TSB concerning aftermarket tuning and modifications
ahhhhh!
7/3/11, 10:08 AM
#42
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Been there done that too.. you'd be surprise how many cars/trucks get turned into bricks due to lightning strikes... these are easy to find... all the ECU's, engine, transmission, brake, body controllers are bricks and there's usually a burn mark somewhere on the body. I love reading the tech cases too.. they usually say something like: "I was just driving down xxxx and I saw a bright flash and heard a loud bang.. next thing I know it stalled."
Back to topic.. would you buy it if they told you you would be stuck.. the first clue something is wrong is the fact you need to flash it back to stock... but then again.. just my humble opinion.
Don't get me wrong.. If you want to tune.. have fun... even my company has a Motorsport group.... their latest project is a 1200 HP Cummins 5.9L for pulling.
The key differences.. OE tunes to let the engine live for 200k plus... our 1200 Cummins only has to live 50 hours, so we can push the envelope and components a little. How long does your tuner state and back their calibration will live?
Back to topic.. would you buy it if they told you you would be stuck.. the first clue something is wrong is the fact you need to flash it back to stock... but then again.. just my humble opinion.
Don't get me wrong.. If you want to tune.. have fun... even my company has a Motorsport group.... their latest project is a 1200 HP Cummins 5.9L for pulling.
The key differences.. OE tunes to let the engine live for 200k plus... our 1200 Cummins only has to live 50 hours, so we can push the envelope and components a little. How long does your tuner state and back their calibration will live?
I'm not against them or anything, the final burden is always on the end user, just seems like it's always brushed off. Appears that the Ford Racing/ProCal group is the only one that remotely puts any skin in the game. Come on guys, speak up.
7/3/11, 10:24 AM
#43
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Hum, all the guys at Amercian Muscle/Bama, Steeda and all the rest of the tuners sure are being mum on all this topic & thread. Sure would be nice to hear their side of the subject. Not stepping up and being quite just makes more suspicion. I'm not against them or anything, the final burden is always on the end user, just seems like it's always brushed off. Appears that the Ford Racing/ProCal group is the only one that remotely puts any skin in the game. Come on guys, speak up.
I'm not against them or anything, the final burden is always on the end user, just seems like it's always brushed off. Appears that the Ford Racing/ProCal group is the only one that remotely puts any skin in the game. Come on guys, speak up.You want a warranty with that? Prepare to pay a whole lot more for the product. How many owners are prepared for that? few I'd guess. Tuners build a reputation over time with satisfied customers. The game is "more is better" (unlike the FRPP tunes) and that's what seems to sell to the Mustang crowd. Do your research, make your pick. These guys wouldn't still be in business if they were blowing motors left and right. The final burden is ALWAYS on the end user and the decisions he/she makes..
No whining..
7/3/11, 10:47 AM
#44
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What exactly do you want them to say? They make their living selling performance parts and tunes to enhance performance (not longevity). Tweaking factory tunes has been done forever on most platforms out there.
You want a warranty with that? Prepare to pay a whole lot more for the product. How many owners are prepared for that? few I'd guess. Tuners build a reputation over time with satisfied customers. The game is "more is better" (unlike the FRPP tunes) and that's what seems to sell to the Mustang crowd. Do your research, make your pick. These guys wouldn't still be in business if they were blowing motors left and right. The final burden is ALWAYS on the end user and the decisions he/she makes..
No whining..
You want a warranty with that? Prepare to pay a whole lot more for the product. How many owners are prepared for that? few I'd guess. Tuners build a reputation over time with satisfied customers. The game is "more is better" (unlike the FRPP tunes) and that's what seems to sell to the Mustang crowd. Do your research, make your pick. These guys wouldn't still be in business if they were blowing motors left and right. The final burden is ALWAYS on the end user and the decisions he/she makes..
No whining..
7/3/11, 11:59 AM
#45
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Here, I think this is more a case of Ford pushing the design limits with their own tune. It is well publicized that the 5.0 factory calibration uses knock sensing to push the timing to the safe limits. This is new since the 5.0 came out, [This was new with the 08 Bullitt 4.6.] and leaves little room for the tuners to make gains safely. The tuners, who naturally want to have a product to sell, are forced into operating in the unsafe part of the control envelope.
Consider your car to "factory tuned". Nothing more is really needed.
Consider your car to "factory tuned". Nothing more is really needed.
Guys, let's make something clear; this isn't the same type of motor the 4.6 was. There are many new levels of complexity in the Coyote that the older 4.6s just didn't have. I think right now, some of these "old school" tuners are the ones that are in the worst predicament. You can't apply the same school of thought from the 4.6 on this motor. If you do, you're asking for trouble.
When Ford Racing did the testing on my car, they expressed this to me. They go through the rigors that Ford does as an OEM. They don't disable the safety systems designed into the PCM to squeak out extra power. Sure, they may not make the most power, but if they do so in a safe manner, then the peace of mind is worth the slight loss IMO.
I think it's safe to say that the days of aggressive tuning in the Mustang are coming to an end...
When Ford Racing did the testing on my car, they expressed this to me. They go through the rigors that Ford does as an OEM. They don't disable the safety systems designed into the PCM to squeak out extra power. Sure, they may not make the most power, but if they do so in a safe manner, then the peace of mind is worth the slight loss IMO.
I think it's safe to say that the days of aggressive tuning in the Mustang are coming to an end...
If it was back in the day with real pistons there would probably be more leeway with the higher compression but judging by those pics, the 5.0 is leaving the factory pretty near maxed with factory pistons/rods. Too much 'push to the edge' by tuners with A/F or timing and look what happens.
Last edited by cdynaco; 7/3/11 at 12:13 PM.
7/3/11, 12:01 PM
#46
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What exactly do you want them to say? They make their living selling performance parts and tunes to enhance performance (not longevity). Tweaking factory tunes has been done forever on most platforms out there.
You want a warranty with that? Prepare to pay a whole lot more for the product. How many owners are prepared for that? few I'd guess. Tuners build a reputation over time with satisfied customers. The game is "more is better" (unlike the FRPP tunes) and that's what seems to sell to the Mustang crowd. Do your research, make your pick. These guys wouldn't still be in business if they were blowing motors left and right. The final burden is ALWAYS on the end user and the decisions he/she makes..
No whining..
You want a warranty with that? Prepare to pay a whole lot more for the product. How many owners are prepared for that? few I'd guess. Tuners build a reputation over time with satisfied customers. The game is "more is better" (unlike the FRPP tunes) and that's what seems to sell to the Mustang crowd. Do your research, make your pick. These guys wouldn't still be in business if they were blowing motors left and right. The final burden is ALWAYS on the end user and the decisions he/she makes..
No whining..
Modshack... you hit the the nail on the head... Just know what your getting... ask questions.. there are a lot of professional tuners out there that can safely tweak a few more HP out of a stock motor.
You have to remember... an OE calibration has to work in all 50 states, at all temperatures and altitudes, still meet emissions and meet CAFE standards... it's not easy, it's all about compromises. That's why OE's have reflash.. the cal is not always perfect for everyone.
Tuners fit a niche in the market. The ones that cause trouble is when they push the envelope beyond what the physical parts, or the fuel can handle. So long as you are informed and ready for some risk.. have at it and enjoy. Just don't expect the OE to pay if you got too aggressive.
7/3/11, 01:22 PM
#47
Cobra Member
What exactly do you want them to say? They make their living selling performance parts and tunes to enhance performance (not longevity). Tweaking factory tunes has been done forever on most platforms out there.
You want a warranty with that? Prepare to pay a whole lot more for the product. How many owners are prepared for that? few I'd guess. Tuners build a reputation over time with satisfied customers. The game is "more is better" (unlike the FRPP tunes) and that's what seems to sell to the Mustang crowd. Do your research, make your pick. These guys wouldn't still be in business if they were blowing motors left and right. The final burden is ALWAYS on the end user and the decisions he/she makes..
No whining..
You want a warranty with that? Prepare to pay a whole lot more for the product. How many owners are prepared for that? few I'd guess. Tuners build a reputation over time with satisfied customers. The game is "more is better" (unlike the FRPP tunes) and that's what seems to sell to the Mustang crowd. Do your research, make your pick. These guys wouldn't still be in business if they were blowing motors left and right. The final burden is ALWAYS on the end user and the decisions he/she makes..
No whining..
7/3/11, 02:23 PM
#48
7/3/11, 02:32 PM
#49
7/3/11, 03:52 PM
#50
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7/3/11, 09:11 PM
#51
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WTF. I'm talking about a warranty with a tune. FRPP has one. The only problem is that their tune sucks.......Got it now ?
Last edited by TheReaper; 7/3/11 at 09:16 PM.
7/4/11, 07:34 AM
#55
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Ahh, good luck with this. Bring this to the dealer and he would shove it up your **** with a roman candle on it. The warranty is specific, change the design paramaters for which the car or part was designed for and they can void your warranty.
The Magnuson act was mainly created so a manafacturer couldn't void your warranty because you used a Fram airfilter vs. a Motorcraft.
Dave
The Magnuson act was mainly created so a manafacturer couldn't void your warranty because you used a Fram airfilter vs. a Motorcraft.
Dave
7/4/11, 07:37 AM
#56
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7/4/11, 07:52 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by RedCandy5.0
Like Lund says with the 11:1 compression you need to set the A/F command 12.0-12.2 and tune it like a car with 3-4lbs of boost. Keep the KS stock.
7/4/11, 09:06 AM
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7/4/11, 09:07 AM
#59
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For example, if you bought your car in October of 2010, and have 18k miles on the odometer now, and then go to the Ford dealer for the FRPP Pro-Cal Tune installation, follow the registration procedures, etc.. the warranty coverage supplied by FRPP for your vehicles powertrain goes into effect, leaving you with warranty coverage through October of 2013, or the remaining 18k miles until you reach 36k miles on the odometer.
One other catch, the FRPP warranty also states that it REPLACES any other warranty in effect, or any extended warranty you purchased. So if you payed extra for an extended warranty up to 60k, 75k, or 100k miles, while still in effect, you lose anything engine related past 36k miles.
All the warranty details I referenced above are clearly stated on the FordRacingParts website, here.
Here is the important part:
warranted for factory-supplied material or workmanship,when installed by an authorized Ford Dealer or Shelby Automotive, Inc, beginning upon dealer installation and registration of the part(s) with Ford Racing for the balance of 3 years or 36,000 miles / 60,000 kilometres, whichever occurs first, from the manufacturer's New Vehicle Limited Warranty start date. This Limited Warranty replaces the existing manufacturer's New Vehicle Limited Warranty for engine, driveline and suspension parts when a concern is triggered by a warranted Ford Racing part. All engine, driveline and suspension warranty issues not related to installation of Ford racing parts remain subject to existing manufacturer's New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Last edited by kn7671; 7/4/11 at 09:16 AM.
7/4/11, 11:37 AM
#60
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