How Much Is Enough???
1/15/10, 03:02 PM
#21
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All I can say is sooner or later they need to make people take performance driving classes when they buy a high performance car. The cars are going to exceed peoples driving skills, and in some cases they already do. If not they are all going to start wrapping themselves and others around trees because they want to see what the vehicle can do. I see it every day on the way to and from work.
1/15/10, 03:07 PM
#22
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Many years ago, I longed for an affordable, good handling, comfortable, 300HP+ car.
During the '80s there was the Buick, which I could afford but the handling was not good enough.
During the '90s there was the the Camaro, but I was never comfortable in the car and visibility was not good.
My Mustang is my cup of porridge. It is just right.
I'm not saying I won't buy a new 5.0 Mustang.
I am saying that I don't plan to ever get rid of my current one.
I still think it looks better than the new ones too.
During the '80s there was the Buick, which I could afford but the handling was not good enough.
During the '90s there was the the Camaro, but I was never comfortable in the car and visibility was not good.
My Mustang is my cup of porridge. It is just right.
I'm not saying I won't buy a new 5.0 Mustang.
I am saying that I don't plan to ever get rid of my current one.
I still think it looks better than the new ones too.
1/15/10, 03:23 PM
#23
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25 years ago, I would go to the local Ford dealer to get parts for my old Mach 1 and the salesmen would always approach and say "are you gonna trade that in today?" I always said I wouldn't buy a new car until one was built that could run 13's in the 1/4 mile from the factory. Well, a few years later (in 1989) I settled for a new 1989 Mustang LX 5.0L Sport that only ran mid 14's from the factory.
But, all these years later I still believe that 13's in the 1/4 mile is a solid performance from the factory to build upon. I love my '07 GT's ability to 0-100 mph in under 10 seconds and do the 1/4 mile in the low 12's, but I'm totally okay with my next Mustang starting with 13 second performance. 12's from the factory is awesome, but isn't necessary to keep me buying new Mustangs every few years.
But, all these years later I still believe that 13's in the 1/4 mile is a solid performance from the factory to build upon. I love my '07 GT's ability to 0-100 mph in under 10 seconds and do the 1/4 mile in the low 12's, but I'm totally okay with my next Mustang starting with 13 second performance. 12's from the factory is awesome, but isn't necessary to keep me buying new Mustangs every few years.
Last edited by Five Oh Brian; 1/15/10 at 03:35 PM.
1/15/10, 03:43 PM
#24
Legacy TMS Member
All I can say is sooner or later they need to make people take performance driving classes when they buy a high performance car. The cars are going to exceed peoples driving skills, and in some cases they already do. If not they are all going to start wrapping themselves and others around trees because they want to see what the vehicle can do. I see it every day on the way to and from work.
1/15/10, 05:02 PM
#25
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All I can say is sooner or later they need to make people take performance driving classes when they buy a high performance car. The cars are going to exceed peoples driving skills, and in some [many!] cases they already do. If not they are all going to start wrapping themselves and others around trees because they want to see what the vehicle can do. I see it every day on the way to and from work.
Absolute truth. My answer to an earlier thread:
Originally Posted by LateralG
Regarding the question: "What do you have planned for your 2011?"
I plan to add another performance driving school diploma to my wall. Like the Pirelli ads: Power is nothing without control.
I plan to add another performance driving school diploma to my wall. Like the Pirelli ads: Power is nothing without control.
The 2011+ Mustang GT is going to be a curse on folks who think buying a powerful car automatically annoints them with the skills of Walter Rohl and a gift to people who own tow trucks and body shops.
1/15/10, 05:41 PM
#27
I personally think you're going to find a different answer from every person on this. For me, 412 horsepower would be enough -- but I have other reasons I desire the new 2011 Ford Mustang GT. The 5.0 power plant isn't just historical, but it's also a fantastic new platform.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- we are witnessing the last muscle car war. For a lot of us, including me and the friends I had the joy of running with in Austin, we only heard about the 1970 battle between our Ford Mustang with its Boss and Mach 1, the Chevrolet Camaro and Chevelle, the Pontiac GTO and Trans Am, and the Dodge Charger and Challenger. If you think that this'll last more than a few years, I highly doubt it (but I could be wrong). For me, it's not so much about the power, so much as it is about being part of something unique, and being part of something that has very deep, heart-warming meaning to me.
There will be two road trips for certain in my new 5.0 when I get it -- one coming back from Pennsylvania, which'll be a short one -- but during the actual summer of 2011, I want to go up the West coast, along the northern country (I want to see the Nevada desert and drive down the highway during a warm summer night with a full moon, and to see Las Vegas/Reno), and visit Flat Rock, Michigan to see where my baby was created (I want a picture of me and Gabrielle 3.0 outside the actual plant if they'll let me), and I want to come back down through the East coast and deep South, preferably during the fall. I've heard that the South during the fall, particularly places like Arkansas, upper Alabama/Georgia, Missouri, etc., are gorgeous in autumn.
And along the way, I'll stop and have lunch with as many fellow TMS members as I can!
And along the way, I'll stop and have lunch with as many fellow TMS members as I can!
1/15/10, 05:48 PM
#28
Legacy TMS Member
I didn't even consider insurance on the new GT. Thanks for bringing that up guys. CRAP. May have to get a '10 after all if insurance increases that much more on the '11....
1/15/10, 06:02 PM
#29
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Enough is enough when you say its enough, but you need to believe it to.
When I saw rumors for the 2011, I initally wanted 350 HP, and thought that would be more than enough. I wanted a car that could do the 1/4 in less than 14 sec at 100+ Mph. The only reason that I had not bought a stang was due to the mileage of the 4.6. But now that the 5.0 is coming with more power and mileage, its more than enough for what I want, and will be buying one this fall.
When I saw rumors for the 2011, I initally wanted 350 HP, and thought that would be more than enough. I wanted a car that could do the 1/4 in less than 14 sec at 100+ Mph. The only reason that I had not bought a stang was due to the mileage of the 4.6. But now that the 5.0 is coming with more power and mileage, its more than enough for what I want, and will be buying one this fall.
1/15/10, 06:06 PM
#30
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All I can say is sooner or later they need to make people take performance driving classes when they buy a high performance car. The cars are going to exceed peoples driving skills, and in some cases they already do. If not they are all going to start wrapping themselves and others around trees because they want to see what the vehicle can do. I see it every day on the way to and from work.
1/15/10, 06:08 PM
#31
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its all relative i came from a 220 hp awd fusion so 315 was a huge upgrade. i love my car and the power is plenty. (im gonna go to 93 ocatane in the spring then maybe a tune after for some incremental upgrades) however when i buy the next one obv i will want more power. maybe shelby power...
would i trade it strait up for an identical 2011 in the spring? of course, but i already got the benefit of an extra year owning a mustang because i bought a 2010 which i would not give up for anything.
would i trade it strait up for an identical 2011 in the spring? of course, but i already got the benefit of an extra year owning a mustang because i bought a 2010 which i would not give up for anything.
1/15/10, 07:03 PM
#32
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
The $1 a day for insurance I pay ain't hard to live with.
1/15/10, 07:14 PM
#33
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I've been lucky to have owned a lot of cars that I considered fast, starting with a '74 Z28, then a '70 Olds 4-4-2 W-30, then a '65 Corvette 396, then an '80 Z28, an '84 L69 H.O. Z28, an '87 Mustang GT, a '95 Mustang GT, and finally my current '05 GT. The '05 is the quickest of them all, and the best car overall considering its power, handling, and particularly its reliability. When I got it, I thought, this is it and I'll never need more.
But then I started to going to HPDE track days at road courses, at the world-class race tracks at Lime Rock, Loudon, and Watkins Glen, and found that you can never really have too much horsepower.
Don't get me wrong, I loved driving my car at 9/10's or whatever I drove it at, and the car performed admirably (well, except maybe the brakes were a little weak, even with Hawk HPS pads). I held my own and passed my share of cars, including an Infiniti G35, a couple 3-series BMWs, and a late '90s Z28, and had a ton of fun doing it. But I was also passed by some cars that surprised me, including a Subaru STi, a Lancer EVO, and a spec Miata.
So now I can't wait to get my hands on a 2011 GT with the Brembo brake package, and any available performance/handling options! I'm sure when I get it, I'll again think this is it and I'll never need anything better. But then time will go by and I'll realize that you can never say never.
But then I started to going to HPDE track days at road courses, at the world-class race tracks at Lime Rock, Loudon, and Watkins Glen, and found that you can never really have too much horsepower.
Don't get me wrong, I loved driving my car at 9/10's or whatever I drove it at, and the car performed admirably (well, except maybe the brakes were a little weak, even with Hawk HPS pads). I held my own and passed my share of cars, including an Infiniti G35, a couple 3-series BMWs, and a late '90s Z28, and had a ton of fun doing it. But I was also passed by some cars that surprised me, including a Subaru STi, a Lancer EVO, and a spec Miata.So now I can't wait to get my hands on a 2011 GT with the Brembo brake package, and any available performance/handling options!
I'm sure when I get it, I'll again think this is it and I'll never need anything better. But then time will go by and I'll realize that you can never say never.
1/15/10, 09:13 PM
#34
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All I can say is sooner or later they need to make people take performance driving classes when they buy a high performance car. The cars are going to exceed peoples driving skills, and in some cases they already do. If not they are all going to start wrapping themselves and others around trees because they want to see what the vehicle can do. I see it every day on the way to and from work.
I already have enough of a lead foot. I don't want to make I-95 my own personal speedway but just understand the car's limits and how to correct when I exceed them. Spent 2 hours one night recently moving about 5 miles on I-84 in Ct. when some guy crashed his... Well, couldn't tell what they were driving based on the wreckage. I do know there were accident investigators on the opposite side of the highway which was closed. I can only guess why.
1/15/10, 11:01 PM
#35
Legacy TMS Member
But, all these years later I still believe that 13's in the 1/4 mile is a solid performance from the factory to build upon. I love my '07 GT's ability to 0-100 mph in under 10 seconds and do the 1/4 mile in the low 12's, but I'm totally okay with my next Mustang starting with 13 second performance. 12's from the factory is awesome, but isn't necessary to keep me buying new Mustangs every few years.
and yeah, I considered my 07 GT a fast car, my current car is OMFG Fast for a DD.
1/22/10, 03:14 PM
#37
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Cars are wickedly powerful these days, in comparison to the 80's. I think about 300 HP/275 tq. is enough for daily smiles, but I'm not going to complain about getting more. :-)
My first Mustang was an 1981 model with an 88 HP 2.3L 4 cyl. Even for that motor, there were a lot of aftermarket mods available. I upgraded mine with an Offenhauser intake, larger 2-bbl Holly carb (manual choke, later upgraded with automatic choke), a performance cam, and some aftermarket headers. I bet I had that baby pumped up to 120 HP!!!!!!! If you were around back in those days, or just have driven some really old cars, you can more appreciate the power modern cars are putting out. I also really appreciate modern EFI systems. Carbs back then didn't appreciate weather extremes. I was shocked when I got my first EFI car, started it in the winter, and it just started right up and idled at a consistent level.
My first Mustang was an 1981 model with an 88 HP 2.3L 4 cyl. Even for that motor, there were a lot of aftermarket mods available. I upgraded mine with an Offenhauser intake, larger 2-bbl Holly carb (manual choke, later upgraded with automatic choke), a performance cam, and some aftermarket headers. I bet I had that baby pumped up to 120 HP!!!!!!! If you were around back in those days, or just have driven some really old cars, you can more appreciate the power modern cars are putting out. I also really appreciate modern EFI systems. Carbs back then didn't appreciate weather extremes. I was shocked when I got my first EFI car, started it in the winter, and it just started right up and idled at a consistent level.
1/22/10, 04:56 PM
#38
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I've head a lot of people saying that they are not going for the 2011, or are happy with their 2010 because it's a great looking car and 315hp is enough power for practical purposes.
As well, I have seen quite a few people saying that they aren't seriously interested in any upcoming special editions because a 412hp GT will be more than enough power.
The questions then is, how much power is enough? How much power does the "average" Mustang buyer need or want? Are we coming close to hitting the ceiling of what is necessary or practical in a day to day car? We are now driving the kids to school in cars that are quicker than big block muscle cars of the 60s!
I realize there are a minority of people for which nothing is enough, but for most people a 12/13 second car is more than enough to have their fun with. Is there a practical limit to it? Are we there yet?
As well, I have seen quite a few people saying that they aren't seriously interested in any upcoming special editions because a 412hp GT will be more than enough power.
The questions then is, how much power is enough? How much power does the "average" Mustang buyer need or want? Are we coming close to hitting the ceiling of what is necessary or practical in a day to day car? We are now driving the kids to school in cars that are quicker than big block muscle cars of the 60s!
I realize there are a minority of people for which nothing is enough, but for most people a 12/13 second car is more than enough to have their fun with. Is there a practical limit to it? Are we there yet?
) if i get the whim i'll get a 5.0 for $15,000 as opposed to $30,000 now!
1/22/10, 07:11 PM
#40
i've got a 2010 that i plan to keep forever.... do i think the idea of having a 5.0 L engine is awesome? hell yeh i do, but the only reason is because of its historical nature... will i trade up for the 2011? hell NO. talk about a waste of money.. **** cars depreciate so fast... ill enjoy my NEW car...and years in the future (after the 2010 is paid off ) if i get the whim i'll get a 5.0 for $15,000 as opposed to $30,000 now!
) if i get the whim i'll get a 5.0 for $15,000 as opposed to $30,000 now!