FromZto5

That is correct. Not sure if you followed the thread, but I stated that Heads and Cams are not worth the $$$, so they are out. I believe a new Crate motor would be more value. lol.

I will be pursuing the headers/high flow cats route... just need to work pricing and install.

berzerk_1980

Shameless plug for Boss side exhaust here. I run them wide open. I use the GT TracKey for the lopey idle and have GT500 mufflers as well, otherwise stock. I get lots of compliments on the sound.

I know you can't use the TracKey or Track Cal. You need an aftermarket tune because of the blower. Had I heard at one point that Lund offered the ghost cam tune? If so, maybe just the side pipes and ghost cam tune would do it?

FromZto5

Was thinking about side pipes too, but man, I wonder if that would be too loud with the headers and hi flow cats plus my Corsas. Lol.

As for the ghost can tune, I'll pass. I'm very picky about my tunes and already run a custom JDM tune for my specific set of mods. I wouldn't want a tune just for sound/ghost cam. I'll do it right for real if I get a new motor etc.

2014GHIGGT

You are correct. You will lose post pressure however you don't lose power. Boost pressure doesn't always equate to power loss or gain. It's about air volume. Air in and air out. With the long tube headers you lose boost pressure but you gain in total airflow.

HP is air in and air out. You're getting the air out faster with long tine headers. So the engine can swallow and move more air which is why you lose boost pressure. Load at the MAF is still the same or greater. So you're not losing Power.

tom281

Uh yeah said that yesterday lol.

FromZto5

Ok then I have a question for you guys. I called Kooks today and I got educated a bit on headers. They basically have 3 sizes of LT's. 1-5/8, 1-7/8, and 2. He asked me whether I drag it or race it, etc. Obviously I said no, so he recommended 1-5/8 instead of 1-7/8 esp for street driven. I won't lose as much torque down low if I have more pressure on the heads. Is this true? So total hp would be same on any size, but difference is torque and hp location on powerband? Or am I misunderstanding?

tom281

You're correct you won't lose as much torque down low with the smaller diameter headers and likewise you won't gain as much top end horsepower. Most long tubes gain their most hp at the top of the powerband, which most people want for either all out drag racing or dyno numbers. If the dude at kooks recommended the 5/8 size after you told him your mods and goals, that's what I would do then know their stuff.

drmag

I ordered the Kook 1 7/8" ceramic coated LT Headers, H-Pipe, and high flow cats. The H pipe and cats arrived 2 weeks ago, still waiting on the LT headers. Ceramic coating was an extra $400. My shop said I would be close to $3000 for parts and install. They said it would be at least a full day of labor to install. Kooks originally recommended the 1 5/8" headers since I am still NA, but once they heard I wanted to supercharge it they said I could go either way. Larger gives more top end HP, but might loose some low end torque. I don't think a person can actually use all the low end torque due to a lack of traction unless using drag slicks. Hope the headers show up soon, can't wait to hear the new exhaust. I will be glad to post a video after it is installed.

FromZto5

I tend to agree. Aside from the 1-7/8 vs 1-5/8 discrepancy, other facts I found out from Kooks, is that he said that there is virtually NO difference (or very minimal) in performance between their catted H and catted X pipes (green). He said the difference will be purely in sound.

I spoke to my performance installer yesterday as well, and according to him (which I tend to agree) it's simple physics. The H pipe has to make a 90 degree bend, then 90 degree back as it proceeds through the exhaust. True, it's why the sound is different, as I would imagine it's introducing turbulence. The X pipe is obviously less obtrusive to the flow and having what looks like a 45 degree bend to and from. Soooooooo......wouldn't it be common sense to say that the X vs the H DOES make a difference? Maybe Kooks' argument is that the overall effect/impact of the 90 vs 45 is too minimal, especially in that setup. Hmmmmmmm very interesting.

Thanks for the input! Are you planning on having the shop do the install, and not yourself? So 3k for material and install altogether?

Also for the ceramic coated, I didn't see an option on the Kooks site for that. Did you have to call them directly?

Horspla

What Tom said…The tube diameter of the primaries as well as their length are both very important engine tuning aides. Smaller diameter and longer length moves the torque band lower at the cost of high RPM HP. Peak HP will also move to a lower RPM. This has a much greater effect on normally aspirated engines than supercharged. Just shorter primaries alone move the torque band and peak HP higher. I think the Kooks guy gave you really good advice. Considering you probably rarely spend any time above 5k rpm so in this case low RPM torque is more likely important to you. My guess is you get a lot bigger rush going from 0 to 75 than 75 to 145, correct? The first requires more low end torque and the other requires higher RPM HP.

Late last season I stopped in to Joey Saldana’s pit to talk to him between time trials and the heat races. It was evident the track was going to quickly change from a good tacky wet surface to dry-slick before his heat race. As we spoke I watched his crew change the car over from a qualifying set up to a race set up. Some things remain constant over time…same today as when we raced X years ago. On a good tacky track during time trials you gear down to get the R’s up, in Joey’s case, around 8700 to 9000rpm in the peak HP band. The crew was changing the gears a few points higher and changing the headers from a 2” primary to a 1-7/8...you don’t need high RPM HP on a dry-slick track, you need hole shot and drivability at lower RPM so you don’t buzz the tires. Sound familiar to what you need?

The X pipe is probably going to be a better mousetrap than the H. The idea is to use the exhaust impulse from one bank of the engine to help scavenge the open jug on the opposite side. X is going to do a better job there. Same theory as 180 degree headers and it works. Again, this is more important on a normally aspirated engine than supercharged. …and yes, the X will markedly change the exhaust note even over an H!

Go with ceramic coated...

John

FromZto5

Wow, I am learning so much in this thread. I am so glad I posted it. Thank you for everyone and all their input. This really helps me understand more of my car and how it works, but also helps me plan out my next mods more strategically.

Now John, based on your comment above... I hear you're saying that in the grand scheme of things, the X is better than the H, due to flow, correct? My question is, IF I prefer the sound/tone difference of the H over the X, would it be more advisable for me to get the H over the X? My justification (aside from tonal quality) would be the fact that since I don't drag race or road race, would I ever see the hp gain differences while on the street? You know what I mean? If the difference I'll see is moot, why not get what I think sounds better?

JoeMidnight

You will never know what sounds better until you find a shop that is willing to work with you to adapt and fit your car with different setups until you find what you like.


This was my HUGE advantage when I got my exhaust. I spent a trial period of almost the entire summer (9 full days throughout) where I had taken my S197 to Zorro muffler AKA Solo Performance and had them bolt on all kinds of different setups ranging from AB's, Straight through AB, Mid muffler setups from 2.25" to 2.5" for the V6. not to mention having J-pipes that can be adjusted for sound depth Thanks to Patrick, I got really lucky. I had zero intentions of touching the stock exhaust out of fear that I was going to buy something that I was going to dread.

tom281

Exactly! And sound is so subjective. On my 06 I had purchased and installed Borla, Bassani, SLP, and Corsa exhausts. Even had videos posted here but I believe most got lost in the big crash we had several years ago. Ended up with FRPP headers, Pypes h pipe with resonators welded in, and Borla mufflers. I find it interesting that Ford began adding resonators to the five liter cars a few years later.

Horspla

Go for the tone quality you want. For how you drive your car, you have more power than you need now. Not a slam, just a fact.

For what it's worth, your stock exhaust has the H set up in now...

This is the sound you're looking for:
John

FromZto5

John, I have the Borla X pipe now, and Borla OTA pipes already.

Horspla

Are you insinuating Marilyn sounds as sweet as the video?

drmag

FromZto5,

$3000 is the total cost for parts and install. The shop I am using had to call and special order the ceramic coated headers. I am beginning to wonder how long it will take to get them, the headers were ordered 3 weeks ago and I am still waiting for them to show up.

I went with the H-pipe because I like the deeper tone verses the raspy sound of the X-pipe, the decision had nothing to do with power gains. I figure with a supercharger I will have more power than I know what to do with.

GT50GO

I went with the Kooks 1 7/8 LTH and the H-pipe with high flow CATS. I had a smaller pulley put on to comp for the pressure drop. I did all this more for power gain then sound but I must say I love the sound it's putting out now. I went with the H pipe because I had read that there's very little performance difference and the H pipe sound is more of a traditional V8 sound than the X but since I haven't heard the X I cannot say for sure.
You can't go wrong with Kooks, I saw you were asking about coating, I've seen a shop called Marylandspeed offering free coatings with header purchases so you might want to look them / contact them on that.
There was no way I was going to install the headers myself, I had read there a big pain. If I remember correctly it's about a 8 hour job and my guy said yes it's a pain LOL.

ford20

I have to agree with Nathan, with the Boss side pipes, the car sounded good but throw in the Kooks side pipes and holy **** they sounded excellent! I'm excited to hear what the car sounds like once I get the engine back in the car.

30 hours?! It sounds like a lot to me but then again I have taken my time with putting my engine back together so I can't quite say on a continous install but 3 days seems a bit excessive. I may be wrong here especially since they would probably drop the engine out of the bottom and put it on an engine stand which makes the work easy as pie. Ie. No leaning over a fender all day and easy access to anything and everything.

Where do expect to find a 427 SOHC motor

Anyway, off the shelf coyote cams don't lope hence why we have ghost cam tunes. I have only heard 2 coyotes loping and one of them is running cams with a lift so large they had to clearance the Boss heads in order to make them fit. Unbeknownst to the owner as MMR once again screwed someone over saying they would fit without issues. Anyway, the coyotes are far different than the 3V's where you have these sound only cams. The supercharger grind cams are all meant for peak performance and while the heads and cams would allow the engine to breath more efficiently and reduce boost and stress on the engine, I would still avoid them for your needs. You don't need them since you aren't going for all out performance ie. Trying to get that 8 second slip out of a blower car.

From what I have seen and heard the 1 5/8ths will make a little bit more torque than the 1 7/8ths will. Most people just assume bigger is better when it comes to motors but you need the size that will fit the engine best and it seems the 1 5/8ths is the ticket for the majority of coyote owners. Myself, I went with the 1 7/8ths as I have a larger CI motor than 99.9% of coyote owners so I took a gamble.

As far as X pipe vs H pipe, they both do the same thing but only do it in different ways. The X-Pipe with its relatively free flowing exhaust will make its power at the upper RPM range as the exhaust pulses as moving faster and can take advantage of the free flowing x cross over while the H pipe will make more power down low than the x pipe. The x pipe tends to make more peak power because of this but we are talking maybe 2-5 Hp between the two. I strongly prefer how the H pipe sounds in comparison to the x pipe though.

Keep the factory hardware and gaskets as they work best but I have to admit, getting to some of them on Kooks .... Well they are sons of *****es those little bastards. I can't imagine doing it under the car turning a fence an 1/8 of a turn at a time haha.

You are going to have to outsource the ceramic coating. I don't have the time to outsource it so I will be wrapping my headers.

FromZto5

Most definitely

Yeah, the shops around here are charging me anywhere from 700-1000 for labor to install Headers and H/X pipe. After it's all said and done, I think I'll be close to 3k too ugh...

I think I want the H too. I think the power/flow advantage I would gain with the X is minimal at the power levels I already am at. I'm fine with my current power levels.

Wow... sounds like everyone is going H. I've had X for so long, I forget what it's like to have an H

As for the ceramic coating and/or heat wrapping, is the ONLY benefit heat dissipation? What will be the issue if I don't do any of that, and just use the Kooks headers as is? Will it just be a potential loss (somewhat) of power? Or am I looking at long term reliability issues, etc?

Another question I have, this whole thread has been Kooks Kooks Kooks. I understand they're a go to brand, but does anyone have any experience with American Racing or JBA? My shop says they also using American Racing, which is somewhat cheaper, but they also believe it's actually better-fitting, and better quality. Any truth to that? I looked on their selection, and they don't have a "Green Cat" like Kooks does. So I'm guessing they will have to either relocated the O2 sensor, or there will be a CEL that the tuner will have to tune out