TSB concerning aftermarket tuning and modifications
#101
Scare tactics... Why? That makes no sense. Ford doesn't get hurt nor do they benefit by you modding your car. I for one am glad that they just came out and said it instead of burying it in fine print or leaving it fuzzy enough so that you feel screwed. All they are saying is that if you mod your car with a tune and the engine blows up it's your responsibility to get it fixed, not theirs.
#102
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Hello all,
Just to clarify, your New Vehicle Limited Warranty is 3 years or 36,000 miles bumper-to-bumper and 5 years or 60,000 on your Powertrain. This info can also be found in your warranty guide.
Deysha
Hello all,
Just to clarify, your New Vehicle Limited Warranty is 3 years or 36,000 miles bumper-to-bumper and 5 years or 60,000 on your Powertrain. This info can also be found in your warranty guide.
Deysha
#103
Originally Posted by jaybertx
Scare tactics... Why? That makes no sense. Ford doesn't get hurt nor do they benefit by you modding your car. I for one am glad that they just came out and said it instead of burying it in fine print or leaving it fuzzy enough so that you feel screwed. All they are saying is that if you mod your car with a tune and the engine blows up it's your responsibility to get it fixed, not theirs.
#104
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Also lest we forget, GM explicitly states in their owners manuals pretty much what this TSB states. that said however, a coworker has a new camaro SS with a tune and had some random issue with his engine that he took it in for (with the tune still loaded) and they fixed the problem without any questions because it was totally unrelated to the tune.
#105
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The tuners are listening and responding. My dad got a Bama 93 octane race tune for his 5.0 at the beginning of the spring. At high RPM and WOT there was a nasty ping (more like a screech). He back off immediately. Coincidently a week later, Bama sent out an update file directly referencing the forums discussing no. 8 piston failure. With the new tune, the high rpm ping is gone, power is slightly down but still improved over stock, and the throttle response is still just as good as the original tune. So it seems that there was a problem that could be related directly to the tune that Ford isn't interested in paying for (although some would and have argued that the engine should not be this sensitive) but the tuners are adjusting and correcting issues.
#106
Shelby GT350 Member
Can you offer any advice to those of us who have installed tunes in our cars?
Specifically, would Ford automatically reject any engine warranty claim on the very basis of a tune having been installed, no matter how many miles nor how long ago?
My car had a tune in it for fewer than 1000 miles...but it has been back stock for a while. A couple days ago, I thought that I might have heard a "tick" from my motor and I had a moment of panic that if a problem did crop up, that I did myself in by running the Bama tune at one time.
Fortunately, I'm 99.99% sure the motor is just fine (I listened very closely for quite a while)...but the question lingers.
Any insight on this would be appreciated.
#107
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Thanks for the clarification, Deysha.
Can you offer any advice to those of us who have installed tunes in our cars?
Specifically, would Ford automatically reject any engine warranty claim on the very basis of a tune having been installed, no matter how many miles nor how long ago?
My car had a tune in it for fewer than 1000 miles...but it has been back stock for a while. A couple days ago, I thought that I might have heard a "tick" from my motor and I had a moment of panic that if a problem did crop up, that I did myself in by running the Bama tune at one time.
Fortunately, I'm 99.99% sure the motor is just fine (I listened very closely for quite a while)...but the question lingers.
Any insight on this would be appreciated.
Can you offer any advice to those of us who have installed tunes in our cars?
Specifically, would Ford automatically reject any engine warranty claim on the very basis of a tune having been installed, no matter how many miles nor how long ago?
My car had a tune in it for fewer than 1000 miles...but it has been back stock for a while. A couple days ago, I thought that I might have heard a "tick" from my motor and I had a moment of panic that if a problem did crop up, that I did myself in by running the Bama tune at one time.
Fortunately, I'm 99.99% sure the motor is just fine (I listened very closely for quite a while)...but the question lingers.
Any insight on this would be appreciated.
All I can recommend is that, any aftermarket part you’d like to add to your vehicle, have it installed by your Ford dealer. This avoids most mishaps with your warranty. However, if a specific aftermarket part causes a concern, that specific repair will not be covered by your Ford warranty, but by that aftermarket part’s warranty if it came with one. You can refer to your Warranty Guide on page 13 for further info.
Deysha
#108
I gotta wonder why Ford or Ford Racing isn't stepping up and offering some tuning tips or guidelines to the aftermarket as a whole, and to those who develop their own files.
While it is understood that Ford will be closely eye any engine warranty claims from people with tunes, having Ford's input would be nice. Since someone talked Intel Overclocking, you can go to their website, and they tell you on the specs page the voltage range, and the temperature range, thus allowing you to know the safe overclocking values.
I challenge Ford to come forward to work with the aftermarket and provide them some tuning guidelines, like don't tune the knock sensor beyond these values, don't alter the throttle input beyond these values, keep cam timing values between this and this, etc....
The Mustang aftermarket success is what keeps the Mustang alive. A healthy aftermarket is also good for the economy, and good for Ford vehicle sales. If people interested in buying new Mustang's see that Ford is working with the aftermarket to make things safer and better at the same time, I bet sales would pick up a little, plus reduce warranty claims at the same time.
While it is understood that Ford will be closely eye any engine warranty claims from people with tunes, having Ford's input would be nice. Since someone talked Intel Overclocking, you can go to their website, and they tell you on the specs page the voltage range, and the temperature range, thus allowing you to know the safe overclocking values.
I challenge Ford to come forward to work with the aftermarket and provide them some tuning guidelines, like don't tune the knock sensor beyond these values, don't alter the throttle input beyond these values, keep cam timing values between this and this, etc....
The Mustang aftermarket success is what keeps the Mustang alive. A healthy aftermarket is also good for the economy, and good for Ford vehicle sales. If people interested in buying new Mustang's see that Ford is working with the aftermarket to make things safer and better at the same time, I bet sales would pick up a little, plus reduce warranty claims at the same time.
- intellectual property: Ford and all manufacturers have a great deal of time and money invested into the development of an engine. By publishing the limitations of the engine management systems, you start exposing your intellectual property for what benifit?
- competitive advantage: GM, Chrysler, Toyota would just love to know the performance limitations of their competitor's products for free!
-EPA compliance: How do you think the conversation would go between the EPA and Ford if they published how to defeat the engine management system safe guards and control parameters? Mr. Ford... please write a check for xxx Million dollars as a penalty, payable to the US Treasury.
Re: Intel and Overclocking.... you can be a little more liberal on physical limitations when it does not reveal your internal design. What you propose on specific system tolerances is far beyond what Intel published.
Tuners have a niche, but they will have to learn their limitations as all hot rodders have over the years. Just ask Jack Roush how many engines he had toasted or blown up in the 70's during his Gapp n Roush days?
Buyers of tunes need to take the same ownership that the old school tuners did in the day.. trust me.. I have changed my share of metering rods, jets, power valves, advance springs, cams, pistons, etc. (If you have a puzzled look on your face what these are.. relax.. the analog method of tuning.. it was fun.. made you really think about what you were going to do) some combinations worked good.. others not so good.... Pissed off a few friends along the way too when we had to pick up the pieces.
#109
I Have No Life
Really easy in todays world to point and click somethings/change settings and not realize what potential consequences could be had in the short term or in the future.
Even if things look good now.
Another issue is the effect on parts as time goes on.
Not that Ford can predict how things turn out, but the aftermarket has only a small limited ammount of time or resources to spend on R&D and testing by comparison.
It's not that the engine (or in any case) parts can't take it, but why should Ford have to fit the bill for something another manufacturer/tuner fudges up?
There's a bunch of different roads to achieve HP and performance...how you get there MAY compromise the hardware.
Even if things look good now.
Another issue is the effect on parts as time goes on.
Not that Ford can predict how things turn out, but the aftermarket has only a small limited ammount of time or resources to spend on R&D and testing by comparison.
It's not that the engine (or in any case) parts can't take it, but why should Ford have to fit the bill for something another manufacturer/tuner fudges up?
There's a bunch of different roads to achieve HP and performance...how you get there MAY compromise the hardware.
#111
Mach 1 Member
Anyway, it seems like Ford's slipping back into their old habit of treating their fans and customers as potential thieves and criminals, respectively. Wasn't it one of these forums that got sued by Ford for putting out a Mustang calendar a decade or so ago? It's rather a shame, they seemed like they were starting to genuinely care for us.
And I've earned my right to an opinion; I've bought one of their cars. And it cost very nearly $40k. Sticker was higher than that. I love the car, just starting to like the company less.
#112
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I recall when they loosed their lawyers upon Blue Oval News a few years back over I forget what mortal transgression -- might have sounded good in the Ford legal department but was a terrible PR failure extraordinaire overall going legal goon over a FAN site (not like it was some evil competitor or something). The lasting impression was something like, "If that's how Ford treats its friends... "
Anyways, I would have hoped they would have learned from that but I guess there are tone-deaf pockets still within Dearborn, MI.
Perhaps rather than being recalcitrant, pissy and legalistic, Ford should get ahead of the tuner game rather than turning on such a huge and influential part of the Mustang customer base. Offer a range "offroad" tunes available through Ford Motorsports that they can at least have some control over all while earning hard cash and customer good will at the same time.
Anyways, I would have hoped they would have learned from that but I guess there are tone-deaf pockets still within Dearborn, MI.
Perhaps rather than being recalcitrant, pissy and legalistic, Ford should get ahead of the tuner game rather than turning on such a huge and influential part of the Mustang customer base. Offer a range "offroad" tunes available through Ford Motorsports that they can at least have some control over all while earning hard cash and customer good will at the same time.
#113
And you say you can't fight city hall.. and you think no one reads these posts?
Bama Tunes Warranty Post Info
Great news, see post: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...-warranty.html
Bama now covers cyl #8 failures on 2011-2012 5.0l
OK, not don't get to hard on them.. they have disclaimers and limits, just like Ford.
Congrads to Bama for listening to the concerns of the market.
Just goes to show.. if you do not ask, you will not get anything.
Lid Serra
2012 3.7L Lava Red Coupe
Bama Tunes Warranty Post Info
Great news, see post: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...-warranty.html
Bama now covers cyl #8 failures on 2011-2012 5.0l
OK, not don't get to hard on them.. they have disclaimers and limits, just like Ford.
Congrads to Bama for listening to the concerns of the market.
Just goes to show.. if you do not ask, you will not get anything.
Lid Serra
2012 3.7L Lava Red Coupe
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