stability control and traction control
10/24/12, 07:01 PM
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stability control and traction control
hello, i think i've got a good handle from the OM (owner's manual) on stability control and traction control. i also see that in some cases steering feel is locked into "sport" feel. then there's a part that say "button pressed twice; brakes applied" is "sport mode" (if equipped). how do i know if my gt premium has it? or do all GT's have this mode. does the sport mode affect throttle response - no mention so i'd guess no.
finally, a week or so ago, i was coasting in 3rd gear making a right turn in the rain. the front end started to slip and then the back end kicked out, i corrected with the wheel etc etc... i was off throttle coasting, i was going about 30mph and in the dry it wouldn't have been all that big of a deal, i attribute this slipage to sub 50 degree temps and rain. so would stability control (esc) help in this type of situation? does it only kick in at certain speeds or did it in fact kick in but i just didn't notice it. hard to tell and i've never driven a car with stability control and i haven't been out at a wet parking lot. it'll be fun this winter i'm sure
finally, a week or so ago, i was coasting in 3rd gear making a right turn in the rain. the front end started to slip and then the back end kicked out, i corrected with the wheel etc etc... i was off throttle coasting, i was going about 30mph and in the dry it wouldn't have been all that big of a deal, i attribute this slipage to sub 50 degree temps and rain. so would stability control (esc) help in this type of situation? does it only kick in at certain speeds or did it in fact kick in but i just didn't notice it. hard to tell and i've never driven a car with stability control and i haven't been out at a wet parking lot. it'll be fun this winter i'm sure
10/24/12, 07:02 PM
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oh, well on one point above, i do see that there's an indicator on the dash lights that tells you if you're in sport mode. so i'll check for that tomorrow.
10/24/12, 07:50 PM
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The light on the dash only shows the word "OFF", but doesn't specifically say what mode you're in.
At least in my Track Pack GT, I have 4 options of TC/ESC modes:
1. TC and ESC on - default when you start the car; no light on the dash.
2. TC off (and ESC on) -- this is achieved by tapping the button on the center console 1 time; icon on dash says "OFF"
3. Advance Trac Sport Mode -- I believe this leaves both TC and ESC on, but just allows greater traction loss / slip angles before stepping in, and is achieved by double-tapping the button on the console with your foot on the brake [don't necessarily have to be stopped, though]; icon on dash says "OFF"
4. Advance Trac off - this totally disables both TC and ESC, and is achieved by being at a full stop with foot on the brake, and holding the button on the console for approx. 6 seconds until the message appears on the dash; icon on dash says "OFF"
Essentially, TC is only going to cut throttle input when excessive throttle is causing wheelspin. ESC deals more with applying brakes and controlling throttle based on traction loss, slip angle, steering input, speed, etc.
Your steering feel level (Normal, Comfort, Sport) is totally independent of these settings and only affects how much effort is required to turn the wheel (how "heavy" the steering is).
In the situation you described, your front tires lost traction due to the poor conditions and you experienced understeer. If you then applied the brakes, it probably planted the front tires back down, but unloaded the back end causing the rear to slide out. You always want to try to be smooth with your inputs and avoid any drastic weight shifting / steering input -- and always, drive sensibly for the road and weather conditions.
At least in my Track Pack GT, I have 4 options of TC/ESC modes:
1. TC and ESC on - default when you start the car; no light on the dash.
2. TC off (and ESC on) -- this is achieved by tapping the button on the center console 1 time; icon on dash says "OFF"
3. Advance Trac Sport Mode -- I believe this leaves both TC and ESC on, but just allows greater traction loss / slip angles before stepping in, and is achieved by double-tapping the button on the console with your foot on the brake [don't necessarily have to be stopped, though]; icon on dash says "OFF"
4. Advance Trac off - this totally disables both TC and ESC, and is achieved by being at a full stop with foot on the brake, and holding the button on the console for approx. 6 seconds until the message appears on the dash; icon on dash says "OFF"
Essentially, TC is only going to cut throttle input when excessive throttle is causing wheelspin. ESC deals more with applying brakes and controlling throttle based on traction loss, slip angle, steering input, speed, etc.
Your steering feel level (Normal, Comfort, Sport) is totally independent of these settings and only affects how much effort is required to turn the wheel (how "heavy" the steering is).
In the situation you described, your front tires lost traction due to the poor conditions and you experienced understeer. If you then applied the brakes, it probably planted the front tires back down, but unloaded the back end causing the rear to slide out. You always want to try to be smooth with your inputs and avoid any drastic weight shifting / steering input -- and always, drive sensibly for the road and weather conditions.
10/24/12, 09:41 PM
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The light on the dash only shows the word "OFF", but doesn't specifically say what mode you're in.
At least in my Track Pack GT, I have 4 options of TC/ESC modes:
1. TC and ESC on - default when you start the car; no light on the dash.
2. TC off (and ESC on) -- this is achieved by tapping the button on the center console 1 time; icon on dash says "OFF"
3. Advance Trac Sport Mode -- I believe this leaves both TC and ESC on, but just allows greater traction loss / slip angles before stepping in, and is achieved by double-tapping the button on the console with your foot on the brake [don't necessarily have to be stopped, though]; icon on dash says "OFF"
4. Advance Trac off - this totally disables both TC and ESC, and is achieved by being at a full stop with foot on the brake, and holding the button on the console for approx. 6 seconds until the message appears on the dash; icon on dash says "OFF"
At least in my Track Pack GT, I have 4 options of TC/ESC modes:
1. TC and ESC on - default when you start the car; no light on the dash.
2. TC off (and ESC on) -- this is achieved by tapping the button on the center console 1 time; icon on dash says "OFF"
3. Advance Trac Sport Mode -- I believe this leaves both TC and ESC on, but just allows greater traction loss / slip angles before stepping in, and is achieved by double-tapping the button on the console with your foot on the brake [don't necessarily have to be stopped, though]; icon on dash says "OFF"
4. Advance Trac off - this totally disables both TC and ESC, and is achieved by being at a full stop with foot on the brake, and holding the button on the console for approx. 6 seconds until the message appears on the dash; icon on dash says "OFF"
Advancetrac has THREE systems, not just two.
1. Traction Control, Electronic Stability Control, and Roll Stability Control are all enabled by default.
2. Traction Controll Off (One button press) does just that, it turns the TCS off, but ESC and RCS are both still enabled. However, ESC is turned down and more forgiving of loss of traction.
3. Sport Mode (Two button presses) turns off TCS and ECS, but RSC is still enabled.
4. Advancetrac Disabled (Hold down brake and button until disabled message is displayed) is the only way to disable RSC. RSC does some really annoying stuff, and if you're doing some aggressive cornering it can really interfere with you.
Essentially, TC is only going to cut throttle input when excessive throttle is causing wheelspin. ESC deals more with applying brakes and controlling throttle based on traction loss, slip angle, steering input, speed, etc.
Roll Stability Control is the biggie though. 99% of the time for normal street driving this should be left enabled, because normally the only time it activates is when you're about to lose control. When it does it effectively shuts your engine off and does some really aggressive braking to try to bring you under control.
That other 1% of the time, it can really cause you problems, as it will usually be sometime you're doing something deliberate like pulling out in front of a semi while shifting through a corner. Any brief sudden change in the amount of body roll will fool the system into thinking you're crashing, and it's going to shut off your throttle and jam on the brakes right in front of that semi.
10/24/12, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Moustang
Any brief sudden change in the amount of body roll will fool the system into thinking you're crashing, and it's going to shut off your throttle and jam on the brakes right in front of that semi.
10/25/12, 06:43 AM
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Ah, I didn't realize that RSC was a separate system from ESC. Do you have a source that confirms the state of RSC in the various modes? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious.
One thing I will disagree with, however, is number 3:
The owner's manual clearly states that in Sport Mode, TCS and ECS are still enabled, but they are more lenient and allow more slip before they step in.
One thing I will disagree with, however, is number 3:
The owner's manual clearly states that in Sport Mode, TCS and ECS are still enabled, but they are more lenient and allow more slip before they step in.
10/25/12, 09:19 AM
#7
Mustang does not have RSC. Only traction and stability control. This comes directly from the product sheets on the media site. On vehicles like F150, they list RSC as a separate feature, like Curve Control.
10/25/12, 04:41 PM
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what specifically happened to me that one day was, i lifted off the throttle while in 3rd gear, coasted towards the right turn about 30, then started my turn and stayed off the throttle and brakes. about mid way through the turn, that's when it hit understeer (constant steering angle so no change there), then as understeer was happening, the front grabbed and back kicked out. it's then that i did a sudden an naturally left turn on the steering wheel to correct for the back end slide. either the front tires found a higher-traction piece of pavement or the car had slowed enough on it's own via the turn, and that's what i think caused the oversteer. although i am new to the idea of "rotating" as in when someone would say "the car rotates well when you turn" i believe that's more due to suspension geometry. it made me wonder though if i hadn't done the sudden "steer into the slide" if esc would have somehow corrected.
i do in fact have "sport mode" - hold brakes, button press twice.
front what others have said here so far and from reading over the years as stability control has become more popular, it does bring up a question. with stability and traction control, if an "old school" driver makes corrective action at a time when esc/tc are supposed to do their thing, does that cause more problems than the driver taking no corrective actions at all?
i remember in my old wrx, i used to brake on snow/rain just at the threshold of when abs would kick in, not on purpose but because that's the way i learned to drive -on cars without such advancements. although in down right snowy conditions i would get lazy and mash the brake pedal. actually a few times (testing early on) i would go down a commercial road 55 or 60mph and slam on the brakes always amazed how cool it was that the car would not spin out of control and the abs would bring it to an eventual strait line stop.
i do in fact have "sport mode" - hold brakes, button press twice.
front what others have said here so far and from reading over the years as stability control has become more popular, it does bring up a question. with stability and traction control, if an "old school" driver makes corrective action at a time when esc/tc are supposed to do their thing, does that cause more problems than the driver taking no corrective actions at all?
i remember in my old wrx, i used to brake on snow/rain just at the threshold of when abs would kick in, not on purpose but because that's the way i learned to drive -on cars without such advancements. although in down right snowy conditions i would get lazy and mash the brake pedal. actually a few times (testing early on) i would go down a commercial road 55 or 60mph and slam on the brakes always amazed how cool it was that the car would not spin out of control and the abs would bring it to an eventual strait line stop.
10/25/12, 05:11 PM
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When in AdvanceTrac Sport mode or with AdvanceTrac completely off, steering feel is locked in Sport mode.
Of course, if you have it set to Sport feel, you won't notice this at all.
10/26/12, 07:45 AM
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hello, i think i've got a good handle from the OM (owner's manual) on stability control and traction control. i also see that in some cases steering feel is locked into "sport" feel. then there's a part that say "button pressed twice; brakes applied" is "sport mode" (if equipped). how do i know if my gt premium has it? or do all GT's have this mode. does the sport mode affect throttle response - no mention so i'd guess no.
finally, a week or so ago, i was coasting in 3rd gear making a right turn in the rain. the front end started to slip and then the back end kicked out, i corrected with the wheel etc etc... i was off throttle coasting, i was going about 30mph and in the dry it wouldn't have been all that big of a deal, i attribute this slipage to sub 50 degree temps and rain. so would stability control (esc) help in this type of situation? does it only kick in at certain speeds or did it in fact kick in but i just didn't notice it. hard to tell and i've never driven a car with stability control and i haven't been out at a wet parking lot. it'll be fun this winter i'm sure
finally, a week or so ago, i was coasting in 3rd gear making a right turn in the rain. the front end started to slip and then the back end kicked out, i corrected with the wheel etc etc... i was off throttle coasting, i was going about 30mph and in the dry it wouldn't have been all that big of a deal, i attribute this slipage to sub 50 degree temps and rain. so would stability control (esc) help in this type of situation? does it only kick in at certain speeds or did it in fact kick in but i just didn't notice it. hard to tell and i've never driven a car with stability control and i haven't been out at a wet parking lot. it'll be fun this winter i'm sure
Deysha
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