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Yeah, the shops around here are charging me anywhere from 700-1000 for labor to install Headers and H/X pipe. After it's all said and done, I think I'll be close to 3k too ugh...
I think I want the H too. I think the power/flow advantage I would gain with the X is minimal at the power levels I already am at. I'm fine with my current power levels.
Wow... sounds like everyone is going H. I've had X for so long, I forget what it's like to have an H
As for the ceramic coating and/or heat wrapping, is the ONLY benefit heat dissipation? What will be the issue if I don't do any of that, and just use the Kooks headers as is? Will it just be a potential loss (somewhat) of power? Or am I looking at long term reliability issues, etc?
Another question I have, this whole thread has been Kooks Kooks Kooks. I understand they're a go to brand, but does anyone have any experience with American Racing or JBA? My shop says they also using American Racing, which is somewhat cheaper, but they also believe it's actually better-fitting, and better quality. Any truth to that? I looked on their selection, and they don't have a "Green Cat" like Kooks does. So I'm guessing they will have to either relocated the O2 sensor, or there will be a CEL that the tuner will have to tune out
Silly boy Burton, nothing sounds as sweet at a methanol injected 410, not even a Coyote with Corsa’s on it! I would add few things smell as good too!
Ceramic coating will keep the heat inside the pipe. This has two benefits: a) it helps lower under-hood temperature, b) keeping the heat inside the pipe increases the exhaust gas velocity. This helps breathing and scavenging. It also keeps corrosion off the pipes maintaining your show car under-hood appearance.
From what I can see, I think Kooks is mentioned more often than others because they actually built a very good piece. It looks to me like a lot of the others compromised for ease of fitment and/or installation. One of the overriding objectives for a header is to produce a primary that has the same back pressure from cylinder to cylinder. One of the chief ways to do this is to have equal length primary tubes. Keep in mind each bend in a given primary offers resistance to flow as well. So if the guy who designed them used his head and a flow bench, each of the primaries should flow very close the same as its mates at the same given back pressure. Some engines require unequal length headers to match unequal length intake runners (Or vice versa). Each individual intake runner, combustion chamber [Including the piston crown] and exhaust primary tube must be looked at, and tuned as a unit. Ideally all cylinders will flow as close as possible to each other but very often it’s just not possible. After best balance has been achieved among all holes, changing all of their diameters or all of their lengths will move your torque and HP curves around depending on need…and you will generally sacrifice one for the other if all else in the engine remains the same (Aside from correcting fuel delivery). Again, all of this is less of an issue with a supercharged engine than a normally aspirated unit where atmospheric pressure is filling the hole.
I was going to mention them.
A lot of builds are with American Racing Headers.
That a good thing or not? lol...
Yeah, I'm currently working with JDM Engineering to determine a way to increase my air intake housing/inlet. The Magnuson uses the stock diameter tubing, so we're going to do a custom one. Once I increase the air there, then I can proceed with the headers/cats.
I was hoping to do all this in fall, but it might be a spring thing instead. We'll see.
Here's the link to the American Racing Headers (with cats) option. Anyone have these installed on their vehicle and your thoughts on it? The nice thing about the Kooks setup is they have the GREEN cat, which they claim will produce no CEL. The ARH setup I'm not sure if it will trigger the CEL and have ot relocate the O2 sensor. I'll call them to find out.
Thoughts on headers, heads, and/or cams for Marilyn?
I'm toying with the idea of Kooks or ARH if I keep my car, but not until next year. If I keep it, CJ intake and LTs and I'll be done with power mods. And really, those are only for sound and looks more than anything. The power is an added bonus.
But yes, I'm thinking about trading my car once again. We have baby number 2 on the way, due in March. I can't see myself wanting to deal with 2 baby seats in the back of this car.
To my eye the Kooks look more balanced overall than the American Racing units. The American also have much longer primaries which should lower peak torque RPM. Not a bad thing. I'm not picking at you Laser, but saying Ford uses ARH headers on the Cobra Jet means very little. OEM's leave plenty of pizza on the table even in their factory race offerings. Again, not trying to start a war.
Congratulations on the upcoming addition to the family
But yes, I'm thinking about trading my car once again. We have baby number 2 on the way, due in March. I can't see myself wanting to deal with 2 baby seats in the back of this car.
Congrats on that Patrick! First I'm hearing of it.
Originally Posted by Horspla
OEM's leave plenty of pizza on the table even in their factory race offerings.
Especially the headers on the GT350R car. They look mighty stout for OEM headers.
I'm toying with the idea of Kooks or ARH if I keep my car, but not until next year. If I keep it, CJ intake and LTs and I'll be done with power mods. And really, those are only for sound and looks more than anything. The power is an added bonus.
But yes, I'm thinking about trading my car once again. We have baby number 2 on the way, due in March. I can't see myself wanting to deal with 2 baby seats in the back of this car.
don't blame ya one bit. My car is a 3 seater at best. I couldn't imagine having two full baby seats in the back. A booster seat behind the passenger side is tight as it is.
Yeah, the shops around here are charging me anywhere from 700-1000 for labor to install Headers and H/X pipe. After it's all said and done, I think I'll be close to 3k too ugh...
I think I want the H too. I think the power/flow advantage I would gain with the X is minimal at the power levels I already am at. I'm fine with my current power levels.
Wow... sounds like everyone is going H. I've had X for so long, I forget what it's like to have an H
As for the ceramic coating and/or heat wrapping, is the ONLY benefit heat dissipation? What will be the issue if I don't do any of that, and just use the Kooks headers as is? Will it just be a potential loss (somewhat) of power? Or am I looking at long term reliability issues, etc?
Another question I have, this whole thread has been Kooks Kooks Kooks. I understand they're a go to brand, but does anyone have any experience with American Racing or JBA? My shop says they also using American Racing, which is somewhat cheaper, but they also believe it's actually better-fitting, and better quality. Any truth to that? I looked on their selection, and they don't have a "Green Cat" like Kooks does. So I'm guessing they will have to either relocated the O2 sensor, or there will be a CEL that the tuner will have to tune out
Yes, pretty much. That is the first time I have heard about the heat creating better scavenging in the exhaust though. I will say that wrapping the Kooks headers are a pain in the ***. I have never done it before so maybe that is why but 3 of the primaries touch in the RH manifold and they have this awesome little bend at the bottom which makes wrapping them tons of fun at that part.
They may not look that beautiful but hopefully they will do the trick.
ARH makes a great product and arguably one of the best headers on the market. They are easier to install than the Kooks headers due to the fact that they are a true long tube design and not mid length headers like the Kooks. It sounds like you are in Jersey, if so ARH is in LI and I'm sure they could get you setup at their shop.
Yes, pretty much. That is the first time I have heard about the heat creating better scavenging in the exhaust though. I will say that wrapping the Kooks headers are a pain in the ***. I have never done it before so maybe that is why but 3 of the primaries touch in the RH manifold and they have this awesome little bend at the bottom which makes wrapping them tons of fun at that part.
They may not look that beautiful but hopefully they will do the trick.
ARH makes a great product and arguably one of the best headers on the market. They are easier to install than the Kooks headers due to the fact that they are a true long tube design and not mid length headers like the Kooks. It sounds like you are in Jersey, if so ARH is in LI and I'm sure they could get you setup at their shop.
That'll definitely work to help isoloate heat from within the engine bay. It's just not the way to go if you have a toy car that you want to keep for shows and such. I would definitely wrap mine if powdercoating wasn't an option.
Yes, pretty much. That is the first time I have heard about the heat creating better scavenging in the exhaust though. I will say that wrapping the Kooks headers are a pain in the ***. I have never done it before so maybe that is why but 3 of the primaries touch in the RH manifold and they have this awesome little bend at the bottom which makes wrapping them tons of fun at that part.
They may not look that beautiful but hopefully they will do the trick.
ARH makes a great product and arguably one of the best headers on the market. They are easier to install than the Kooks headers due to the fact that they are a true long tube design and not mid length headers like the Kooks. It sounds like you are in Jersey, if so ARH is in LI and I'm sure they could get you setup at their shop.
I wish I was in Jersey... I'm in the midwest. You're probably thinking of someone else.
So ARH is decent too eh? Ok. That's good to know. They are significantly cheaper than Kooks. Are you just paying for the name for Kooks?
Originally Posted by JoeMidnight
That'll definitely work to help isoloate heat from within the engine bay. It's just not the way to go if you have a toy car that you want to keep for shows and such. I would definitely wrap mine if powdercoating wasn't an option.
I don't see an issue with it... in car shows, most folks don't know what they're looking at anyways. LOL. Plus, it's tucked a bit under there. The older cars have more space so it's wide open. The newer ones are more tucked tight.
Not sure what the final outcome of this thread is since I didn't have time to read it fully, but I wouldn't do any of this stuff unless you were going to do it yourself. The gains aren't really worth it once you include ridiculous shop labor rates. Good luck with whatever you end up doing though!
Not sure what the final outcome of this thread is since I didn't have time to read it fully, but I wouldn't do any of this stuff unless you were going to do it yourself. The gains aren't really worth it once you include ridiculous shop labor rates. Good luck with whatever you end up doing though!
I would have liked to do the install myself, but I've even heard from people who've done the install themselves, that unless you have a lift (which I don't) and significant access to a plethora of tools, etc. that it is not worth doing yourself. Paying a shop 700 bucks or so is worth it. There's a removal of the K member, starter, motor mounts, etc...that is involved, and I'm not interested in performing those tasks on my own.
Last edited by FromZto5; Sep 24, 2015 at 01:14 PM.
The issue with Kooks is that they didn't fit as well to the block as the ARH's do. That may not be the case any longer though, as I had my ARH's installed well over a year ago and haven't paid attention to that stuff since. I have 745 to the wheels now and I've not had an issue regarding the headers (fit/size/reliability), for what it's worth.
The issue with Kooks is that they didn't fit as well to the block as the ARH's do. That may not be the case any longer though, as I had my ARH's installed well over a year ago and haven't paid attention to that stuff since. I have 745 to the wheels now and I've not had an issue regarding the headers (fit/size/reliability), for what it's worth.
You have a 5.8. Are you sure the fitment issues you encountered with Kooks exists with the 5.0?
You have a 5.8. Are you sure the fitment issues you encountered with Kooks exists with the 5.0?
John
The shop I use modifies 5.8's, 5.4's, 5.0's, 4.6's. They said they'd had people return the kooks because of fitment issues. The ARH (according to them, and I trust them after the years of working with them) solved the issue. So...not sure I answered your question, but there's that for what it's worth.
The shop I use modifies 5.8's, 5.4's, 5.0's, 4.6's. They said they'd had people return the kooks because of fitment issues. The ARH (according to them, and I trust them after the years of working with them) solved the issue. So...not sure I answered your question, but there's that for what it's worth.
Yes it does answer my question. . .and thank you! Very surprised to hear Kooks had, or does have a fitment issue.
ugh...
