Here is how I stayed and played there. They deleted my sig.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=20

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=226

 

I wish one of our TMS geniuses would fix this:

 

did he hurt your feeeeeeeeeeeeeelings?

 

actually there is a pretty civil discussion going on over there right now:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67123

and I guess the feeling is mutual:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62313

hey, they are both great cars, and it's a great time to be a "car guy" . . . can't we all just get along?

I guess there are fanboys in every hobby, I'm also a member of a big archery forum, and believe it or not there are constant arguments over there too "my bow is better than your bow" . . . I find it quite entertaining, but it never ceases to amaze me how personally people often take comparisons of their material possessions

 

Everytime someone shoots their mouth off, things get dicey. Then the future comes along and everything's different. I can't pee as far as I used to either. LOL

 

I've been a member of several mustang forums and several LS/Camaro forums. I would vouch this site's mods over the ones at C5 anyday. I would have probably been banned from there with some of the stuff I get into over here . As far as fanboism for non mods goes amonst members I see the two as a little more equal. That door swings both ways. I definately give the mods here props on being more than fair.

To not know thy competition is to get blown away by the competition.



Though "if" a Z28 gets made the straight line performance would probably be close to what the CTS-V puts down I highly doubt it'll come close to what the CTS-V can do at a track. The CTS-V's chassis is much better tuned. Maybe in a couple years they can get chassis tweaking down, but without alot of current aftermarket mods the Camaro doesn't match the CTS-V's handling prowress which is lauded in just about every test or comparo I've seen. Just like the S-197, the CTS has been out for a few years so they have had ample time to get it right. Though Zeta has actually been in Austrailia for a minute now it's still relatively untapped compared to the CTS or S197.

 

The Zeta has been in production since 2006 in Australia, or at least I thought? If that's the case, Zeta has been out for more than a minute; they've had ample time to get it right, IMO. In fact, every Zeta-platform car I've read about is pretty much universally-praised for its respective handling prowess (the G8 and its Australian brother come to mind). For whatever reason, the Camaro just didn't garner the same kind of praise.

 

If the promised "3 second improvement" shows up for the 2011 GT500 SVT Performance Pkg, does 104.3 become 101.3? The claimed 1/10th improvement makes this 12.7 to 12.6 - driver's race (if it wasn't already).....

 

Those Motortrend guys can't drive. The GT500 is way faster than a 12.7

 

Getting back to the Z-28 several web sites are saying that this test mule is a movie car.

The big problem with GM selling a 45-50K Z-28 is the Corvette.

Before the recession and bailout the plan was the Corvette was supposed to go upmarket and be mid-engined.

Now with no new Corvette until 2012 at least, the Z-28 would step on the Corvettes toes.

 

That's a good point. If you're going to spend $50K for a Chevrolet, why not just get the Corvette? With the state of the economy as it is, there may not be enough customers to justify having two different expensive, fast cars at nearly the same price point.

 

True, it's been out in aussieland since 06 but in a much lower volume, and until it hit our shores only one aftermarket company, Pedders, dealt with it. Now it gets more R&D than it did then but not near as much time is invested as the CTS. I don't completely follow the pan on the Camaro. It puts down the same or better than numbers than any other Zeta Car however the other models are viewed in a different light such as "touring car" and not "Muscle" or "Pony Car". The competition in the other models are more like it being 4 door or 2 door sports sedans weighing in the same wheras pitting it against something such as the lighter Mustang gives it a new perspective. Example: the GTO in the comparison vs the mustang was given leeway on the same things that blare out in the camaro in comparisons. The GTO sways more exhibits more body roll, worse braking etc yet it wasn't seen as a "pony car" so those aspects weren't panned near as much even though it was compared to basically the same car it lost "styling" points more than it did handling. Another would be the G8 comparo with the BMW. The G8 by virtue of heavier weight also has more body roll etc than the Camaro yet it is compared to another car of close to the same weight so it's seen in a different light.


I personally think that is more overblown than it has to be. I for one would be in the market for a Z28. A vette is not in the equation at all even if the price comes close or even eclipses a base vette. I think most with the same eye wouldn't consider a base vette either. A Z06 or ZR1 maybe but if you got money for those you more than likely won't look at a Camaro at all. My biggest competitor in a cross shop would be the CTS-V (which is getting seriously close to winning out) not the Vette. Most vette owners/shoppers are the same way it's 2 seats or none at all, they want the "prestige" of a "sports car" not the "crudeness" of a "muscle car". Enthusiasts are different but as we all know they make up the minority I'd bet less than half of vette owners put their car through 1/3rd as much as your average Camaro/Mustang driver.

 

As a G-8 GT owner, I can tell you the FE-2 suspension (same as camaro) is a great piece. It does have very slightly more body roll do to a slightly smaller anti-roll bar. Either way the g-8's suspension is great and the camaro and g-8 share esentially the same underpinnings. Although steering feel isn't as precise the actual handling of the car. The gxp is one better with the FE-3. GM has done plenty to get it right. The mustang is a smaller car with lighter weight and is therefore more nimble, but the FE-series suspension are great and there are at least 6 aftermarket suspension manufacturers who make pieces for the g-8 and carried it over to the camaro. I never thought I would buy a gm but the g8 is a great daily driver and a great compromise car of luxury amenitites for the 30k price tag. (I paid 24 out the door )

Respectfully,

Roger

 

No doubt, I wasn't knocking it. The guys at Pedders, who do work and make suspension parts for GM, Ford, and Dodge think it's a great base and stiffer chassis (their words not mine). It's when they (autorags) compare it to a lighter nimbler "feeling" car such as the Mustang now all of a sudden it's a "wallowing pig" to those who quote, follow, or use them as a lithmus. It's just not as sorted out (yet) as the CTS's (my point.... then again the CTS does have much more expensive parts, like the shocks, that wouldn't go on the Camaro so touchee on me).

With the rumor of the Camaro and CTS switching to and sharing the "Alpha" platform I'm wondering to myself if much more R&D will go into Zeta, or forgo it, such as GM did back in 93 or 94 when they decided to cancel all R&D for RWD platforms except the vette and trucks (what really killed the Fbody and Bbody and forever locked the Wbody into FWD status). Give it peacmeal updates for minor midcycle refresh rather than a fullblown tweaking. Hence my reluctance to believe that a Z28 can or will match the CTS-V handling wise "if" it gets the greenlight.

 

Although I hope they keep the Zeta I understand the possibility of it going away. As you said Pedders makes a great product. Comparisons between the mustang and g8 are not realistic those between the mustang and camaro are because of the segment. I do think they will throw a tweaked fe-3 suspension at a future z-28 but nothing more. Things like magnetic ride control etc will not go into it and the corvette components would cost too much to bring over and step on some toes as it is an all around sports car. They will concentrate on muscle and brakes and a few body moldings if they bring it out. I would expect the z06 motor with a 6 speed, some larger brembo's and a few pieces. I don't think they will use the caddy tech in this application. Remember ford just did away with the GRW platform and the boss from down under is uncertain. (Falcon)

Respectfully,

Roger

 

That statement is actually true if you have a driver and a passenger in the car and live in Canada. My 2010 GT convertible stickered at $48,328 Canadian(I bought it with 2600 miles on it for $36,000). In December a friend of mine paid $56,000 delivered for his automatic Camaro SS that he had factory ordered. Ouch!!
Yeah I used to check out Camaro5 but don't bother anymore.