine, but a resident of low tax New Hampshire pays much less than a resident of Alberta.

The taxes are applied differently as well. Canada's income tax system is more heavily biased against the highest income earners, thus while Canada's income tax rate is higher on average, the bottom fifty percent of the population is roughly taxed the same on income as in the United States. However, when considering Canada has a national sales tax of 7% on all purchases, while the U.S. federal government has no sales tax at all, Canadian low-income earners are thus more burdened by taxes than their low-income American counterparts because a sales tax is regressive by nature."

 

[quote name='Webba' date='April 20, 2006, 5:54 AM' post='667652']
You should try and get ahold of ISELLFORD...Ed I beleive is his name. He is a member on here if you arent aware of him. Seems like a straight up guy and a good sales person. Read his posts and he is never condescending, arrogant, or a know it all. He just posts the accurate info he has been given. He posted a month or so ago about selling a few at MSRP. I dont know if he has allocation left or not but its worth a shot. He is in Texas though but hey for a reasonable price wtf is a plane flight?[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

Just when I was starting to like you, you call me a Texan [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] . I am in IL, grew up in Philly.

We are probably going to get 3 Shelby's. I personally have 6 deposits. The 3 are at MSRP and I told the others I would try to get them cars and let them know how much it would cost since I would probably have to go on the open market to buy them from another dealer if at all possible. I also told them they could decide if they wanted the car or if they just wanted their deposit back. The 17 salespeople in the sales department are not real happy with me since they in essence do not have a Shelby to sell since I already have the entire allocation sold. {Hey if they were on the ball, they could have done the same thing but most of them don't have a clue].

PS _ Dave , I would love to place a Shelby Vert order for you at your offer if i had one extra to give.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PACETTR @ April 20, 2006, 9:12 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I wonder if I could get you a loan for that $4.99? Can you put money down for the tax?

BTW, the edit button is at the bottom of your posts... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/slap.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl2.gif[/img]

Thanks. That's a great feature and one quite useful for the intellectually challanged. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">"This post has been edited by PACETTR: Today, 09:21 AM"</span>


[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]

 

Isellfords,
I will be in Chicago for a medical meeting mid May. If you can find an allocation let me know. ds

 

Here, allow me to provide some assistance for those with vision problems:

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">"I will be in Chicago for a medical meeting mid May... "</span>

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img]


[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1 BULLITT @ April 20, 2006, 9:02 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Here, allow me to provide some assistance for those with vision problems:

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">"I will be in Chicago for a medical meeting mid May... "</span>

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

You are perceptive since it is a vision meeting. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1 BULLITT @ April 20, 2006, 11:23 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl2.gif[/img]

Thanks. That's a great feature and one quite useful for the intellectually challanged. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">"This post has been edited by PACETTR: Today, 09:21 AM"</span>
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Also useful for those who can't spell or have vocabulary problems. I just wanted to make sure you knew where it was when(if) your loan gets approved.
I thought it a good hint... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]