Forced induction on a stock 5.0...
1/25/11, 04:15 PM
#21
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The new 5.0 engine can easily handle low boost forced induction!! 6-7 psi easy!! It has all mostly all forged internals and it was created to be able to handle future modification! It's when people want to increase the boost level to like 20 psi or higher when the problems occur!!
1/25/11, 04:34 PM
#22
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Mostly all forged internals? 
My take after owning a 300 rwhp car, then 440, then 501, is that anything over a solid 450 to the tires means running drag radials year 'round which is something I don't want to do. For the new 5.0 to hit low 400s (425) with bolt on mods means that it is perfect for what I would realistically want to do with a street car.
My take after owning a 300 rwhp car, then 440, then 501, is that anything over a solid 450 to the tires means running drag radials year 'round which is something I don't want to do. For the new 5.0 to hit low 400s (425) with bolt on mods means that it is perfect for what I would realistically want to do with a street car.
1/25/11, 05:02 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by Gaspi101
Beautiful! And it's only for the low low price of a 2002 mustang gt! Would love to have it, but I really can't justify that kind of dough to the wife....
8,000 miles one her, shaker 500 system, and almost every performance option available back in that year. Black paint looked factory fresh too not a swirl mark on there! Sadly thats changed to swirls and hard water stains after i washed her in my driveway
1/25/11, 05:15 PM
#24
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If that is attainable without risk, why isn't the Shelby GT350 anywhere near 800?
Like current Mustang GT rods (4.6), Coyote connecting rods are forged from powdered metal. Optimized for reduced weight and redesigned for uniform bearing loads around the big end, the Coyote rod eliminates the 4.6 rod's balance pad. These rods are plenty strong for stock rpm and power but will not survive forced induction.
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec.../photo_25.html
*Existing 4.6 bearing sizes proved bulletproof and the Coyote crankshaft shares journal sizes with the 4.6 crank.
**This extra material is best seen in the main-bearing bulkheads, which are now a couple millimeters thicker. Fastener sizes are larger too. All are generous, and should prove absolutely bulletproof in naturally aspirated trim. They also pack the reserve strength to withstand us hot rodders bolting on blowers. This bodes well for modular engine building as we've just gained a strong, lightweight aluminum block with production engine economies of scale. Too bad the connecting rod isn't as over-built, but that's getting ahead of the story.
***The Coyote team says the forged. powdered-metal connecting rod is the least robust link in the 5.0 chain. Engineers noted it is absolutely strong enough for its naturally aspirated application in the Mustang, but just absolutely strong enough. It's worth noting that while the Coyote rod shares its big- and small-end diameters plus its center-to-center length with the 4.6 rod, the Coyote rod has been redesigned to more evenly distribute bearing loads and is definitely an improved piece.
Most ominously, supercharging will require a stronger forged rod, so we expect to see those, and, no doubt, a short-block in the FRPP catalog before long. This adds a whole new layer of commitment to bolting a blower on a Coyote. We'll have to let the brave among us prove the standard Coyote rods' boost tolerance. For those planning on a rod-exchanging teardown right away, Ford says the Cobra's Manley forged rod will just fit, but you must be careful. No word on how to package a forged piston and rod combination.
****Pistons Hypereutectic, short-skirt, flat-top w/four equal valve reliefs; moly friction-reducing coating; oil-jet cooled
Connecting Rod Powered metal forging, I-beam, no balance pad
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec.../photo_25.html
*Existing 4.6 bearing sizes proved bulletproof and the Coyote crankshaft shares journal sizes with the 4.6 crank.
**This extra material is best seen in the main-bearing bulkheads, which are now a couple millimeters thicker. Fastener sizes are larger too. All are generous, and should prove absolutely bulletproof in naturally aspirated trim. They also pack the reserve strength to withstand us hot rodders bolting on blowers. This bodes well for modular engine building as we've just gained a strong, lightweight aluminum block with production engine economies of scale. Too bad the connecting rod isn't as over-built, but that's getting ahead of the story.
***The Coyote team says the forged. powdered-metal connecting rod is the least robust link in the 5.0 chain. Engineers noted it is absolutely strong enough for its naturally aspirated application in the Mustang, but just absolutely strong enough. It's worth noting that while the Coyote rod shares its big- and small-end diameters plus its center-to-center length with the 4.6 rod, the Coyote rod has been redesigned to more evenly distribute bearing loads and is definitely an improved piece.
Most ominously, supercharging will require a stronger forged rod, so we expect to see those, and, no doubt, a short-block in the FRPP catalog before long. This adds a whole new layer of commitment to bolting a blower on a Coyote. We'll have to let the brave among us prove the standard Coyote rods' boost tolerance. For those planning on a rod-exchanging teardown right away, Ford says the Cobra's Manley forged rod will just fit, but you must be careful. No word on how to package a forged piston and rod combination.
****Pistons Hypereutectic, short-skirt, flat-top w/four equal valve reliefs; moly friction-reducing coating; oil-jet cooled
Connecting Rod Powered metal forging, I-beam, no balance pad
Last edited by cdynaco; 1/25/11 at 05:37 PM.
1/25/11, 07:17 PM
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If Ford is willing to warranty a product at 7lbs, you can bet your house that it will take it for a good amount of time.
I think anything from 7-9 lbs will be fine But there are to many variables to say if your going to get 5,000 miles or 100,000
I think anything at 10lbs or more will need meth to be fairly safe.
I think anything from 7-9 lbs will be fine But there are to many variables to say if your going to get 5,000 miles or 100,000
I think anything at 10lbs or more will need meth to be fairly safe.
1/25/11, 07:23 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by OAC_Sparky
Save up $8,000
Buy your wife a $2,000 ring
Tell her you spent $8,000 on a ring
Happy Driving!
Buy your wife a $2,000 ring
Tell her you spent $8,000 on a ring
Happy Driving!
1/25/11, 08:03 PM
#30
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Figured I'd add my 2 cents!
1-save $8,000 buy $2,000 ring get FI sounds genius to me!
2-Back on topic there is alot of discussion about what the limits are & what the 5.0 will handle.
3-My thought on this WAIT & SEE.Let someone else do the testing & the breaking.
4-Should not be much longer b-4 we all know exactly what the 5.0 will handle safely.I think the SAFE part is the most important.However if someone else wants to be the guinea pig for us I say GO FOR IT pump her up & see what she can handle that way we will know what not to do!
1-save $8,000 buy $2,000 ring get FI sounds genius to me!
2-Back on topic there is alot of discussion about what the limits are & what the 5.0 will handle.
3-My thought on this WAIT & SEE.Let someone else do the testing & the breaking.
4-Should not be much longer b-4 we all know exactly what the 5.0 will handle safely.I think the SAFE part is the most important.However if someone else wants to be the guinea pig for us I say GO FOR IT pump her up & see what she can handle that way we will know what not to do!
1/25/11, 08:23 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by knk11stang
Figured I'd add my 2 cents!
1-save $8,000 buy $2,000 ring get FI sounds genius to me!
2-Back on topic there is alot of discussion about what the limits are & what the 5.0 will handle.
3-My thought on this WAIT & SEE.Let someone else do the testing & the breaking.
4-Should not be much longer b-4 we all know exactly what the 5.0 will handle safely.I think the SAFE part is the most important.However if someone else wants to be the guinea pig for us I say GO FOR IT pump her up & see what she can handle that way we will know what not to do!
1-save $8,000 buy $2,000 ring get FI sounds genius to me!
2-Back on topic there is alot of discussion about what the limits are & what the 5.0 will handle.
3-My thought on this WAIT & SEE.Let someone else do the testing & the breaking.
4-Should not be much longer b-4 we all know exactly what the 5.0 will handle safely.I think the SAFE part is the most important.However if someone else wants to be the guinea pig for us I say GO FOR IT pump her up & see what she can handle that way we will know what not to do!
1/26/11, 07:04 AM
#32
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Obviously 800rwhp was not safe on the stock block, hence the engine blew. That doesn't change that as far as I can tell, that's the only documented boost-related engine failure thus far. The only thing we can take away from this event is that 800rwhp is above the 'safe' limit on the 5.0, but by no means does that mean 450rwhp is the limit, lol. I really don't know where you've pulled that number from.
1/26/11, 08:45 AM
#33
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Short version. It's too soon to tell.
Long version. The car has been out for less than a year, and you guys are making claims about the strength of the internals when very few have let go.
In fact, most of the ones that did grenade, were from piston failure and not rod failure. These new rods are pretty stout compared to the toothbrush sized rods of yesteryear.
Boost doesn't kill the motors!!!! Why have guys ran up to and likely exceeding 12-14 psi on the stock block for several thousand miles of abuse and countless times down the 1320. Whereas plenty of others have blown rods out of the block on 8-10 psi. It's not the boost, it's RPMs and detonation that cause these failures.
Sure the 5.0 has higher compression, but that doesn't mean it can't handle boost. In fact it means it will make more power with less boost.
Whoever commented that someone buying a new car and slapping a $6-7K blower on it isn't worried about $3K is crazy! $3K is $3K regardless of how well you are doing financially.
Bottom line is this, if you want to go with a blower for these cars, make sure you have an excellent dyno tune lined up, monitor your A/F and fuel pressure, and keep traction control OFF!
Preparation is key and you don't want to go cheap just for the pursuit of more power. Do things right the first time by making sure you have a clutch to handle the power, the fuel system to keep up, suspension to keep you going straight, and a dyno tune to insure you are running a "safe" tune.
Long version. The car has been out for less than a year, and you guys are making claims about the strength of the internals when very few have let go.
In fact, most of the ones that did grenade, were from piston failure and not rod failure. These new rods are pretty stout compared to the toothbrush sized rods of yesteryear.
Boost doesn't kill the motors!!!! Why have guys ran up to and likely exceeding 12-14 psi on the stock block for several thousand miles of abuse and countless times down the 1320. Whereas plenty of others have blown rods out of the block on 8-10 psi. It's not the boost, it's RPMs and detonation that cause these failures.
Sure the 5.0 has higher compression, but that doesn't mean it can't handle boost. In fact it means it will make more power with less boost.
Whoever commented that someone buying a new car and slapping a $6-7K blower on it isn't worried about $3K is crazy! $3K is $3K regardless of how well you are doing financially.
Bottom line is this, if you want to go with a blower for these cars, make sure you have an excellent dyno tune lined up, monitor your A/F and fuel pressure, and keep traction control OFF!
Preparation is key and you don't want to go cheap just for the pursuit of more power. Do things right the first time by making sure you have a clutch to handle the power, the fuel system to keep up, suspension to keep you going straight, and a dyno tune to insure you are running a "safe" tune.
1/27/11, 12:22 AM
#36
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As to my guess (I said maybe?), I took the base from the article, some from postings, and made a comment.
If you are breaking down engines like Ford did, and have better info, then by all means please tell the story.
Shelby stopped at 650 for the GT350. Time will tell.
1/27/11, 12:27 AM
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And all I have to go on is that original article (which I thought was pretty thorough), and some posts, compared to the known info of the 4.6 - I don't have a 5.0 and I'm not cracking into any blocks.
1/27/11, 07:55 AM
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Now idea who Rev Auto is, so no
And cdynaco, your post:
Originally Posted by cdynaco
This is what kind of surprised me about the 5.0 vs 4.6. The stock internals have them capped and about the same maximum limits. Stock for stock the 5.0 is a big gain with an extra 100HP right out of the box. But due to its higher compression ratio, the maximum limits are near the same. Perhaps the 5.0 rods are slightly stronger, but not enough to get much beyond the 'safe' 500HP maximum that the 4.6 was typically stated to be. Maybe 525 or 550?
Originally Posted by cdynaco
Anything much beyond that needs stronger internals on both engines to avoid catastrophic failures.
You may end up being correct, but for the time being, this is all speculation. The rods in the 5.0 are stout - perhaps not quite as good as a truly forged rod, but nonetheless, way better than the 4.6.
Edit: For some reason my post keeps getting automatically modified by the server to add two quotes instead of one. I'm not sure why..
Last edited by KonaBlue5.0; 1/27/11 at 07:56 AM.
1/27/11, 01:04 PM
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But that article was pretty informative and made clear the limitations are not way beyond the 4.6 with stock internals.
Last edited by cdynaco; 1/27/11 at 01:06 PM.
1/27/11, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cdynaco
Sorry, didn't mean to make it sound so matter of fact.
But that article was pretty informative and made clear the limitations are not way beyond the 4.6 with stock internals.