Fazm

at 5/gallon id be fine with 412hp and 25mpg still

Zastava_101

Most of people won't.

In 2009 Mustang's sales were already at all time low (I think Ford sold only 66,000 of them). If gas goes up to $4.50 again not many people will be buying 412 hp muscle cars.

MARZ

I agree with you here, although I feel as though the meager 2009 sales can be attributed to a myriad of factors, including -- but definitely not limited to -- high gas prices. In the end, it's what people can afford that ultimately drives their automotive decisions, but several Americans (can't speak for the rest of the world) view their cars as more than just an "appliance" to get from point A to point B. Because of that, I feel there will always be a place for 400+ horsepower musclecars in the American automotive landscape, even if / when gas gets back up to $4.00+ a gallon, assuming our government allows them to live on.

Zastava_101

There will always be people buying muscle cars, but most of people will stick to cheap, boring, economical cars, even in the USA. Which pretty much explains why Camry and Corolla are such a strong sellers.

Mustang will always have his place on the market, but I don't think we'll see 200,000+ sales anytime soon.

MARZ

Ah, who knows? There have been crazier things that have happened throughout history.

Overboost

We'll definitely see a jump compared to last year. Since this car will be at the top of its class, and also in a category to steal some sales from other brands and models, we'll see more sales, especially of the V6 model. That'll strengthen sales up enough to make it worthwhile for the next few years.

MARZ

We won't see 2005-like sales for the Mustang because, unlike then, there's actually some competition now.

ford4v429

if the goverment sets CO2 limits (CO2=MPG) where they want, the V8, maybe even the 6, wont be around forever...theres simply no way. if the 4 cylinders put out 500 hp(sure its possible- look where we are today) the HP war may never end, mostly will depend on how orwellian our laws get...if the 'black box' evolves much further, its just a software update away from auto ticketing for rapid acceleration. Yes this is America, but our govt has no qualms with adjusting our freedoms these days...could never happen right? as unlikely as giving banks a trillion dollars instead of letting them fail and using the FDIC insurance, or buying the largest corporation on earth right...sorry for the semi-off topic rant, but back to the 'how much' question.

EPA/regulations aside, where will HP be in a few more years?

my WISH is they would forget the hp wars right now- 300 hp sounds good, and it gets down the track great for a stock car- but I cant legally hit 300 hp on the street, know what I mean? I grew up with BigBlocks, aint anything better for everyday power...450~500 ftlb at 2500 moves the car in a totally different way than the 320 ftlb at 4500 in the mustang...even if both were around 300 hp, and the heavy iron bigblock was in a slower 2 ton boat that probably woulda been at least 2~3 seconds slower in the quarter...however, on the 'fun to drive' scale, there is nothing more fun than smooth/massive low rpm torque. the new 3.7 ecoboosed V6 has the best torque profile of anything- ever maybe...diesel like bottom end , but still a good redline- I'd have to think the ecoboost v6 might be more fun to drive than the V8 in my mustang...BUT a V6 dont have that all-american 90 degree V8 rumble, so no thanks...My personal preference for 'max power' would be something that makes 450 ft/lb at 2000, even if it had a 4k rev limiter- think about it- how often other than the track- does your tach exceed 4k without breaking a law...thats under 300 ftlb on the 4.6, a 50% boost there would be a 'seat of the pants' feel unmatched by probably any mods but mabe a positive displacement blower...
Anyone thats had bigblock cars, please chime in on how the torque feels today, or their recollections of how they were to drive. Fastest feeling car I was ever in was a buddies 77 transam- he blew it up, and dropped in a 455 olds w/ headers/intake/cam, I bet that beast put out close to 600 ft/lb, it would push you into the seat so hard off idle I was afraid te seat was going to break...fastest feeling car I ever had was Mom's old 69 galaxie with the 360 horse 429 (480 ft/lb @2500), that sucker would rev like a small block, but would nail you to the seat hard too.(still got the motor- its 'someday' going to find a home in the 69 mustang). I also had a 71 LTD with the low compression 400-2v...it was probably 200 horse(?) but with a 4" stroke, it had NO problem moving that barge around stoplight to stoplight...was no 429 by any means, but would accelerate smooth and quiet in a comfortable hurry I had a 81 dodge pickup with a 396 chevy I drove about 10 years- got 17 mpg, had great torque with a towing cam and small primary Qjet...was a perfect truck motor (just dont overrev it- it loved to break rocker arms at just over 5K, until I finally put harlan sharp roller rockers in it).


Anyway, my gut feeling is as folks start test driving engines with off idle torque available like the 3.7 ecoboost, torque may just finally become advertising factor more than peak HP that cant legally be touched...I just really hope the V8 sound dont disappear altogether...perhaps a 120 degree block V6 with 120 crank journals or something like that will materialize that can make some of the harmonic noise of a 90 degree V8, but who knows...I had a 2.8 v6 camaro, and THAT engine family had the most pathetic noise of anything Ive ever heard- followed closely by a fart piped 4 cyl...the wifes 4.0 mustang sounds pretty decent for a 6, probably due to its displacement, but still I got rocks in my head I guess...faster or slower, it needs that V8 rumble- I just get a feeling in 5 years a V8 will be out priced for the average guy to afford- the single biggest thing Ford neds to worry about IMO- keeping a V8 mustang affordable...afraid those days are numbered.

Skotty

I would still be happy with and drive a 25 MPG 412 HP Mustang so long as gas prices stay under about $10 per gallon. This cutoff might go down to closer to $5 per gallon if I changed jobs to something with a long commute. Over that, I'd probably do something else for a daily driver, but I'd still keep the Mustang.

karman

That's my opinion too.
If I change jobs, it will not be a longer commute. (maybe less money)
And I already have a daily driver.
Personally, I have a hard time living without a V8.
Last time I did it was about 20 years ago.

Zastava_101

I have to use a car for work so higher gas prices are becoming a problem.
Sure, my job pays me for miles I drive during the work, but it's still too much.
With my '00 V6 I put less than 50,000 miles in 9 years (which average to ~5,500 miles per year).
With my '08 GT I put more than 10,000 miles in the last year alone, and that's without driving it from early December to late March (I have F-150 for winter driving).

I'm planing to keep this Mustang for a while, but in the next year or so I'm planing to get a new daily driver (probably a Fiesta or maybe a Focus).

Arrow

What I'm hearing is "Ford is just as bad as GM" but I didn't see Ford's survival solution stealing my *** money and bullpoopin' around afterwards. Tell me why I should vilify Ford the same as GM?

Ya'll can fork yer money onto GM's glorious solution and superior recovery solution, but given the choice between the two, I'll shovel praise on Ford instead.

Dixie_Flatline

Most direct answer to your question: We all maximize our utility within the budget curve we set for buying the car.


It's human nature to want the most we can get for what we're buying. Just make sure you know what you want or you'll be unhappy when you get what someone else wanted.

News flash to you guys debating MPG: a V8 performance muscle car probably shouldn't be in your sights if you're at all gas usage concious.... Just sayin'.

cdynaco

Ford's restructuring in 2006 has brought innovation, new engines, and a foundation for growth. And in spite of the unforseen global implosion, is paying dividends today, and moreso as the economy stabilizes and grows in future years.

(MarketWatch) - A strong performance in the long-ailing North American car market helped propel Ford Motor Co. to its first annual profit in four years, and the automaker said Thursday that there's more to come.
The proof of Ford's remarkable turnaround, which coincided with its U.S. competitors freefalling into bankruptcy, is there in the numbers.
In 2008, the company lost nearly $15 billion as industry sales were caught in a historic slide. The next year was even worse for most -- and yet Ford handed in a profit of $2.7 billion.

"While we still face significant business environment challenges ahead, 2009 was a pivotal year for Ford and the strongest proof yet that our 'One Ford' plan is working and that we are forging a path toward profitable growth by working together as one team, leveraging our global scale," CEO Alan Mulally said.

For the fourth quarter, the company reported a profit of $868 million, or 25 cents a share, reversing a loss of $5.98 billion, or $2.51 a share, a year ago. Excluding items, operating profit would have been 43 cents a share.

By comparison, Ford earned nearly $1 billion during the third quarter -- two quarters in a row of profitability is no mean feat considering the state of the economy and the auto industry.
Fourth-quarter revenue came in at $35.4 billion, up from $29 billion a year earlier.

Analysts polled by FactSet Research had expected a profit, on average, of 26 cents a share with total revenue pegged at $31.29 billion.

Even North America, which has been a brutal market in recent years, managed to turn a profit. In fact, it led the way with pre-tax earnings of $707 million.

Kip Penniman, fixed-income analyst for KDP Advisor, said the report was better than he had expected -- particularly with regard to Ford's operating cash flow.
"We continue to be impressed with CEO Mulally's aggressive efforts to restructure Ford, reduce costs, and drive product improvements," he said. "We believe the investment community will turn its attention to Ford's efforts to right-size its balance sheet,
Ford said it expects to be profitable for 2010 on a pretax basis, excluding any distortions from special items. Wall Street is looking for a profit of 44 cents a share.
The upbeat report follows a strong month of December for Ford, which increased U.S. sales by 33% while rivals General Motors Co. and Chrysler sold even fewer cars than they did in the dismal year-earlier period.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/for...fit-2010-01-28

Sport1160

Its a good question.

I had a freind who always claimed 300hp was the magic number for a rwd car, where the fun started, anything less was dull. Having now had my car for a month or so I think he's about right.

For me 300/315/412 doesnt make a lot of difference, I dont track or drag, and I live in an area where the police are very visible even in the most unexpected places, that said, if I could could have curbed my impatience I would have waited the extra few months and gone for 5.0, but patience never was a virtue of mine :-)

Whilst I dont think this applies to a mustang, there are times where you can have to much. I had a caterham 7 superlight R500, the 500 is the power to weight ration, so 500bhp/per ton, that was to much in many respects, fun, but only for short periods. Bit like owning a superbike, take it out, scare yourself, get the buzz, put it away again, and worry about the rebuild costs of a 1.8 ltr 4 cyl normaly aspirated engine that rev'd to 9600 rpm and produced 230hp

For me and the type of driving I do, not even sure if I want the extra gear from the 6 speed.

Now if I were living back in the UK and could afford to put gas in mustang ($8+ a gallon) then for sure I would want the 5.0 and 6 speed, cos there are no police to speak of and in general people drive at much higher speeds than they do in Texas.

Arrow

I'm not sure that makes any sense.

A 300hp Porsche isn't quite the same as 300hp Mustang. Different configuration, weight, suspension, engine, etc.

It's kinda like the same argument that a 4,500lb 425hp HEMI Challenger is gonna own a 3,200lb 300hp Mustang.

crescent_wrench

I got to ride in a BMW M5 with over 500 HP. The acceleration from 60 to 150 MPH was a feeling I will never forget. Never. I get it. For me, you can always have more power.

825LTRGT

I'd describe new cars feel as smooth power. More of a building type of power.

The old big blocks with 400+ hp and 500+ ft/lb torque at 2500 was the mash the gas and smash your eyeballs back in your head feeling.

Perfomance numbers, time slips tell the story. The latest generation are quicker but they feel different.

There is no substiture for cubic inches and big torque numbers torque need cubic inches.

Performance is differnet now..which is not all bad.