2010-2014 Mustang Information on The S197 {GenII}

Why doesn't the 2011 V6 get the selectshift

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Old Feb 13, 2010 | 04:54 PM
  #41  
Tony Alonso's Avatar
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Price points, market demographics, direct competitors...could be any of those (or all of them). If I was a product planner on Mustang, and I had to make the business case, I would probably be looking at many, many factors and be trying hard to see if the target customer would really value this.

I have used the select shift feature on my wife's MINI (I know this is not directly comparable here), and I found it to be somewhat of a performance inhibitor because of the speed of the shift. I tried the system on a C6 Corvette, and I found it to be similarly functioning.

I would love to drive a Ferrari F430 or 458 with the paddle shifters because that is my impossibly high cost (for me anyway) benchmark for this type of arrangement.
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Old Feb 13, 2010 | 05:18 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Dave07997S
Yes someone who gets it...

For those of you who don't get it and are willing to accept mediocrity are actually enablers allowing Ford to build subpar cars with the attitiude that once again.."almost is good enough". When it obviously isn't good enough, hence the current state of the US car market and why other (foreign) makes keep gaining in market share. Ford is on the right track and you mark my words if not in 2012 then the next generation Mustang will have it. I just don't understand why the car doesn't have it now after putting a brand spanking new V6. Its not like they have to reinvent the wheel here, the tranny is already in the parts bin along with the select shift.

Dave
I would argue that offering a "select shift" type transmission is the very definition of mediocrity. Every single review that I've ever read (online, in published magazines and in forums like this) has said the same thing: 98% of owners will use it once or twice and then forget about it. The drag racing arguement is moot: a properly designed and tuned auto will turn in the best times on it's own. After all, the whole point of an auto tranny is to shift itself. For the rare occasions where the automatic owner feels the need to shift themselves there is the existing D-3-2-1 shift gate.

I applaud Ford for not offering this redundant gimmick. I believe a world class automobile manufacturer is one that chooses to lower overall cost and weight (even by miniscule amounts) by not secumbing to every little wish of the masses. Put simply: the masses are often wrong.

For the record, I also don't "get" steering wheel mounted audio controls. I am all for luxury convenience items on a car: power windors, locks, trunk, heated leather seats, GPS navigation, reverse cameras, sat radio, digital media...all great to have. I'll take a heated steering wheel and mirrors as well (I am Canadian.) However, when you have a well designed, ergonomic interior where the audio controls are convenient and within close range of the driver, why do you need duplicate controls a few inches away?
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Old Feb 13, 2010 | 10:00 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by laserred38
Obviously there can be no middle ground here, and since Ford has decided NOT to put this feature in the Mustang at this time, it is a moot point.

BUT, I will reply to this lol. Well, I will definitely be trying to teach my spouse how to drive stick when I get my 10/11, but I wouldn't NOT marry her for not learning. She will definitely try though. It's just a safety issue, IMO. I don't see why we don't HAVE to learn manual in driver's ed anymore. What if you are driving with a friend who has a MT car and he collapses, and you're in the middle of no where. You're F'ed.
I'm not trying to pick on you, Patrick, I'm just having some fun. It would be an interesting poll question.

Scenario: You're single, in love, and you've just proposed. Your girlfriend/boyfriend says "Sure, honey, there's just one thing. You've got to get rid of that Mustang and buy a car with an automatic so I can drive it, too." What do you do?

A. Rescind the proposal.
B. Do as she/he asks.
C. Negotiate for some other, less painful sacrifice.
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Old Feb 13, 2010 | 10:38 PM
  #44  
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I vote rescind the proposal.
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Old Feb 17, 2010 | 01:43 PM
  #45  
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While I would agree they would be nice to have, I would also echo the sentiment that paddle shifters are basically useless. I've had two automatic cars in my life, and both of them either had paddle shifters, or a manual shift mode (mazda3) and it was not good at all. The shifts were incredibly slow / lagged and overall it just felt as if there was no real purpose to them. If it's a matter of saving money, I think Ford made the right choice, because overall I bet most people who get paddle shifters very rarely use them.
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Old Feb 17, 2010 | 02:15 PM
  #46  
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Also, let's take a minute and look at the paddle shifters. All the units ford and Mazda currently use are a sinlge clutch style... I have the Mazda6, drove the CX7 and 9, C6 Vette, new SHO and my brother in law had the paddles in his Acura RDX..... All I can say is LAG! It shifts at the same speed as the normal automatic, it just lets you choose when the shift happens... In this method, they are gimmicky and only good for the point of holding a gear in traffic as previously mentioned....


Now lets look at the other end of the spectrum - Porsche PDK, M-B Speed Shift 7, BMW DSG..... This is where you understand the beauty of the automanual! I've driven all three. You cannot shift a clutch car faster than these transmissions, you can double downshift, they blip the throttle to match RPM for you... When you drive one of these cars in stick "all out" and then hop in the same car with the automanual, you understand the difference... For Mustang... Stick or auto.... For these higher ends (and maybe the GT500 in the future to cross over to the sportcar world) A dual clutch style automanual is something to experience...
This I would use 90% of the time, and would eventually get over not having a third pedal.


I'd just go to the garage and pull out the Shelby when I want to feel the clutch again!
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Old Feb 18, 2010 | 11:22 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by WarpdSpazm
Also, let's take a minute and look at the paddle shifters. All the units ford and Mazda currently use are a sinlge clutch style... I have the Mazda6, drove the CX7 and 9, C6 Vette, new SHO and my brother in law had the paddles in his Acura RDX..... All I can say is LAG! It shifts at the same speed as the normal automatic, it just lets you choose when the shift happens... In this method, they are gimmicky and only good for the point of holding a gear in traffic as previously mentioned....


Now lets look at the other end of the spectrum - Porsche PDK, M-B Speed Shift 7, BMW DSG..... This is where you understand the beauty of the automanual! I've driven all three. You cannot shift a clutch car faster than these transmissions, you can double downshift, they blip the throttle to match RPM for you... When you drive one of these cars in stick "all out" and then hop in the same car with the automanual, you understand the difference... For Mustang... Stick or auto.... For these higher ends (and maybe the GT500 in the future to cross over to the sportcar world) A dual clutch style automanual is something to experience...
This I would use 90% of the time, and would eventually get over not having a third pedal.


I'd just go to the garage and pull out the Shelby when I want to feel the clutch again!
This is a very good post! I don't disagree with Dave that the mustang should have it as its competitors do, but its all in the details! Execution means everything! I have driven many, many vehicles with paddles or manu-matic. NONE of them executed properly. Hopefully we will skip the paddles and go straight to a DSG!
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Old Feb 20, 2010 | 12:18 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by FordBlueHeart
This is a very good post! I don't disagree with Dave that the mustang should have it as its competitors do, but its all in the details! Execution means everything! I have driven many, many vehicles with paddles or manu-matic. NONE of them executed properly. Hopefully we will skip the paddles and go straight to a DSG!
I agree completely, execution is everything. I drove an 09 BMW 335i with its paddle shifters...outstanding for a real automatic tranny although there was still a tad bit of lag, not as bad as the Fusion Sport I drove but still there. The auto car is just as quick as the manual 335. The Fusions select shift feature is neat that it allows you to keep in gear with the tach bouncing of the rev limiter, the lag is horrific though. This can be corrected with software updates , its just Ford is choosing a softer approach to these cars. If its in a Mustang it should be implemented at least to the execution of the 335i. Don't get me wrong I'm still a manual guy..

Now lets look at the other end of the spectrum - Porsche PDK, M-B Speed Shift 7, BMW DSG
Actually BMW uses a DCT, its VW that uses the DSG, respectfully. You're right though this is where Ford should be as far as an autotranny. Or at least offer it as an option...I know we can't have everything.




Dave

Last edited by Dave07997S; Feb 20, 2010 at 12:23 PM.
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Old Feb 21, 2010 | 02:02 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Dave07997S
I agree completely, execution is everything. I drove an 09 BMW 335i with its paddle shifters...outstanding for a real automatic tranny although there was still a tad bit of lag, not as bad as the Fusion Sport I drove but still there. The auto car is just as quick as the manual 335. The Fusions select shift feature is neat that it allows you to keep in gear with the tach bouncing of the rev limiter, the lag is horrific though. This can be corrected with software updates , its just Ford is choosing a softer approach to these cars. If its in a Mustang it should be implemented at least to the execution of the 335i. Don't get me wrong I'm still a manual guy..

Actually BMW uses a DCT, its VW that uses the DSG, respectfully. You're right though this is where Ford should be as far as an autotranny. Or at least offer it as an option...I know we can't have everything.




Dave

Ford has a Dual clutch automated manual in Europe. I don't recall what they call it. I believe it's coming to the US in the 2012 Focus. Don't know whether that particular unit can handle 305 hp though.
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Old Feb 21, 2010 | 02:31 PM
  #50  
Adam's Avatar
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Originally Posted by WarpdSpazm
Also, let's take a minute and look at the paddle shifters. All the units ford and Mazda currently use are a sinlge clutch style... I have the Mazda6, drove the CX7 and 9, C6 Vette, new SHO and my brother in law had the paddles in his Acura RDX..... All I can say is LAG! It shifts at the same speed as the normal automatic, it just lets you choose when the shift happens... In this method, they are gimmicky and only good for the point of holding a gear in traffic as previously mentioned....


Now lets look at the other end of the spectrum - Porsche PDK, M-B Speed Shift 7, BMW DSG..... This is where you understand the beauty of the automanual! I've driven all three. You cannot shift a clutch car faster than these transmissions, you can double downshift, they blip the throttle to match RPM for you... When you drive one of these cars in stick "all out" and then hop in the same car with the automanual, you understand the difference... For Mustang... Stick or auto.... For these higher ends (and maybe the GT500 in the future to cross over to the sportcar world) A dual clutch style automanual is something to experience...
This I would use 90% of the time, and would eventually get over not having a third pedal.


I'd just go to the garage and pull out the Shelby when I want to feel the clutch again!
That's why I went with a manual tranny. When Ford finally puts a DSG transmission into a Mustang I'll make the switch. Only three years to go - crossing my fingers for 2014

Last edited by Adam; Feb 21, 2010 at 02:32 PM.
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Old Feb 21, 2010 | 02:55 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by AWmustang
Ford has a Dual clutch automated manual in Europe. I don't recall what they call it. I believe it's coming to the US in the 2012 Focus. Don't know whether that particular unit can handle 305 hp though.
It will be in the Fiesta first. This year.
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Old Feb 21, 2010 | 07:52 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by AWmustang
Ford has a Dual clutch automated manual in Europe. I don't recall what they call it. I believe it's coming to the US in the 2012 Focus. Don't know whether that particular unit can handle 305 hp though.
Correct they do..the one that's being offered on the Fiesta though it can't handle the rear wheel drive and 280lbs. of torque. The Focus as you point out will get one as well, and there is one that has been used on the Focus RS in its 300hp glory but all FWD.

Dave
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