Insurance comparo 2010 4.6 - 2011 5.0
3/25/10, 01:52 PM
#42
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Thanks for the clarification Roger. I have only two cards, plus a line of credit with the bank. The line of credit has the highest limit, and is the only one that carries a (small) balance. Both cards have the same limit, about 55% of the line of credit, and are paid in full every month. I would prefer to only have one card, but Costco only takes Amex, so I'm a little stuck there. I have way more credit than I need, but the higher limits come with other perks that generally make it worthwhile.
My score is quite good, would it be worth it to dump the Amex? It's not the card I had the longest.
My score is quite good, would it be worth it to dump the Amex? It's not the card I had the longest.
If its over a 750 not really. You will not get much rate advantage over that. As long as your not carrying the balance your just fine.
Respectfully,
Roger
3/25/10, 01:59 PM
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If you have an 830 it doesn't really matter. For the optimum score cut it down to 3. Again this is a percentage of the total score. The card component accounts for about 45% of your score with all of the factors considered. The highest score is an 850 and not many people have a score as high as yours. If you financed the car through the dealer they may have pulled an auto enhanced score which is inflated. The cards do matter for people with lower scores that don't have the length of credit and other factors involved. Remember you are in the top 3% of all the US as far as scores go. The average is a 663 at the moment. Your other factors are offseting the effects of the number of cards. The largest component is the capacity at 35% and its something that can be changed immediately, unlike problematic payment history.
Respectfully,
Roger
3/25/10, 02:37 PM
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Respectfully,
Roger
3/25/10, 04:00 PM
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The old rule of thumb was based on income, debt ratios, 'ability' to pay, and 'willigness' to pay. I am a perfect payer since my first loan in the 70's and every month its like the Super Bowl - play to win and no out of bounds, no penalty yards. Just win baby! On time, every time! I pay perfect and they can verify it - if they'll take the time to look beyond the score & low income. Now everything seems to be based on score numbers and unfortunately, few lenders look into your history - only at the score. And the score is not that consistent or reflective IMO.
I've been rolling debt on credit cards since the late 80's. It was the easiest and usually cheapest (if you waited for the deals) form of funds for being self employed. I'd borrow the max, bank it, and then use it for payments + cash flow needs. My peak in the 90's was 50k and was probably near capacity. Plus I had a 75k Note against my home and land that didn't show up because it was a Land Sales contract (at competitive rates). I've been disabled since '99 and my only income was SSDI, yet they kept mailing & approving the offers. CC balances were pretty well zero by 2000.
For the 2000's the deals were plentiful with 0% for 12 mos and/or 3.99 fixed (still have 4 of these) until paid off. Built my house in 04 this way (plus some cash reserves) because I didn't want a 30 yr mortgage. Borrowed the max & banked it, and the interest bought close to $2k worth of tools for me to work on finishing part of the house myself. TranUnion score in 06 was 861.
My credit card debt peaked in Dec 07 with 81K out of 127k available (64%) and TU score was down to 654 when I ordered my Bullitt (on a credit card LOL). Figured I'd have to pay cash when the car was delivered. My Credit Union (6%) turned me down, but suprisingly the Dealer got a 6.5% loan x 84 thru Chase ($498 pmts WOW!). Score had crept to 695 TU.
Then the implosion came in early 08 and half of my 3.9 'fixed' reneged unless I closed the accounts. I did so which drastically lowered my capacity but saved my low rates. But the deals dried up.
Fast forward to 5.09 and the same CU that turned down the Bullitt loan 15 mos earlier approved a record low 4.75% 30 yr 140k mortgage on a TU score of 718. They also pay me 3% on a checking account so that's where I keep the excess cash I pulled out. This loan paid off my Land Sales Contract, Bullitt & 2 credit cards (still have a number of 3.9 fixed cards with balances). But still its the most debt I've ever had. Yet by 10.09 my TU score was up to 802 and got a BA 6% X 60 auto loan on my 08 slightly used winter car. (Pentagon Federal denied me for a 3.99.)
This month Experian shows an 811 and I was just approved for a new 0% X 12 with US Bank for a balance transfer - which I used to pay off Capital One*.
So it seems odd that my score has increased from its low when in reality I have more debt than ever, less capacity, and the same low income on SSDI.
My ins is cheap with State Farm.
*Cap One has given me 0% x 12 twice over the last few years. Then it goes to a floating purchase rate of about 5-6% which I rolled to another card. But this time when the 12 mos ended, Cap One reneged on the 5-6 and bumped to 15% this month. I wrote the CEO and said if they want my business now and in future years, they'll honor their agreement at 5-6. He denied. So as I told him, I will never use Cap One for the rest of my life for anything! In the end Mr. hotshot CEO earned ZERO for 24 mos, got 1 month at the 5-6 annualized rate, and now got 1 month at the 15 annualized rate. But now they are paid off, closed and they got the short end of the stick because they are liars. And they pay him the big bucks.
I've been rolling debt on credit cards since the late 80's. It was the easiest and usually cheapest (if you waited for the deals) form of funds for being self employed. I'd borrow the max, bank it, and then use it for payments + cash flow needs. My peak in the 90's was 50k and was probably near capacity. Plus I had a 75k Note against my home and land that didn't show up because it was a Land Sales contract (at competitive rates). I've been disabled since '99 and my only income was SSDI, yet they kept mailing & approving the offers. CC balances were pretty well zero by 2000.
For the 2000's the deals were plentiful with 0% for 12 mos and/or 3.99 fixed (still have 4 of these) until paid off. Built my house in 04 this way (plus some cash reserves) because I didn't want a 30 yr mortgage. Borrowed the max & banked it, and the interest bought close to $2k worth of tools for me to work on finishing part of the house myself. TranUnion score in 06 was 861.
My credit card debt peaked in Dec 07 with 81K out of 127k available (64%) and TU score was down to 654 when I ordered my Bullitt (on a credit card LOL). Figured I'd have to pay cash when the car was delivered. My Credit Union (6%) turned me down, but suprisingly the Dealer got a 6.5% loan x 84 thru Chase ($498 pmts WOW!). Score had crept to 695 TU.
Then the implosion came in early 08 and half of my 3.9 'fixed' reneged unless I closed the accounts. I did so which drastically lowered my capacity but saved my low rates. But the deals dried up.
Fast forward to 5.09 and the same CU that turned down the Bullitt loan 15 mos earlier approved a record low 4.75% 30 yr 140k mortgage on a TU score of 718. They also pay me 3% on a checking account so that's where I keep the excess cash I pulled out. This loan paid off my Land Sales Contract, Bullitt & 2 credit cards (still have a number of 3.9 fixed cards with balances). But still its the most debt I've ever had. Yet by 10.09 my TU score was up to 802 and got a BA 6% X 60 auto loan on my 08 slightly used winter car. (Pentagon Federal denied me for a 3.99.)
This month Experian shows an 811 and I was just approved for a new 0% X 12 with US Bank for a balance transfer - which I used to pay off Capital One*.
So it seems odd that my score has increased from its low when in reality I have more debt than ever, less capacity, and the same low income on SSDI.
My ins is cheap with State Farm.
*Cap One has given me 0% x 12 twice over the last few years. Then it goes to a floating purchase rate of about 5-6% which I rolled to another card. But this time when the 12 mos ended, Cap One reneged on the 5-6 and bumped to 15% this month. I wrote the CEO and said if they want my business now and in future years, they'll honor their agreement at 5-6. He denied. So as I told him, I will never use Cap One for the rest of my life for anything! In the end Mr. hotshot CEO earned ZERO for 24 mos, got 1 month at the 5-6 annualized rate, and now got 1 month at the 15 annualized rate. But now they are paid off, closed and they got the short end of the stick because they are liars. And they pay him the big bucks.
Last edited by cdynaco; 3/25/10 at 04:07 PM.
3/25/10, 04:25 PM
#48
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3/25/10, 07:13 PM
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[COLOR=navy][COLOR=dimgray]
The old rule of thumb was based on income, debt ratios, 'ability' to pay, and 'willigness' to pay. I am a perfect payer since my first loan in the 70's and every month its like the Super Bowl - play to win and no out of bounds, no penalty yards. Just win baby! On time, every time! I pay perfect and they can verify it - if they'll take the time to look beyond the score & low income. Now everything seems to be based on score numbers and unfortunately, few lenders look into your history - only at the score. And the score is not that consistent or reflective IMO.
I've been rolling debt on credit cards since the late 80's. It was the easiest and usually cheapest (if you waited for the deals) form of funds for being self employed. I'd borrow the max, bank it, and then use it for payments + cash flow needs. My peak in the 90's was 50k and was probably near capacity. Plus I had a 75k Note against my home and land that didn't show up because it was a Land Sales contract (at competitive rates). I've been disabled since '99 and my only income was SSDI, yet they kept mailing & approving the offers. CC balances were pretty well zero by 2000.
For the 2000's the deals were plentiful with 0% for 12 mos and/or 3.99 fixed (still have 4 of these) until paid off. Built my house in 04 this way (plus some cash reserves) because I didn't want a 30 yr mortgage. Borrowed the max & banked it, and the interest bought close to $2k worth of tools for me to work on finishing part of the house myself. TranUnion score in 06 was 861.
My credit card debt peaked in Dec 07 with 81K out of 127k available (64%) and TU score was down to 654 when I ordered my Bullitt (on a credit card LOL). Figured I'd have to pay cash when the car was delivered. My Credit Union (6%) turned me down, but suprisingly the Dealer got a 6.5% loan x 84 thru Chase ($498 pmts WOW!). Score had crept to 695 TU.
Then the implosion came in early 08 and half of my 3.9 'fixed' reneged unless I closed the accounts. I did so which drastically lowered my capacity but saved my low rates. But the deals dried up.
Fast forward to 5.09 and the same CU that turned down the Bullitt loan 15 mos earlier approved a record low 4.75% 30 yr 140k mortgage on a TU score of 718. They also pay me 3% on a checking account so that's where I keep the excess cash I pulled out. This loan paid off my Land Sales Contract, Bullitt & 2 credit cards (still have a number of 3.9 fixed cards with balances). But still its the most debt I've ever had. Yet by 10.09 my TU score was up to 802 and got a BA 6% X 60 auto loan on my 08 slightly used winter car. (Pentagon Federal denied me for a 3.99.)
This month Experian shows an 811 and I was just approved for a new 0% X 12 with US Bank for a balance transfer - which I used to pay off Capital One*.
So it seems odd that my score has increased from its low when in reality I have more debt than ever, less capacity, and the same low income on SSDI.
My ins is cheap with State Farm.
*Cap One has given me 0% x 12 twice over the last few years. Then it goes to a floating purchase rate of about 5-6% which I rolled to another card. But this time when the 12 mos ended, Cap One reneged on the 5-6 and bumped to 15% this month. I wrote the CEO and said if they want my business now and in future years, they'll honor their agreement at 5-6. He denied. So as I told him, I will never use Cap One for the rest of my life for anything! In the end Mr. hotshot CEO earned ZERO for 24 mos, got 1 month at the 5-6 annualized rate, and now got 1 month at the 15 annualized rate. But now they are paid off, closed and they got the short end of the stick because they are liars. And they pay him the big bucks.
The old rule of thumb was based on income, debt ratios, 'ability' to pay, and 'willigness' to pay. I am a perfect payer since my first loan in the 70's and every month its like the Super Bowl - play to win and no out of bounds, no penalty yards. Just win baby! On time, every time! I pay perfect and they can verify it - if they'll take the time to look beyond the score & low income. Now everything seems to be based on score numbers and unfortunately, few lenders look into your history - only at the score. And the score is not that consistent or reflective IMO.
I've been rolling debt on credit cards since the late 80's. It was the easiest and usually cheapest (if you waited for the deals) form of funds for being self employed. I'd borrow the max, bank it, and then use it for payments + cash flow needs. My peak in the 90's was 50k and was probably near capacity. Plus I had a 75k Note against my home and land that didn't show up because it was a Land Sales contract (at competitive rates). I've been disabled since '99 and my only income was SSDI, yet they kept mailing & approving the offers. CC balances were pretty well zero by 2000.
For the 2000's the deals were plentiful with 0% for 12 mos and/or 3.99 fixed (still have 4 of these) until paid off. Built my house in 04 this way (plus some cash reserves) because I didn't want a 30 yr mortgage. Borrowed the max & banked it, and the interest bought close to $2k worth of tools for me to work on finishing part of the house myself. TranUnion score in 06 was 861.
My credit card debt peaked in Dec 07 with 81K out of 127k available (64%) and TU score was down to 654 when I ordered my Bullitt (on a credit card LOL). Figured I'd have to pay cash when the car was delivered. My Credit Union (6%) turned me down, but suprisingly the Dealer got a 6.5% loan x 84 thru Chase ($498 pmts WOW!). Score had crept to 695 TU.
Then the implosion came in early 08 and half of my 3.9 'fixed' reneged unless I closed the accounts. I did so which drastically lowered my capacity but saved my low rates. But the deals dried up.
Fast forward to 5.09 and the same CU that turned down the Bullitt loan 15 mos earlier approved a record low 4.75% 30 yr 140k mortgage on a TU score of 718. They also pay me 3% on a checking account so that's where I keep the excess cash I pulled out. This loan paid off my Land Sales Contract, Bullitt & 2 credit cards (still have a number of 3.9 fixed cards with balances). But still its the most debt I've ever had. Yet by 10.09 my TU score was up to 802 and got a BA 6% X 60 auto loan on my 08 slightly used winter car. (Pentagon Federal denied me for a 3.99.)
This month Experian shows an 811 and I was just approved for a new 0% X 12 with US Bank for a balance transfer - which I used to pay off Capital One*.
So it seems odd that my score has increased from its low when in reality I have more debt than ever, less capacity, and the same low income on SSDI.
My ins is cheap with State Farm.
*Cap One has given me 0% x 12 twice over the last few years. Then it goes to a floating purchase rate of about 5-6% which I rolled to another card. But this time when the 12 mos ended, Cap One reneged on the 5-6 and bumped to 15% this month. I wrote the CEO and said if they want my business now and in future years, they'll honor their agreement at 5-6. He denied. So as I told him, I will never use Cap One for the rest of my life for anything! In the end Mr. hotshot CEO earned ZERO for 24 mos, got 1 month at the 5-6 annualized rate, and now got 1 month at the 15 annualized rate. But now they are paid off, closed and they got the short end of the stick because they are liars. And they pay him the big bucks.
The same thing happened to insurance companies here in Florida when the hurricanes hit. Once this happens the portfolio isn't profitable and it becomes a whole lot more expensive to be in business and you see what happens. As I stated before the underwriting and the credit score are two different things. The credit score is a risk indicator which is why cc debt accounts for such a large chunk. However, the calculation doesn't change. Also remember Experion is the most accurate for your region and that they have different numerical scales. 350-850 is the beacon/FICO score which is for Equifax. An 830 equifax score is a lot higher than a Transunion or Experian. There is no way you should have ever had 147k in unsecured debt. The lenders that were letting it happen lost most of their most profitable portfolio and are taking the losses. They are trying to offset those in other products now and it will take a long while before that happens. It is also why a lot of CEO's were fired and charged. The bottom line is I hope everything works out for you, but you are a huge risk to a financial and they probably were looking at the whole picture when denying you for the car loan. Its a depreciating asset, especially if you were buried in it. Houses in your neck of the woods are faring much better than they are here and you obviously had some good equity. I know your on a fixed income but rolling debt will never get you ahead and although you are paying low interest you are paying either annual fees and probably a balance transfer fee. CC companies make money, otherwise they wouldn't be in business. Btw, I would have had to turn down your request as well. Although you have paid in the past it is an underwriters job to assess risk for the future.
Respectfully,
Roger
3/25/10, 08:06 PM
#50
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No disrespect taken. I appreciate your input which is why I shared some details. And I just used TU's score for consistency. The others are within 20 or 30 points. I rotate between all 3 bureau's every 4 mos with the FREE Annual Credit report (NOT freecreditreport.com which isn't free). I have chuckled at the radio's 'financial commentators' for years and have often heard them advise people to file banko when they only had 15 or 20k in credit card debt.
Heck I've probably been a banko candidate (according to them & hungry lawyers) for over 20 years! 
But that fails to consider my 'ability' to pay and my 'willingness' (determination) to pay, and my long term plan.What the score doesn't take into account is the reserve assets I have. They don't even ask. But the CU is the only lender that allowed me to show my other assets and statements. And my new mortgage loan - which was written after the valuation drop - is still only a 65% ltv. I never take a loan out that I can't reasonably pay off over time. And in my mind, once I sign the app, its like shaking the mans hand - I will pay back what I promised.
I have always dreamed of building my own home in the mountains and so even in my 'wild twenties' I paid on time and built up my credit history. I used alternative funding that was freely available. In fact, I think the reason lenders made 0 & 3.9% credit card loans to perfect payers was to help their portfolio of mediocre and risky loans. By blending them together they could repackage and sell the loan portfolio's with an overall rating that was reasonably high. They wanted people like me.
None of my cards have annual fees and although they now charge 3% on the whole balance transfer, up until 08 they would cap that at $75. What's $75 on a 20k loan? LOL Now that the rules changed abruptly I locked in a 4.75% mortgage even though I preferred rolling low interest credit card debt because it saved me thousands in interest already.
So I think the scoring system is extremely lacking - it only shows part of the picture, only half the balance sheet. But sadly it now affects things like insurance rates and employment.
If I use "other people's money" responsibly, and have the liquid assets available to cover payments and loans, why shouldn't I have lenders interested in me, and why shouldn't I have great insurance rates - even though the score says "he's too risky - walk away!" 
The 'real' free credit report - not a paid service (although you pay 7 or 8 bucks for the score):
https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp
Last edited by cdynaco; 3/25/10 at 09:50 PM.
3/26/10, 07:10 AM
#51
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No disrespect taken. I appreciate your input which is why I shared some details. And I just used TU's score for consistency. The others are within 20 or 30 points. I rotate between all 3 bureau's every 4 mos with the FREE Annual Credit report (NOT freecreditreport.com which isn't free). I have chuckled at the radio's 'financial commentators' for years and have often heard them advise people to file banko when they only had 15 or 20k in credit card debt. Heck I've probably been a banko candidate (according to them & hungry lawyers) for over 20 years! But that fails to consider my 'ability' to pay and my 'willingness' (determination) to pay, and my long term plan.
What the score doesn't take into account is the reserve assets I have. They don't even ask. But the CU is the only lender that allowed me to show my other assets and statements. And my new mortgage loan - which was written after the valuation drop - is still only a 65% ltv. I never take a loan out that I can't reasonably pay off over time. And in my mind, once I sign the app, its like shaking the mans hand - I will pay back what I promised.
I have always dreamed of building my own home in the mountains and so even in my 'wild twenties' I paid on time and built up my credit history. I used alternative funding that was freely available. In fact, I think the reason lenders made 0 & 3.9% credit card loans to perfect payers was to help their portfolio of mediocre and risky loans. By blending them together they could repackage and sell the loan portfolio's with an overall rating that was reasonably high. They wanted people like me.
None of my cards have annual fees and although they now charge 3% on the whole balance transfer, up until 08 they would cap that at $75. What's $75 on a 20k loan? LOL Now that the rules changed abruptly I locked in a 4.75% mortgage even though I preferred rolling low interest credit card debt because it saved me thousands in interest already.
So I think the scoring system is extremely lacking - it only shows part of the picture, only half the balance sheet. But sadly it now affects things like insurance rates and employment. If I use "other people's money" responsibly, and have the liquid assets available to cover payments and loans, why shouldn't I have lenders interested in me, and why shouldn't I have great insurance rates - even though the score says "he's too risky - walk away!"
The 'real' free credit report - not a paid service (although you pay 7 or 8 bucks for the score):
https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp
Heck I've probably been a banko candidate (according to them & hungry lawyers) for over 20 years! But that fails to consider my 'ability' to pay and my 'willingness' (determination) to pay, and my long term plan.What the score doesn't take into account is the reserve assets I have. They don't even ask. But the CU is the only lender that allowed me to show my other assets and statements. And my new mortgage loan - which was written after the valuation drop - is still only a 65% ltv. I never take a loan out that I can't reasonably pay off over time. And in my mind, once I sign the app, its like shaking the mans hand - I will pay back what I promised.
I have always dreamed of building my own home in the mountains and so even in my 'wild twenties' I paid on time and built up my credit history. I used alternative funding that was freely available. In fact, I think the reason lenders made 0 & 3.9% credit card loans to perfect payers was to help their portfolio of mediocre and risky loans. By blending them together they could repackage and sell the loan portfolio's with an overall rating that was reasonably high. They wanted people like me.
None of my cards have annual fees and although they now charge 3% on the whole balance transfer, up until 08 they would cap that at $75. What's $75 on a 20k loan? LOL Now that the rules changed abruptly I locked in a 4.75% mortgage even though I preferred rolling low interest credit card debt because it saved me thousands in interest already.
So I think the scoring system is extremely lacking - it only shows part of the picture, only half the balance sheet. But sadly it now affects things like insurance rates and employment.
If I use "other people's money" responsibly, and have the liquid assets available to cover payments and loans, why shouldn't I have lenders interested in me, and why shouldn't I have great insurance rates - even though the score says "he's too risky - walk away!" The 'real' free credit report - not a paid service (although you pay 7 or 8 bucks for the score):
https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp
It definately looks like you are more aware than most. I also utilize my CU for lending and they definately take assets into account along with account relationaship. Someone who had direct deposit, manages their deposit accounts well, and does their business with you is a lot less likely to walk away. CU's are not for profits and gain nothing by giving shoddy deals etc. IMHO they are they way to go unless your dealing with business lending. BTW I want a house in the mountains as well.
Respectfully,
Roger
3/27/10, 11:46 PM
#53
Cobra Member
The bottom line is good people go through tough times sometimes and to penalize them for less than ideal credit (other than when applying for financing) is complete crap. It should in no way be a factor for insurance or employment.
3/28/10, 12:53 AM
#54
What if you own 5 cars, a house, have money in the bank and have always paid every bill that you used to have on time, every time, but now you just don't need to borrow money anymore. I'm not going to borrow money if possible, ever again. So naturally my credit score is going to start sucking really soon.
Why the **** should I have to pay more for insurance?
Being debt free would somehow make me a bad driver?
I'm a dead beat and a loser because I don't need to use someone else's money to buy something.
Why the **** should I have to pay more for insurance?
Being debt free would somehow make me a bad driver?
I'm a dead beat and a loser because I don't need to use someone else's money to buy something.
3/28/10, 07:27 PM
#55
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What if you own 5 cars, a house, have money in the bank and have always paid every bill that you used to have on time, every time, but now you just don't need to borrow money anymore. I'm not going to borrow money if possible, ever again. So naturally my credit score is going to start sucking really soon.
Why the **** should I have to pay more for insurance?
Being debt free would somehow make me a bad driver?
I'm a dead beat and a loser because I don't need to use someone else's money to buy something.
Why the **** should I have to pay more for insurance?
Being debt free would somehow make me a bad driver?
I'm a dead beat and a loser because I don't need to use someone else's money to buy something.
Respectfully,
Roger
3/28/10, 07:56 PM
#56
Or you could put your gas on a card once every three months, pay it off before the interest hits, and not have to worry about it. It's not really that hard. Just don't let it set for 2 years so you have to start from scratch. You don't HAVE to use it. It doesn't negatively effect you if you have already built your credit. Just don't let it go stagnant for two years so the credit score goes away and your fine.
Respectfully,
Roger
Respectfully,
Roger
3/28/10, 08:03 PM
#57
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3/28/10, 08:28 PM
#58
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but I've been happy with them the whole time.
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