Should Mercury bring back the Cougar?
11/14/07 | 03:53 PM
#122
Shelby GT350 Member
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The 1967 Cougar Trans Am team was run by Bud Moore, not Dan Gurney's AAR.
After Dan Gurney left Ford, his AAR team raced Plymouth Cudas in the 1969, 1970 Trans-Am series. The street AAR Cuda was based on the AAR race Cudas.
11/14/07 | 10:28 PM
#123
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From: Massachusetts
Is it true that there is gonna be a new Trans Am style circuit when the Camaro and Challenger go into production? I've read articals in magazines about it but nothing concrete. If it is true one more reason to make the Cougar!
11/14/07 | 11:09 PM
#124
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
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From: Carnegie, PA
Honestly Rocky, I don't get why you jump all over what I say. I have never bashed the S197 for being boring, I said the rest of Ford's lineup is. all I am saying is that they are very common now, I will fully admit that they had the same mistake with the pervious generation looking almost identical every year too. If your in the market for a new Mustang why spend $30,000 for an 08' GT is you can buy a low mileage 05' or 06'? Even if the outer appearence is the same they should make some tweaks to give the current GT 20-30 more HP to keep people interested in a brand new Mustang like GM did with the 08' Corvette. On a personal opinion I liked the 99-04 special additions better than the new bullit, Shelby GT... I know that the s197 platform is superior to the sn95 in every way. I will admit that my 97' GT is a slow boring car with decent looks but not a very fun car to drive compaired to the 03' or the 05' for that matter. My major gripe with the GT is I feel its underpowered (F-bodies have been making 320 since 99') I think a Cougar would give Ford fans an alternative to the Mustang. Perhaps thats why I have such an interest in the original cougars too, I like the fact that its not a car that everyone has. Ford listens to their customers? what about SVT? I want my lightning! What about the fan support for bringing European Ford's Falcon stateside or the Euro Focus? Ford should be credited with starting a performance divison of car companys but now SVT doesnt exsist while Chysler and GM have performance versions of basically everything they make. The Trailblazer SS has a vette motor in it! Ford should turn around and use the solid 3V 4.6 from the Mustang and start putting it in other vehicals! And Yes Ford has the most boring car lineup of all the american cars. I think your bias for Ford is so strong you refuse to see what the others offer. You bash the Charger but what is the ford alternative? The slow, boring taurus. As far as Muscle cars go back in the day many of the Muscle cars did offer 4-door varients. The new Charger fits the formula of a muscle car very well it's a powerful, full size car with sporty looks. It may be a 4-door but i'd rather drive the family to church in it compaired to the Taurus. I think the biggest mistake Chysler did was name this awesome RWD sedan the Charger, which can hold it's own against your 05' despite being a large 4-door sedan. It's a beautiful car but all the old Muscle car fans jump all over the name.With the Challenger on the way they have a car to compete with the Mustang and have an SRT version of every other vehical including Trucks (with a Viper V10), SUVs and even little pocket rockets for the youth market. As far as excitiment goes besides the Mustang, Ford has nothing else no Lighning, SVT focus, fusion SHO Taurus.....
Until Ford recovers from it's financial mess.. it's going to take a bit longer, before SVT returns to full operation status..
In the meantime.. I believe that a few others, have mentioned.. the sport track Adrenalin, and possibly a new SVT lightning, may be in the works..Along with perhaps, an SVT fusion..
As for Chrysler's SRT Charger, Magnum, and the upcoming Challenger..If Cerberus ends up having their way, and sells them off to the Chinese..
You can pretty much kiss Chrysler, along with their SRT vehicles.. goodbye forever..
As for people wanting something new ! Well as I said before, The Mustang is only going on it's 3rd/4th model year..And the re-designed S-197..is just 18 months away..
I do agree however, that Ford should just get rid of it's Mercury division altogether..As pretty much all their vehicles, are really nothing but re-badged Ford's anyhow..
Perhaps then, they could climb out of their financial hole sooner..and concentrate their efforts on producing vehicles, that people really want..
In the meantime.. I think it's best, that I take a break from this thread for awhile, as I happen to agree.. I'm getting just a bit too passionate and biased, when it concerns the current S-197..
11/14/07 | 11:35 PM
#125
Team Mustang Source
Joined: January 29, 2004
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I don't recall All American Racers ever racing Cougars.
The 1967 Cougar Trans Am team was run by Bud Moore, not Dan Gurney's AAR.
After Dan Gurney left Ford, his AAR team raced Plymouth Cudas in the 1969, 1970 Trans-Am series. The street AAR Cuda was based on the AAR race Cudas.
The 1967 Cougar Trans Am team was run by Bud Moore, not Dan Gurney's AAR.
After Dan Gurney left Ford, his AAR team raced Plymouth Cudas in the 1969, 1970 Trans-Am series. The street AAR Cuda was based on the AAR race Cudas.
11/14/07 | 11:55 PM
#126
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Joined: October 22, 2007
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Just reviewing recent posts so my .02..
I always thought the Mercury of yesterday was kind of the Pontiac equivalent more than the Oldsmobile equivalent. Kind of higher end sports luxury vehicles.
As for downward opinions on the S197, well everyone's entititled but coming over from the other camp I can honestly say that there wasn't a Mustang made in almost 40 years that even remotely interested me till I saw the 05 body change.
Don't get all crazy on me about this
but I honestly felt a bit too close a lineage to the taurus with previous body designs. That's just me, I'm not making blanket statements just personal opinion just like the one about the S197's.
Now I'm a guy coming over from the Camaro camp, there's unbiased for you! I made up my mind a year before I bought mine and it's easily in the top 5 cars I've owned and I've owned about 20. I generally don't buy the first year of a body style because they're generally overpriced, unavailable and I don't want to be the production model R&D guinea pig.
I'd like to see a Cougar but I just don't see it unless there's a real shift in focus for the entire line up. A few years back I thought of Mercury and Grand Marquis and Marauder came to mind. Now it's SUV's which isn't a great segment to be in these days.
IT's great how this topic has spawned so many others. We still manage to bring it back to the original one though....
I always thought the Mercury of yesterday was kind of the Pontiac equivalent more than the Oldsmobile equivalent. Kind of higher end sports luxury vehicles.
As for downward opinions on the S197, well everyone's entititled but coming over from the other camp I can honestly say that there wasn't a Mustang made in almost 40 years that even remotely interested me till I saw the 05 body change.
Don't get all crazy on me about this
but I honestly felt a bit too close a lineage to the taurus with previous body designs. That's just me, I'm not making blanket statements just personal opinion just like the one about the S197's. Now I'm a guy coming over from the Camaro camp, there's unbiased for you! I made up my mind a year before I bought mine and it's easily in the top 5 cars I've owned and I've owned about 20. I generally don't buy the first year of a body style because they're generally overpriced, unavailable and I don't want to be the production model R&D guinea pig.
I'd like to see a Cougar but I just don't see it unless there's a real shift in focus for the entire line up. A few years back I thought of Mercury and Grand Marquis and Marauder came to mind. Now it's SUV's which isn't a great segment to be in these days.
IT's great how this topic has spawned so many others. We still manage to bring it back to the original one though....
11/15/07 | 08:30 AM
#127
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From: Massachusetts
Ok this i my point reguarding the 05' Mustang I really do like the car but I'd want something more exclusive and will be willing to pay for it. I feel i'm not the only one who feels that way either thats why I personally would love a new Cougar. Ever notice at car shows you will see 30 Mustangs to every 1 Cougar? Thats the camp I wanna be in, I want something that isn't as common as the Mustang. Personally I have always liked the Cougar until it became a FWD import wannabe. One of the best and most reliable cars I ever owned was a 97' Cougar. It was basically a rebadged T-Bird with a 4.6 in it. I preferred the Cougar over the Thunderbird as I would now prefer a Cougar over a Mustang because of the car's rarity. Its kinda like when I take my 03' out for a spin with the women and I see 7 or 8 Mustangs on the way to our destination. I know in my area the 05' doesnt stick out as it once did because they are as common as a 4th gen. If the cougar is a small limited volume it would attract me more than a Mustang. I kinda feel like people are trying to force me to buy an S197 lol
11/15/07 | 08:39 AM
#128
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From: Massachusetts
As far as excusing Ford for having boring cars because of rebuilding is not a valid excuse. GM and Chysler are also in finacial trouble yet they continue to make exciting vehicals. The Ford Adrenalin is being released in 08' It is not an SVT it is nothing more than a $2500 trim package. As far as a lighning goes I've been hearing rumors for years and have no faith in Ford bringing one to production (remember the awesome 04' concept). For most people walking into a Ford dealership is kinda a boring experience after you see the Mustang, and because it's the only cool car they have they try to overprice every GT on the lot. (I went to my local Ford dealership to look at a Mazdaspeed6 and saw that every Mustang GT in stock had a sticker of over $30,000)
11/15/07 | 03:51 PM
#129
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For most people walking into a Ford dealership is kinda a boring experience after you see the Mustang, and because it's the only cool car they have they try to overprice every GT on the lot. (I went to my local Ford dealership to look at a Mazdaspeed6 and saw that every Mustang GT in stock had a sticker of over $30,000)
GM always did try to keep it interesting. Like on the Chevy side if you couldn't swing a Camaro there was always a cavalier or a Monza with similar lines. Pontiac had a Sunbird or a Sunfire available if you couldn't do the Firebird. I just can't see a transition from a Mustang to a Fusion in the same way, not even a hint other than the badge.
I can see the point. If someone came up to me in 1987 and said you have your choice, you can have a Buick GNX or an IROC Z, I'd have taken the Buick precisely for the reason you brought up. It's cool, it was wickedly fast and fairly rare from a division that was more known for making somebody's retirement car.
11/15/07 | 10:06 PM
#130
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
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From: Carnegie, PA
As far as excusing Ford for having boring cars because of rebuilding is not a valid excuse. GM and Chysler are also in finacial trouble yet they continue to make exciting vehicals. The Ford Adrenalin is being released in 08' It is not an SVT it is nothing more than a $2500 trim package. As far as a lighning goes I've been hearing rumors for years and have no faith in Ford bringing one to production (remember the awesome 04' concept). For most people walking into a Ford dealership is kinda a boring experience after you see the Mustang, and because it's the only cool car they have they try to overprice every GT on the lot. (I went to my local Ford dealership to look at a Mazdaspeed6 and saw that every Mustang GT in stock had a sticker of over $30,000)
Being as both GM, and Cerberus/Chrysler..are both corporately owned ! chances are..neither were required, to put up any of their own assests on the line either..However, being that Ford remains the only family owned automaker..they really had no other option available to them, but to borrow money from 2 different banking/financial institutions..
Therefore, I'd consider that.. as a pretty valid excuse..
Just my $.02
11/15/07 | 10:21 PM
#131
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From: Massachusetts
Well they can blame thaeir family owned former Chairmen. Bill Ford ruined Ford Motor Company. Plus I don't understand how a boring product line will save the company?
11/15/07 | 10:32 PM
#133
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
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From: Carnegie, PA
I'm with you there, as Billy Boy was definitely responsible for running Ford into the ground..Let's just hope, that Mullally can bring them back..And perhaps then..something can be done, with the rest of the product line..Along with SVT
11/15/07 | 10:32 PM
#134
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From: Massachusetts
Ok this is what I think Ford can do to make their lineup interesting, first off dump that new Focus its crap. Let the American people decide if we want the Euro Focus or not. This one still bothers me, throughout the rest of the world the Euro Focus is known as a world beater. Many compair it to the VW GTI and the Honda Civic (two popular cars with a good rep). The compact segment is so important these days! Next to spice up the Fusion offer an SVT with all the components of its sister car the Mazdaspeed 6 (6speed, AWD, Turbo 4) For the Mustang i'd offer a mid level model with at least 400HP to keep up with new competition. Create a RWD full size sedan (the Interceptor concept) and bring that thing to production ASAP! With Chysler and now GM making RWD full size sedans Ford needs to get into the market befor its too late. The F-150 is popular just take the GT500 motor and slap it in for a Lighning (Ford has a powerplant for it just do it already) Ford should also consider a hopped up explorer and of course a new Mercury Cougar
! Even if people don't buy these high performance versions they will be interested in coming into the dealership and maybe trade up in the future.
! Even if people don't buy these high performance versions they will be interested in coming into the dealership and maybe trade up in the future.
11/16/07 | 07:17 PM
#135
Shelby GT350 Member
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You guys seem to keep forgetting how long product cycles really are. It takes several years from concept to production.
11/16/07 | 07:25 PM
#136
Team Mustang Source
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Again, I agree. Mually hasn't been around nearly long enough to have had much if anything to so with Many of the improvments we are now seeing come to fruition. Looks like we need to thank Billy Boy for a little of that.
11/16/07 | 09:38 PM
#138
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
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My thanks to both V10, and jsaylor for clearing that up..Guess I had forgotten that Ford's financial problems, started prior to Bill Ford's arrival..
Anyway, my apologies..
Anyway, my apologies..
11/17/07 | 02:24 AM
#139
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Ford was in great shape when he took over, horrible when he left. He was given too much free rein, allowed to make too many stupid moves, buying Land Rover for an over inflated price, Jaguar and Aston that both needed major investment of cash to get back on their feet, cutting corners with the Focus, selling Fords heavy truck division for a song, turning production and development almost entirely to trucks and SUVs, and on and on.
The only purchase made under him that was probably good was Volvo cars.
11/17/07 | 11:21 AM
#140
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From: Massachusetts
I agree, Ford's biggest downfall was that they stopped selling cars! Ford's bread and butter was the truck and SUV craze of the 80s and 90s. This is what continues to bother me about Ford's current plans! Ford needs to make small economical cars a top priority and re-clothing the dated Focus yet again . It is a foolish mistake that is going to put Ford in an even bigger hole. Honestly how many people here would consider the new Focus over say a Civic, Corolla or even the Cobalt? While on the flip size Ford invested so much time and money into the new for 06' Explorer. Don't get me wrong it is a great vehical but its too late. Nobody wants a gas guzzler SUV anymore! The new Focus needed to be a home run and its perhaps the worst in its segment.