Ford responds to the NHTSA investigation/MT-82 problems: your fault
I Have No Life
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 10,446
Likes: 12
From: Canada
So can we assume that any cars built after a certain date will have all of the fixes that are being incorporated into this TSB? I hope so since my car was built last week ... However .. who is to say the transmission wasn't built 3 months ago and just shipped to the USA?
..they'll know where which parts went.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: March 21, 2010
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
From: Bridgeport, Ct
There is also that this a six speed with one over drive gear. If some one drives it by gear number based on their previous 5spds or cars with 6spds with 2 OD gears they are going to be making much more severe downshifts than they think they are. This IMO this may explain many of the 'lockouts' on downshifts.
my lockouts are at a dead stop..
1st and 2nd gear..
Member
Joined: December 17, 2011
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!! After reading through this entire thread, I registered here just to post this.
My 2011 GT does the same thing as you mention pony racer. It actually makes me anxious taking it out of gear because I don't know if I'll get it back in gear when the light changes.
This is the main issue I take with the MT82. I definitely think that much like the dreaded engine tick, there are many causes to the "transmission problems" people get. There is no 1 issue for which it would make everyone happy by fixing.
I originally had very rough shifts, and the inability to shift from 1->2 when the car wasn't warmed up. I got the fluid TSB performed and it helped with that immensely... but a few months later it's back to feeling rough... almost like the fluid broke down. I also have been getting locked out of 1st gear as you said... both before and after the fluid swap.
If I could get the 1st gear lockout addressed I'd be very happy with my MT82... I don't get any grinding or anything seriously bad.
After 1 year of ownership, I've had no dependability issues. But I've had the following, almost all of which I've taken the car in for:
-Engine ticking noise which was resolved by new engine (none of the other common fixes worked for my car
).
-Occasional transmission "locked out of gear issue" (never took it in because it's not happening every day and I'm fairly sure Ford will tell me they can't reproduce it, or that it's normal).
-Unable to shift to second when engine is cold (TSB fluid swap helped at first, seems to be more rough again).
-Various rattles inside the car cabin (some resolved, some not).
-Creaking sound coming from trunk area under acceleration and braking (under investigation, have an appointment).
-Very obvious 1-1.5" paint defect from the Ford factory along edge of right rear wheel well.
-Driver's side window solenoid causing loud popping/clicking noise when rolling window up or down (was resolved by replacement).
-Strange 2" section of some sort of mold growing on the rubber trim piece at the base of the drivers side window since I got the car. It hasn't spread or anything but always comes back when it's moist/cold out (tried to get it warrantied but Ford wouldn't authorize replacing the part, opting instead to try to treat it with some solution to hopefully kill it off (didn't work). The replacement costs about $100 retail. I'm probably just going to buy the part myself and hope for the best.
I have to be fair and note that many issues above were fixed/addressed by Ford, so I have to give them credit for not turning the blind eye in my particular case. In cases where I didn't get what I wanted from my visits, it was rarely because of Ford.... usually it was just the particular dealership's service department didn't give a ****.
I should note I've never done a burnout, and I treat my car very, very well and keep it extremely clean. Is this list of issues normal for the first year of owning a new car? Or do I just have bad luck?
My 2011 GT does the same thing as you mention pony racer. It actually makes me anxious taking it out of gear because I don't know if I'll get it back in gear when the light changes.
This is the main issue I take with the MT82. I definitely think that much like the dreaded engine tick, there are many causes to the "transmission problems" people get. There is no 1 issue for which it would make everyone happy by fixing.
I originally had very rough shifts, and the inability to shift from 1->2 when the car wasn't warmed up. I got the fluid TSB performed and it helped with that immensely... but a few months later it's back to feeling rough... almost like the fluid broke down. I also have been getting locked out of 1st gear as you said... both before and after the fluid swap.
If I could get the 1st gear lockout addressed I'd be very happy with my MT82... I don't get any grinding or anything seriously bad.
After 1 year of ownership, I've had no dependability issues. But I've had the following, almost all of which I've taken the car in for:
-Engine ticking noise which was resolved by new engine (none of the other common fixes worked for my car
).-Occasional transmission "locked out of gear issue" (never took it in because it's not happening every day and I'm fairly sure Ford will tell me they can't reproduce it, or that it's normal).
-Unable to shift to second when engine is cold (TSB fluid swap helped at first, seems to be more rough again).
-Various rattles inside the car cabin (some resolved, some not).
-Creaking sound coming from trunk area under acceleration and braking (under investigation, have an appointment).
-Very obvious 1-1.5" paint defect from the Ford factory along edge of right rear wheel well.
-Driver's side window solenoid causing loud popping/clicking noise when rolling window up or down (was resolved by replacement).
-Strange 2" section of some sort of mold growing on the rubber trim piece at the base of the drivers side window since I got the car. It hasn't spread or anything but always comes back when it's moist/cold out (tried to get it warrantied but Ford wouldn't authorize replacing the part, opting instead to try to treat it with some solution to hopefully kill it off (didn't work). The replacement costs about $100 retail. I'm probably just going to buy the part myself and hope for the best.
I have to be fair and note that many issues above were fixed/addressed by Ford, so I have to give them credit for not turning the blind eye in my particular case. In cases where I didn't get what I wanted from my visits, it was rarely because of Ford.... usually it was just the particular dealership's service department didn't give a ****.
I should note I've never done a burnout, and I treat my car very, very well and keep it extremely clean. Is this list of issues normal for the first year of owning a new car? Or do I just have bad luck?
Last edited by Seventh; Dec 17, 2011 at 08:14 PM.
Just Plain Rude!
Joined: February 1, 2004
Posts: 3,393
Likes: 18
From: Denton, TX
After 1 year of ownership, I've had no dependability issues. But I've had the following, almost all of which I've taken the car in for:
-Engine ticking noise which was resolved by new engine (none of the other common fixes worked for my car).
-Occasional transmission "locked out of gear issue" (never took it in because it's not happening every day and I'm fairly sure Ford will tell me they can't reproduce it, or that it's normal).
-Unable to shift to second when engine is cold (TSB fluid swap helped at first, seems to be more rough again).
-Various rattles inside the car cabin (some resolved, some not).
-Creaking sound coming from trunk area under acceleration and braking (under investigation, have an appointment).
-Very obvious 1-1.5" paint defect from the Ford factory along edge of right rear wheel well.
-Driver's side window solenoid causing loud popping/clicking noise when rolling window up or down (was resolved by replacement).
-Strange 2" section of some sort of mold growing on the rubber trim piece at the base of the drivers side window since I got the car. It hasn't spread or anything but always comes back when it's moist/cold out (tried to get it warrantied but Ford wouldn't authorize replacing the part, opting instead to try to treat it with some solution to hopefully kill it off (didn't work). The replacement costs about $100 retail. I'm probably just going to buy the part myself and hope for the best.
I have to be fair and note that many issues above were fixed/addressed by Ford, so I have to give them credit for not turning the blind eye in my particular case. In cases where I didn't get what I wanted from my visits, it was rarely because of Ford.... usually it was just the particular dealership's service department didn't give a ****.
Is this list of issues normal for the first year of owning a new car? Or do I just have bad luck?
-Engine ticking noise which was resolved by new engine (none of the other common fixes worked for my car
).-Occasional transmission "locked out of gear issue" (never took it in because it's not happening every day and I'm fairly sure Ford will tell me they can't reproduce it, or that it's normal).
-Unable to shift to second when engine is cold (TSB fluid swap helped at first, seems to be more rough again).
-Various rattles inside the car cabin (some resolved, some not).
-Creaking sound coming from trunk area under acceleration and braking (under investigation, have an appointment).
-Very obvious 1-1.5" paint defect from the Ford factory along edge of right rear wheel well.
-Driver's side window solenoid causing loud popping/clicking noise when rolling window up or down (was resolved by replacement).
-Strange 2" section of some sort of mold growing on the rubber trim piece at the base of the drivers side window since I got the car. It hasn't spread or anything but always comes back when it's moist/cold out (tried to get it warrantied but Ford wouldn't authorize replacing the part, opting instead to try to treat it with some solution to hopefully kill it off (didn't work). The replacement costs about $100 retail. I'm probably just going to buy the part myself and hope for the best.
I have to be fair and note that many issues above were fixed/addressed by Ford, so I have to give them credit for not turning the blind eye in my particular case. In cases where I didn't get what I wanted from my visits, it was rarely because of Ford.... usually it was just the particular dealership's service department didn't give a ****.
Is this list of issues normal for the first year of owning a new car? Or do I just have bad luck?
Bullitt Member
Joined: October 6, 2011
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
It's pretty common to find a gear locked out at a dead stop every so often in any MT car. I've never had an MT car that didn't do it every so often. Some more often than others. It's just a luck of wheel sort of thing normally. If it is happening like every single time then there's likely a problem. If it's like once a day or less, probably not.
Member
Joined: December 17, 2011
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
It's pretty common to find a gear locked out at a dead stop every so often in any MT car. I've never had an MT car that didn't do it every so often. Some more often than others. It's just a luck of wheel sort of thing normally. If it is happening like every single time then there's likely a problem. If it's like once a day or less, probably not.
What cars have you had this happen on?
My only point of reference is an 1982 truck which had no such issues, but of course the technology was drastically different.
Why can we humans not, in this day and age, make a manual transmission that doesn't have this type of issue?!?!
Spam Connoisseur
I got هَبوبed
I got هَبوبed
Joined: September 8, 2009
Posts: 9,651
Likes: 7
From: Sun City AZ
That's pretty interesting... really?
What cars have you had this happen on?
My only point of reference is an 1982 truck which had no such issues, but of course the technology was drastically different.
Why can we humans not, in this day and age, make a manual transmission that doesn't have this type of issue?!?!
What cars have you had this happen on?
My only point of reference is an 1982 truck which had no such issues, but of course the technology was drastically different.
Why can we humans not, in this day and age, make a manual transmission that doesn't have this type of issue?!?!
Bullitt Member
Joined: October 6, 2011
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
It's because it is inherent to how a manual transmission works. The synchros simply don't do much of anything when they aren't spinning. If they've stopped such that the teeth are too far out of alignment the shift will 'lock out'.
Last edited by 97GT12; Dec 18, 2011 at 08:38 PM.
Member
Joined: June 14, 2010
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Well it has been a week now since I got my 2011 6M back from Ford. I have had some form of transmission problems from about 300 miles on now at 7,700 miles. It got to the point of needing tremendous force to get it into 1st or reverse. And to the point of almost missing every down shift. It is worlds better now but still to me not 100% but I don’t think Ford will ever get it to the point it was the first 300 miles. But here is how the work order reads.
Please review SSM 21614
CK operation verified concern. Oasis. SSM 21614. All symptoms mentioned in the SSM matched what I am experiencing. Removed transmission assembly per workshop manual. CK pressure plate bolts under SSM 21614 part number. Removed clutch assembly for further inspection. Nothing else at this time. Reinstalled clutch assembly. Note: 1 of 4 exhaust flange studs broke. Removed remainder of studs. Installed 4 new exhaust flange nuts. Bled Clutch system as necessary. Road test, No problems shifting.
6 - W715869-S439 Bolt and wash
4 – W714265-S441 Nut
1 - 87511 M10 Flat Wash
1 – 4293 10mmX30mm Bolt
Please review SSM 21614
CK operation verified concern. Oasis. SSM 21614. All symptoms mentioned in the SSM matched what I am experiencing. Removed transmission assembly per workshop manual. CK pressure plate bolts under SSM 21614 part number. Removed clutch assembly for further inspection. Nothing else at this time. Reinstalled clutch assembly. Note: 1 of 4 exhaust flange studs broke. Removed remainder of studs. Installed 4 new exhaust flange nuts. Bled Clutch system as necessary. Road test, No problems shifting.
6 - W715869-S439 Bolt and wash
4 – W714265-S441 Nut
1 - 87511 M10 Flat Wash
1 – 4293 10mmX30mm Bolt
NOT CURRENTLY ACTIVE ON THIS SITE! DO NOT USE PM FEATURE!
Joined: October 25, 2010
Posts: 5,279
Likes: 16
From: Dearborn, MI
YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!! After reading through this entire thread, I registered here just to post this.
My 2011 GT does the same thing as you mention pony racer. It actually makes me anxious taking it out of gear because I don't know if I'll get it back in gear when the light changes.
My 2011 GT does the same thing as you mention pony racer. It actually makes me anxious taking it out of gear because I don't know if I'll get it back in gear when the light changes.
Thank you for crossing over to TMS!
There are still outstanding concerns with your vehicles. Please make another appointment with your Ford dealers for diagnosis. Then PM me so I can reopen your cases. Please send the best daytime number for you, since it’s been a while.Deysha
Mach 1 Member
Joined: March 21, 2010
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
From: Bridgeport, Ct
It's pretty common to find a gear locked out at a dead stop every so often in any MT car. I've never had an MT car that didn't do it every so often. Some more often than others. It's just a luck of wheel sort of thing normally. If it is happening like every single time then there's likely a problem. If it's like once a day or less, probably not.
problem is it happens EVERYDAY on this one..
Bullitt Member
Joined: August 29, 2010
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
From: San Jose, CA
NHTSA Closes Investigation:
NHTSA Action Number : PE11024 NHTSA Recall Campaign Number : N/A
Vehicle Make / Model: *** Model Year(s):
**** FORD / MUSTANG *** 2011-2012
Manufacturer : FORD MOTOR COMPANY
Component(s) :
POWER TRAIN:MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Date Investigation Opened : August 3, 2011
Date Investigation Closed : December 14, 2011
Summary:
The Office of Defects Investigations (ODI) analyzed complaint data provided by Ford as well as complaints submitted to ODI from consumers. In total, there were 364 unique reports indicating various shift quality issues while driving. Ford identified several factors that may contribute to shift quality concerns in the subject vehicles, including cold transmission, clutch stay-out at high engine speeds, gear clash or grinding, and gradual loosening of clutch plate bolts in some early production vehicles. The largest percentage of complaints indicated higher than expected shift efforts in cold ambient temperatures. These complaints were related to transmission fluid viscosity and the higher shift efforts resolved themselves with the drivetrain warming. Ford published technical service bulletin TSB 11-3-18 to inform technicians that a lower viscosity fluid was available for use to address the cold shift issues. The clutch stay-out condition typically occurs at engine speeds greater than 4000 rpm. It does not prevent the selection of any gear, but may delay clutch re-engagement depending on how long the driver maintains the higher engine speed. Ford identified rotating inertia of the clutch components as the root cause and replacement clutch pedal parts were made available under Ford TSB 10-19-4. A number of reports alleged increasing difficulty selecting gears along with gear clash or grinding. Grinding or notchy gear shifts may be caused by gradual loosening of clutch plate fasteners, which is promoted by certain aggressive shifting. This condition is progressive in nature and initially results in symptoms related to shift quality/feel. Clutch plate bolt loosening will not result in inability to select any gear unless the progressive symptoms are ignored until complete clutch failure occurs. ODI’s analysis identified only five complaints alleging an inability to shift into gear due to loose clutch plate bolts. None of these resulted in a stall and gear shifting could occur before engine start. A revised fastener was designed and implemented in production and is available for service through a special service message. There is no indication of loss of motive power or unreasonable safety risk associated with the alleged defect in the subject vehicles. This preliminary evaluation is closed.
Vehicle Make / Model: *** Model Year(s):
**** FORD / MUSTANG *** 2011-2012
Manufacturer : FORD MOTOR COMPANY
Component(s) :
POWER TRAIN:MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Date Investigation Opened : August 3, 2011
Date Investigation Closed : December 14, 2011
Summary:
The Office of Defects Investigations (ODI) analyzed complaint data provided by Ford as well as complaints submitted to ODI from consumers. In total, there were 364 unique reports indicating various shift quality issues while driving. Ford identified several factors that may contribute to shift quality concerns in the subject vehicles, including cold transmission, clutch stay-out at high engine speeds, gear clash or grinding, and gradual loosening of clutch plate bolts in some early production vehicles. The largest percentage of complaints indicated higher than expected shift efforts in cold ambient temperatures. These complaints were related to transmission fluid viscosity and the higher shift efforts resolved themselves with the drivetrain warming. Ford published technical service bulletin TSB 11-3-18 to inform technicians that a lower viscosity fluid was available for use to address the cold shift issues. The clutch stay-out condition typically occurs at engine speeds greater than 4000 rpm. It does not prevent the selection of any gear, but may delay clutch re-engagement depending on how long the driver maintains the higher engine speed. Ford identified rotating inertia of the clutch components as the root cause and replacement clutch pedal parts were made available under Ford TSB 10-19-4. A number of reports alleged increasing difficulty selecting gears along with gear clash or grinding. Grinding or notchy gear shifts may be caused by gradual loosening of clutch plate fasteners, which is promoted by certain aggressive shifting. This condition is progressive in nature and initially results in symptoms related to shift quality/feel. Clutch plate bolt loosening will not result in inability to select any gear unless the progressive symptoms are ignored until complete clutch failure occurs. ODI’s analysis identified only five complaints alleging an inability to shift into gear due to loose clutch plate bolts. None of these resulted in a stall and gear shifting could occur before engine start. A revised fastener was designed and implemented in production and is available for service through a special service message. There is no indication of loss of motive power or unreasonable safety risk associated with the alleged defect in the subject vehicles. This preliminary evaluation is closed.
Member
Joined: June 14, 2010
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: NJ
This condition is progressive in nature and initially results in symptoms related to shift quality/feel. Clutch plate bolt loosening will not result in inability to select any gear unless the progressive symptoms are ignored until complete clutch failure occurs.
They close the case, I close the thread. All the info you need is somewhere in it, search is your friend 
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