Forced induction on a stock 5.0...
1/24/11, 08:24 PM
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Forced induction on a stock 5.0...
Is it true that the stock connecting rods can't take it? Not even 5-6psi? Fi for shame!
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec.../photo_25.html
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec.../photo_25.html
1/24/11, 09:37 PM
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I read different things but if FR is offering 7psi with warranty, id say you're ok. Im not sure if Roush has released a 2011 stage3 yet but if yes, check if they did any internal mods before bolting on their SC.
1/24/11, 09:43 PM
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Is it true that the stock connecting rods can't take it? Not even 5-6psi? Fi for shame!
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec.../photo_25.html
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec.../photo_25.html
The Coyote is not an engine designed specifically for boosted application. It's lightweight valvetrain and rotating assembly, as well as it's 11:0 compression ratio is designed to make power and torque without the need for forced induction.
There are cars out there already with blowers on them. Some are making pretty big power. I have heard of one failure. Outfits like MMR are already releasing short and long block upgrades for the engine.
The engine was designed to meet certain requirements for strength, longevity, reliability, power and performance. It does those. To expect a factory engine to reliably withstand the added stresses of super or turbocharging is asking quite a bit more.
1/24/11, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jlmounce
keep in mind the article in question was part of the March 2010 release of the magazine, which means the article was likely written in January 2010. The car had not yet quite been released and no real-world testing had yet ben done.
The Coyote is not an engine designed specifically for boosted application. It's lightweight valvetrain and rotating assembly, as well as it's 11:0 compression ratio is designed to make power and torque without the need for forced induction.
There are cars out there already with blowers on them. Some are making pretty big power. I have heard of one failure. Outfits like MMR are already releasing short and long block upgrades for the engine.
The engine was designed to meet certain requirements for strength, longevity, reliability, power and performance. It does those. To expect a factory engine to reliably withstand the added stresses of super or turbocharging is asking quite a bit more.
1/24/11, 10:14 PM
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keep in mind the article in question was part of the March 2010 release of the magazine, which means the article was likely written in January 2010. The car had not yet quite been released and no real-world testing had yet ben done.
The Coyote is not an engine designed specifically for boosted application. It's lightweight valvetrain and rotating assembly, as well as it's 11:0 compression ratio is designed to make power and torque without the need for forced induction.
There are cars out there already with blowers on them. Some are making pretty big power. I have heard of one failure. Outfits like MMR are already releasing short and long block upgrades for the engine.
The engine was designed to meet certain requirements for strength, longevity, reliability, power and performance. It does those. To expect a factory engine to reliably withstand the added stresses of super or turbocharging is asking quite a bit more.
The Coyote is not an engine designed specifically for boosted application. It's lightweight valvetrain and rotating assembly, as well as it's 11:0 compression ratio is designed to make power and torque without the need for forced induction.
There are cars out there already with blowers on them. Some are making pretty big power. I have heard of one failure. Outfits like MMR are already releasing short and long block upgrades for the engine.
The engine was designed to meet certain requirements for strength, longevity, reliability, power and performance. It does those. To expect a factory engine to reliably withstand the added stresses of super or turbocharging is asking quite a bit more.
1/25/11, 04:03 AM
#7
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I just got the Email saying Roush released its Supercharger yesterday
http://store.roushperformance.com/de...ign=newsletter
And they are claiming 525 HP
Add serious power to your 2011 5.0L Ford Mustang with the Calibrated ROUSH 2011 Mustang Supercharger Kit. This supercharger delivers 525+ horsepower to the 2011-2012 Ford Mustang GT with the 5.0L, 4-valve V8 powertrain.
The Calibrated ROUSH 2011 Mustang Supercharger Kit belongs to the TVS (Twin Vortices Series) line of superchargers developed by ROUSH that have set new standards for performance and reliability. This line of superchargers has been used and proven for years in ROUSH-built high horsepower vehicles.
• Produces 525+ hp and 465 ft-lbs of torque
• ROUSH R2300 2011 Mustang Supercharger Tuner Kit
• Featuring Eaton TVS Technology
• Heavy duty 1st sheave FEAD system
• Twin Vortices Series features four-lobe rotors and high-flow inlet and outlet ports -- greatly enhancing thermal efficiency, resulting in greater volumetric capacity at higher RPM
• Twin 60mm throttle body
• Larger intercooler, low temp radiator, and degas bottle
• Low restriction ROUSH air induction system
• Highly refined ROUSH PCM calibration
• Designed for the 2011-2012 Ford Mustang GT 5.0L-4v engine
• For manual transmission only
• CARB E.O. Pending -- Not currently for sale in California or other "green" states
• Backed by ROUSHs 3 year / 36,000 mile limited parts warranty (See ROUSH Warranty for details)
• Part #421142
Price: $6,099.00
The Calibrated ROUSH 2011 Mustang Supercharger Kit belongs to the TVS (Twin Vortices Series) line of superchargers developed by ROUSH that have set new standards for performance and reliability. This line of superchargers has been used and proven for years in ROUSH-built high horsepower vehicles.
• Produces 525+ hp and 465 ft-lbs of torque
• ROUSH R2300 2011 Mustang Supercharger Tuner Kit
• Featuring Eaton TVS Technology
• Heavy duty 1st sheave FEAD system
• Twin Vortices Series features four-lobe rotors and high-flow inlet and outlet ports -- greatly enhancing thermal efficiency, resulting in greater volumetric capacity at higher RPM
• Twin 60mm throttle body
• Larger intercooler, low temp radiator, and degas bottle
• Low restriction ROUSH air induction system
• Highly refined ROUSH PCM calibration
• Designed for the 2011-2012 Ford Mustang GT 5.0L-4v engine
• For manual transmission only
• CARB E.O. Pending -- Not currently for sale in California or other "green" states
• Backed by ROUSHs 3 year / 36,000 mile limited parts warranty (See ROUSH Warranty for details)
• Part #421142
Price: $6,099.00
And they are claiming 525 HP
1/25/11, 05:30 AM
#8
Legacy TMS Member
keep in mind the article in question was part of the March 2010 release of the magazine, which means the article was likely written in January 2010. The car had not yet quite been released and no real-world testing had yet ben done.
The Coyote is not an engine designed specifically for boosted application. It's lightweight valvetrain and rotating assembly, as well as it's 11:0 compression ratio is designed to make power and torque without the need for forced induction.
There are cars out there already with blowers on them. Some are making pretty big power. I have heard of one failure. Outfits like MMR are already releasing short and long block upgrades for the engine.
The engine was designed to meet certain requirements for strength, longevity, reliability, power and performance. It does those. To expect a factory engine to reliably withstand the added stresses of super or turbocharging is asking quite a bit more.
The Coyote is not an engine designed specifically for boosted application. It's lightweight valvetrain and rotating assembly, as well as it's 11:0 compression ratio is designed to make power and torque without the need for forced induction.
There are cars out there already with blowers on them. Some are making pretty big power. I have heard of one failure. Outfits like MMR are already releasing short and long block upgrades for the engine.
The engine was designed to meet certain requirements for strength, longevity, reliability, power and performance. It does those. To expect a factory engine to reliably withstand the added stresses of super or turbocharging is asking quite a bit more.
1/25/11, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Siber Express
I just got the Email saying Roush released its Supercharger yesterday
http://store.roushperformance.com/de...ign=newsletter
And they are claiming 525 HP
http://store.roushperformance.com/de...ign=newsletter
And they are claiming 525 HP
1/25/11, 08:58 AM
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1/25/11, 09:39 AM
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I can't remember where I read it or who posted it but some rod manufacturing company claims that the stock rods let go at around 450 rwhp.
by the time my power train warranty is up, we'll know for sure how reliable the rods are. That's when I'll be making a decision on whether or not to keep the car and whether to go FI or not.
I know it's wishful thinking but if there were a factory option to add the forged manley rods into the car's build for say, an extra $1000, just imagine how many guys would be jumping all over that! those manelys cost ford $55 each. The stock rods they use instead only cost them $1.60.
You can see why the bean counters are happy but surely them making an extra $600+ (if this were a build option) per car would have to please SOMEONE! .. besides the owner of the car...
1/25/11, 10:00 AM
#13
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The mustang world knows that there are numerous FI 5.0's out there. I think the big question is how long they will last? Yeah every tuner is claiming that their blower and tune are safe but none of them have put their forced induction solution through anything NEAR as rigorous as ford's engine dyno stress testing. I want to see one of these companies simulate 150K miles of wear and tear and do the thermal shock testing that ford does on their engines.
I can't remember where I read it or who posted it but some rod manufacturing company claims that the stock rods let go at around 450 rwhp.
by the time my power train warranty is up, we'll know for sure how reliable the rods are. That's when I'll be making a decision on whether or not to keep the car and whether to go FI or not.
I know it's wishful thinking but if there were a factory option to add the forged manley rods into the car's build for say, an extra $1000, just imagine how many guys would be jumping all over that! those manelys cost ford $55 each. The stock rods they use instead only cost them $1.60.
You can see why the bean counters are happy but surely them making an extra $600+ (if this were a build option) per car would have to please SOMEONE! .. besides the owner of the car...
I can't remember where I read it or who posted it but some rod manufacturing company claims that the stock rods let go at around 450 rwhp.
by the time my power train warranty is up, we'll know for sure how reliable the rods are. That's when I'll be making a decision on whether or not to keep the car and whether to go FI or not.
I know it's wishful thinking but if there were a factory option to add the forged manley rods into the car's build for say, an extra $1000, just imagine how many guys would be jumping all over that! those manelys cost ford $55 each. The stock rods they use instead only cost them $1.60.
You can see why the bean counters are happy but surely them making an extra $600+ (if this were a build option) per car would have to please SOMEONE! .. besides the owner of the car...
I'd be weary of all kits pushing 600+hp without changing out some parts. But there's no doubt in my mind this engine is stout and was engineered w/ the aftermarket in mind.
1/25/11, 10:05 AM
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1/25/11, 10:28 AM
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The Coyote is not an engine designed specifically for boosted application. It's lightweight valvetrain and rotating assembly, as well as it's 11:0 compression ratio is designed to make power and torque without the need for forced induction.
To expect a factory engine to reliably withstand the added stresses of super or turbocharging is asking quite a bit more.
To expect a factory engine to reliably withstand the added stresses of super or turbocharging is asking quite a bit more.
This is what kind of surprised me about the 5.0 vs 4.6. The stock internals have them capped and about the same maximum limits.
Stock for stock the 5.0 is a big gain with an extra 100HP right out of the box. But due to its higher compression ratio, the maximum limits are near the same. Perhaps the 5.0 rods are slightly stronger, but not enough to get much beyond the 'safe' 500HP maximum that the 4.6 was typically stated to be. Maybe 525 or 550?
Anything much beyond that needs stronger internals on both engines to avoid catastrophic failures.
Last edited by cdynaco; 1/25/11 at 10:29 AM.
1/25/11, 12:56 PM
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1/25/11, 01:48 PM
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By next year I think you'll have a good idea of what is safe and what isnt. What people don't realize about the new 5.0 is that is much more sophisticated than just its physical parts. The pcm is much much better too. I think most people will be pleasantly surprised by how much power it can make on lower levels of boost as compared to the 4.6
1/25/11, 01:59 PM
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1/25/11, 03:34 PM
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The mustang world knows that there are numerous FI 5.0's out there. I think the big question is how long they will last? Yeah every tuner is claiming that their blower and tune are safe but none of them have put their forced induction solution through anything NEAR as rigorous as ford's engine dyno stress testing. I want to see one of these companies simulate 150K miles of wear and tear and do the thermal shock testing that ford does on their engines.
I can't remember where I read it or who posted it but some rod manufacturing company claims that the stock rods let go at around 450 rwhp.
by the time my power train warranty is up, we'll know for sure how reliable the rods are. That's when I'll be making a decision on whether or not to keep the car and whether to go FI or not.
I know it's wishful thinking but if there were a factory option to add the forged manley rods into the car's build for say, an extra $1000, just imagine how many guys would be jumping all over that! those manelys cost ford $55 each. The stock rods they use instead only cost them $1.60.
You can see why the bean counters are happy but surely them making an extra $600+ (if this were a build option) per car would have to please SOMEONE! .. besides the owner of the car...
I can't remember where I read it or who posted it but some rod manufacturing company claims that the stock rods let go at around 450 rwhp.
by the time my power train warranty is up, we'll know for sure how reliable the rods are. That's when I'll be making a decision on whether or not to keep the car and whether to go FI or not.
I know it's wishful thinking but if there were a factory option to add the forged manley rods into the car's build for say, an extra $1000, just imagine how many guys would be jumping all over that! those manelys cost ford $55 each. The stock rods they use instead only cost them $1.60.
You can see why the bean counters are happy but surely them making an extra $600+ (if this were a build option) per car would have to please SOMEONE! .. besides the owner of the car...
If someone is claiming the stock rods will go at 450rwhp, well, I guess all of the guys running long tubes, intake and tunes will need to start worrying, since they put down around 430-435rwhp. God forbid someone should add the new BOSS manifold into the mix, for they will surely cause their Coyote to explode into bits!
Be more realistic here. The Coyote's rods are not forged, no, but they aren't weak, either. The GT500 has been known to hold ridiculous amounts of power on the stock block, even though it does not have (in the traditional sense) forged rods, they are basically glorified powdered rods.
tl;dr Stop feeding people this nonsense
Agreed.
This is what kind of surprised me about the 5.0 vs 4.6. The stock internals have them capped and about the same maximum limits.
Stock for stock the 5.0 is a big gain with an extra 100HP right out of the box. But due to its higher compression ratio, the maximum limits are near the same. Perhaps the 5.0 rods are slightly stronger, but not enough to get much beyond the 'safe' 500HP maximum that the 4.6 was typically stated to be. Maybe 525 or 550?
Anything much beyond that needs stronger internals on both engines to avoid catastrophic failures.
This is what kind of surprised me about the 5.0 vs 4.6. The stock internals have them capped and about the same maximum limits.
Stock for stock the 5.0 is a big gain with an extra 100HP right out of the box. But due to its higher compression ratio, the maximum limits are near the same. Perhaps the 5.0 rods are slightly stronger, but not enough to get much beyond the 'safe' 500HP maximum that the 4.6 was typically stated to be. Maybe 525 or 550?
Anything much beyond that needs stronger internals on both engines to avoid catastrophic failures.
1/25/11, 04:02 PM
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Is it true that the stock connecting rods can't take it? Not even 5-6psi? Fi for shame!
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec.../photo_25.html
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec.../photo_25.html