Notices
2010-2014 Mustang News on the Previous Generation Mustang

Thoughts on headers, heads, and/or cams for Marilyn?

Old 9/15/15, 01:09 PM
  #1  
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
 
FromZto5's Avatar
 
Join Date: September 24, 2011
Posts: 10,107
Received 168 Likes on 143 Posts
Thoughts on headers, heads, and/or cams for Marilyn?

The title says it all... so don't cringe too much when you read that. I know most of you want me to leave her as she is right now, but... are our mods ever done?

Background: I posted another thread in the general section about possibly getting another vehicle to complement Marilyn. That's a separate topic. This topic is for the next set of mods to her, since I'll be keeping her a long while (I have gotten several offers to buy her off of me already, but I just can't bring myself to do it... )

That being said, I did a bit of research as to what she could use next. I came up with this list:

a) Kooks Long tube headers
b) Kooks hi flow/race cat xpipe
c) Heads
d) Cams

I'm leaning AGAINST the last 2, because it's far too much $$$ for what you gain out of it. For that price of parts plus labor (I won't be doing that myself), I could almost get an Aluminator crate motor, so why bother.

So, I'm thinking just simply get headers and hi-flow cats, then get a revised tune.

Those of you who have this combo to go with a full exhaust plus blower, what are your thoughts on it? I'm really not after more hp, per se, but just the sound and getting her to breathe better. I even heard that going with headers will even help get the heat away from the engine due to the stock restrictive headers? Any truth to that? lol...

Anyways, I'm thinking I can get a Kooks header and h or x pipe for under $2k total. I'm debating doing the installation myself. I hear the bolts for the stock headers can be a royal pain to get to, plus the risk of breaking the bolts. So worst case, I'm probably up to $2500 for everything, including install.

Worth it? yay or nay? Chime in please.
FromZto5 is offline  
Old 9/15/15, 01:20 PM
  #2  
Cobra Member
 
JoeMidnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: April 21, 2014
Location: Canada, Ontario
Posts: 1,100
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
IF cams were available for the V6 motor. I would do that in a heart beat. I love the lopey sound. Nothing.... Nothing sounds more aggressive and old-school than that sound while sitting idle, showing it off.
JoeMidnight is offline  
Old 9/15/15, 01:47 PM
  #3  
Cobra Member
 
JoeMidnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: April 21, 2014
Location: Canada, Ontario
Posts: 1,100
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
IMO options A,B and C are typically for performance gains (which you aren't exactly after) and or for refining exhaust note and sound output which you have repeatedly stated, you are happy with your current setup.


I would only really consider option D. if you can find a reputable shop that you'd trust to work on your motor.
JoeMidnight is offline  
Old 9/15/15, 02:02 PM
  #4  
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
 
FromZto5's Avatar
 
Join Date: September 24, 2011
Posts: 10,107
Received 168 Likes on 143 Posts
Originally Posted by JoeMidnight View Post
IMO options A,B and C are typically for performance gains (which you aren't exactly after) and or for refining exhaust note and sound output which you have repeatedly stated, you are happy with your current setup.


I would only really consider option D. if you can find a reputable shop that you'd trust to work on your motor.
Thanks for the input/insight Joe.

I also agree about the cam work. The sound/idle gain is worthy. But the performance gains are minimal.

However, your comment about doing heads but not cams would not be advisable because head and cam work usually go together. Tearing apart the engine (top part) to gain access to the heads means you might as well do the cams while you're there. That was why I was tempted to not do the heads/cam. It's a lot of labor work... = $$$$ I'd rather save my $$$ and put it towards a new crate motor or forge the internals while I'm at it.

I think headers can probably be done at my local shop. Those are just bolt-ons.
FromZto5 is offline  
Old 9/15/15, 02:31 PM
  #5  
Mach 1 Member
 
Last1's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 25, 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
LT header install is a monster of a job too, no?
Last1 is offline  
Old 9/15/15, 02:49 PM
  #6  
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
 
FromZto5's Avatar
 
Join Date: September 24, 2011
Posts: 10,107
Received 168 Likes on 143 Posts
Originally Posted by Last1 View Post
LT header install is a monster of a job too, no?
I hear it's not THAT bad, but it's not easy too. I don't have a lift, so access to the bolts is the major PITA. I'd rather pay a reputable shop to work on it for 4-8 hours and pay them that way, then risk stripping or snapping a bolt.

I dunno...

Has anyone here done header installs themselves? Would you do it again?
FromZto5 is offline  
Old 9/15/15, 05:38 PM
  #7  
Mustang Fanatic
 
Stage_3's Avatar
 
Join Date: March 9, 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,150
Received 403 Likes on 366 Posts
Depending on the headers and exhaust you install, in your case KOOKS, which is a good brand and highly recommended, you may have a drop in boost pressure. Not saying it will happen, but it could.
You may be able to use a smaller pulley to get that loss of boost/back pressure. I may be wrong here, but this is from what I have read on the "interwebs" over the years on different forums.
Good luck Burton!
Stage_3 is offline  
Old 9/15/15, 06:16 PM
  #8  
 
Blue Notch's Avatar
 
Join Date: December 5, 2006
Location: Trapped in Minnesota
Posts: 21,949
Likes: 0
Received 68 Likes on 64 Posts
Go with the headers and get the Kooks side exhaust. I've thought about doing that with mine someday. The Boss side exhaust is amazing as is. Would love to hear it with LTs.
Blue Notch is offline  
Old 9/15/15, 08:26 PM
  #9  
I kissed a pickle
And I liked it
TMS Staff
 
tom281's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 8, 2005
Location: Medina county, OH
Posts: 12,334
Likes: 0
Received 24 Likes on 17 Posts
Thoughts on headers, heads, and/or cams for Marilyn?

My experience from building my 06 (cover car in my avatar) after having a pd blower with both blower cams and full exhaust is, do the exhaust. You won't get a lopey idle from blower cams, and if you have regular non blower cams installed to get the lope you'll lose power. The exhaust you will lose a little boost psi as mentioned but that's because boost is based on restriction and you'll be losing restriction by opening the exhaust. So even with the lost psi you'll still gain power and the blower won't be working as hard. As far as the install I did the headers on my 06 myself on jack stands no outside assistance over the copies of two days (not full days). Just have several ratchets and extensions and swivels handy. Change your motor mounts while you're at it. Again this was on an 06 not 14 but I'm betting the install is still pretty comparable.

Consider a driveshaft too if you don't have one already.
tom281 is offline  
Old 9/15/15, 08:46 PM
  #10  
Cobra Member
 
TheReaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: August 27, 2007
Location: Southern Al
Posts: 1,489
Received 25 Likes on 21 Posts
You should consider option "E", trade her for a 2016 GT350.
TheReaper is offline  
Old 9/15/15, 09:09 PM
  #11  
Cobra Member
 
JoeMidnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: April 21, 2014
Location: Canada, Ontario
Posts: 1,100
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by FromZto5 View Post
Thanks for the input/insight Joe.

I also agree about the cam work. The sound/idle gain is worthy. But the performance gains are minimal.

However, your comment about doing heads but not cams would not be advisable because head and cam work usually go together. Tearing apart the engine (top part) to gain access to the heads means you might as well do the cams while you're there. That was why I was tempted to not do the heads/cam. It's a lot of labor work... = $$$$ I'd rather save my $$$ and put it towards a new crate motor or forge the internals while I'm at it.

I think headers can probably be done at my local shop. Those are just bolt-ons.
Think you mixed up my previous post. I was for getting cams done. I know what you're saying. if you're going to have the motor cracked open, do the heads at the same time which translates to just consider the Aluminator which is really expensive and roughly the same as getting the heads / Cams.

You've mentioned that you're on a budget ($2,500 ish)

and from your listed choices A,B,C and D.

Given that you aren't going after performance gains. Cams IMHO are the perfect mod and it will come in around your budget.

If you decide to go with LT headers. Just remember, if you want to reduce heat, consider getting them either wrapped or powder coated (it'll look better)

Last edited by JoeMidnight; 9/15/15 at 09:10 PM.
JoeMidnight is offline  
Old 9/15/15, 09:17 PM
  #12  
Cobra Member
 
xtc.inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: December 22, 2010
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
What can you get for the price of an aluminator crate motor?
xtc.inc is offline  
Old 9/16/15, 07:26 AM
  #13  
Bullitt Member
 
silverstate777's Avatar
 
Join Date: March 27, 2012
Location: Nevada
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Burton, maybe add electric operated exhaust cutouts to compliment your current system? I haven’t personally done this to my GT, but I like the idea of having an adjustable exhaust note.

http://www.quicktimeperformance.com/QTEC/index.php
silverstate777 is offline  
Old 9/16/15, 08:43 AM
  #14  
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
 
FromZto5's Avatar
 
Join Date: September 24, 2011
Posts: 10,107
Received 168 Likes on 143 Posts
Wow guys! Thank you for the overwhelming responses! Let me try to address your comments. Before I do though, let me add, that one of the local shops here who I asked to give me a quote on LT Headers installation is quoting me $945 bucks. Assuming their labor rate is 90-100/hr, they're saying it's about 8-9 hours worth of work. Is that true?

Originally Posted by Stage_3 View Post
Depending on the headers and exhaust you install, in your case KOOKS, which is a good brand and highly recommended, you may have a drop in boost pressure. Not saying it will happen, but it could.
You may be able to use a smaller pulley to get that loss of boost/back pressure. I may be wrong here, but this is from what I have read on the "interwebs" over the years on different forums.
Good luck Burton!
Hey Tony... yes, Kooks was just the brand I was thinking because it's the name you see often. I wouldn't mind JBA or any other brand. What else do you all recommend, other than Kooks?

Originally Posted by Blue Notch View Post
Go with the headers and get the Kooks side exhaust. I've thought about doing that with mine someday. The Boss side exhaust is amazing as is. Would love to hear it with LTs.
Can I get the side exhaust as a separate piece from Kooks? Does it sound good?

So... if I went that route, the pieces I'd have that makes up my "SOUND", would be:

LT Headers
Catted/hi flow H or X pipe
Side Exit pipes
Borla OTA
Corsa Extremes

I am worried that will be TOO loud. What y'all think?

Originally Posted by tom281 View Post
My experience from building my 06 (cover car in my avatar) after having a pd blower with both blower cams and full exhaust is, do the exhaust. You won't get a lopey idle from blower cams, and if you have regular non blower cams installed to get the lope you'll lose power. The exhaust you will lose a little boost psi as mentioned but that's because boost is based on restriction and you'll be losing restriction by opening the exhaust. So even with the lost psi you'll still gain power and the blower won't be working as hard. As far as the install I did the headers on my 06 myself on jack stands no outside assistance over the copies of two days (not full days). Just have several ratchets and extensions and swivels handy. Change your motor mounts while you're at it. Again this was on an 06 not 14 but I'm betting the install is still pretty comparable.

Consider a driveshaft too if you don't have one already.
Thanks for the advice Tom. That's good to hear that you did the install yourself. How long did it take you? Would an impact gun help? I already have the impact gun, and it really helped when I did my suspension on my own. I am worried that using a power tool for header install work isn't possible due to the limited space/access...therefore handtools and extensions and ratchets are the only way to go. Thoughts?

Yeah, you're right about no lopey idle. But that's ok. I'll make due with a raucous exhaust note

Driveshaft too? I wouldn't be making additional power though, if at all. Maybe in future?

Originally Posted by TheReaper View Post
You should consider option "E", trade her for a 2016 GT350.
Trust me, if I could, I would. Maybe around my 40th or 45th birthday, if wife lets me. LOL.

Originally Posted by JoeMidnight View Post
Think you mixed up my previous post. I was for getting cams done. I know what you're saying. if you're going to have the motor cracked open, do the heads at the same time which translates to just consider the Aluminator which is really expensive and roughly the same as getting the heads / Cams.

You've mentioned that you're on a budget ($2,500 ish)

and from your listed choices A,B,C and D.

Given that you aren't going after performance gains. Cams IMHO are the perfect mod and it will come in around your budget.

If you decide to go with LT headers. Just remember, if you want to reduce heat, consider getting them either wrapped or powder coated (it'll look better)
Can I get the headers powder coated or heat wrapped right off the bat? Meaning can I buy them that way?

Originally Posted by xtc.inc View Post
What can you get for the price of an aluminator crate motor?
Alex what's up buddy... long time. You can get an aluminator for 8k or less (I can probably get one for 7k or less through my channels). Remember, this even has forged pistons and internals right away. So you can probably support 800whp easy. So just think, I buy an engine for 7k, get it installed for another 2k, so for 10k, I have a whole new engine. I'd rather have that than pay 9k for heads and cams work on a stock block

Originally Posted by silverstate777 View Post
Burton, maybe add electric operated exhaust cutouts to compliment your current system? I haven’t personally done this to my GT, but I like the idea of having an adjustable exhaust note.

http://www.quicktimeperformance.com/QTEC/index.php
John, how you been sir? As for the QTP cutouts, I looked into that a ways back, and I determined that I wouldn't need it.... you know why? Because I'd run them WIDE OPEN all the time hehe.
FromZto5 is offline  
Old 9/16/15, 10:26 AM
  #15  
Cobra R Member
 
Joeywhat's Avatar
 
Join Date: February 6, 2014
Location: Motor City
Posts: 1,552
Received 38 Likes on 35 Posts
The actual number of hours spent on the job, versus the book time they are charging do not always add up to the same.
Joeywhat is offline  
Old 9/16/15, 11:19 AM
  #16  
Cobra Member
 
xtc.inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: December 22, 2010
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by FromZto5 View Post
Alex what's up buddy... long time. You can get an aluminator for 8k or less (I can probably get one for 7k or less through my channels). Remember, this even has forged pistons and internals right away. So you can probably support 800whp easy. So just think, I buy an engine for 7k, get it installed for another 2k, so for 10k, I have a whole new engine. I'd rather have that than pay 9k for heads and cams work on a stock block
Hey bro, thats actually crazy! 9k for heads and cams!? I actually had no idea... i mean if thats the reality then it would make more sense to get the crate motor no?
xtc.inc is offline  
Old 9/16/15, 11:37 AM
  #17  
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
 
FromZto5's Avatar
 
Join Date: September 24, 2011
Posts: 10,107
Received 168 Likes on 143 Posts
Originally Posted by xtc.inc View Post
Hey bro, thats actually crazy! 9k for heads and cams!? I actually had no idea... i mean if thats the reality then it would make more sense to get the crate motor no?
The cost of parts is actually not that bad, maybe $3k. But the issue is the labor. They quoted me a possibility of up to 30 hours of labor, for headers, heads, cams. They could be blowing smoke but.... eh.
FromZto5 is offline  
Old 9/16/15, 02:57 PM
  #18  
Mach 1 Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2012
Location: Belle Plaine, MN
Posts: 610
Received 21 Likes on 19 Posts
Originally Posted by FromZto5 View Post
The title says it all... so don't cringe too much when you read that. I know most of you want me to leave her as she is right now, but... are our mods ever done?

Background: I posted another thread in the general section about possibly getting another vehicle to complement Marilyn. That's a separate topic. This topic is for the next set of mods to her, since I'll be keeping her a long while (I have gotten several offers to buy her off of me already, but I just can't bring myself to do it... )

That being said, I did a bit of research as to what she could use next. I came up with this list:

a) Kooks Long tube headers
b) Kooks hi flow/race cat xpipe
c) Heads
d) Cams

I'm leaning AGAINST the last 2, because it's far too much $$$ for what you gain out of it. For that price of parts plus labor (I won't be doing that myself), I could almost get an Aluminator crate motor, so why bother.

So, I'm thinking just simply get headers and hi-flow cats, then get a revised tune.

Those of you who have this combo to go with a full exhaust plus blower, what are your thoughts on it? I'm really not after more hp, per se, but just the sound and getting her to breathe better. I even heard that going with headers will even help get the heat away from the engine due to the stock restrictive headers? Any truth to that? lol...

Anyways, I'm thinking I can get a Kooks header and h or x pipe for under $2k total. I'm debating doing the installation myself. I hear the bolts for the stock headers can be a royal pain to get to, plus the risk of breaking the bolts. So worst case, I'm probably up to $2500 for everything, including install.

Worth it? yay or nay? Chime in please.

You speaketh with forked tongue. You say you’re not interested in power gains but all the things you are proposing are added specifically to increase power! If there is no desire for more power, then why spend money on power adders? Are you being truthful with us…with yourself? If all you want is more thump, then add side exhaust, forget the rest and save a fistful of cash. If you want more power, it’s a slippery slope…soon you will be adding tranny mods, frame stiffeners, a built rear end with the list going on stopping at the weakest link!

I seriously doubt headers will reduce under-hood temp at all over the stock headers. Ceramic coating would. While our stock headers may not breathe the best (The Kooks would breathe better so would add more power…but you’re not looking for more power, right?), they’re really not terribly bad. As for power, while it’s important the exhaust on any engine breaths adequately (As I recall the backpressure should be around 1 to 2 psi), having a “tuned” system, like the Kooks headers, on a supercharged engine is not terribly important at all since the exhaust resonance (Coupled with cam timing) becomes fairly unimportant to VE. This is because the engine isn’t drawing its air in anymore, the supercharger is forcing it in, and with the valve overlap, it’s actually helping to push the exhaust gasses out too.

John
Horspla is offline  
Old 9/16/15, 03:06 PM
  #19  
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
 
FromZto5's Avatar
 
Join Date: September 24, 2011
Posts: 10,107
Received 168 Likes on 143 Posts
Originally Posted by Horspla View Post
You speaketh with forked tongue. You say you’re not interested in power gains but all the things you are proposing are added specifically to increase power! If there is no desire for more power, then why spend money on power adders? Are you being truthful with us…with yourself? If all you want is more thump, then add side exhaust, forget the rest and save a fistful of cash. If you want more power, it’s a slippery slope…soon you will be adding tranny mods, frame stiffeners, a built rear end with the list going on stopping at the weakest link!

I seriously doubt headers will reduce under-hood temp at all over the stock headers. Ceramic coating would. While our stock headers may not breathe the best (The Kooks would breathe better so would add more power…but you’re not looking for more power, right?), they’re really not terribly bad. As for power, while it’s important the exhaust on any engine breaths adequately (As I recall the backpressure should be around 1 to 2 psi), having a “tuned” system, like the Kooks headers, on a supercharged engine is not terribly important at all since the exhaust resonance (Coupled with cam timing) becomes fairly unimportant to VE. This is because the engine isn’t drawing its air in anymore, the supercharger is forcing it in, and with the valve overlap, it’s actually helping to push the exhaust gasses out too.

John
Lol John... you caughteth me in my owneth verbiageth... LOL

Well, I say I don't "need" more power, but if the added power comes as a benefit to the better sound? Why, by all means, I'll TAKETH!

But yeah, I actually might consider the Kooks catted H pipe. I haven't had an H pipe since stock days. And the neat part about the Kooks setup? I can SWITCH. I can buy just their H or just their X sections, then mix it up with side pipes or not. Very cool indeed.
FromZto5 is offline  
Old 9/16/15, 03:28 PM
  #20  
Cobra R Member
 
Joeywhat's Avatar
 
Join Date: February 6, 2014
Location: Motor City
Posts: 1,552
Received 38 Likes on 35 Posts
If you're looking for big block OHV V8 exhaust sounds...drop in a big block OHV V8. I don't think you'll get the sound with your OHC engine, no matter how hard you try. And I bet even getting close would mean a drop in performance as the cams are being tuned for sound vs performance.

Embrace what you have, and spend your money on something different. I'd just do a full exhaust - having it built/tuned exactly to your liking. Heads and cam are a lot of money for very little net gain on your end.
Joeywhat is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Thoughts on headers, heads, and/or cams for Marilyn?


Featured Sponsors

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.