lol, wat?

 

Riight.

 

I'd like to believe this, but with all the management changes at GM, the odd closing of profitable GM dealerships, the political deals made with the union, and the extra cash GM has received this year, I find it difficult not to believe that GM = Government Motors. What do I know; I'm just a taxpayer. By the way, I'm not saying that the government should not have helped out GM and Chrysler, it's just that with the beating GM shareholders took (what did they get percentage wise on the dollar), it appeared to be unconstitutional (whether anybody with standing actually saw it through to court or not - as they were threatened for sure), and I wish that it were done in a manner more in line with traditional bankruptcy proceedings throughout American history.

 

You two need to take it to the PM. I don't think anyone truly cares about your BS pissing contest anyways. You've strayed WTF off topic

 

We did, almost a day ago. Thanks for continuing it.

 

Try this GM lovers: http://jalopnik.com/5513303/your-gm-...e-and-kill-you

 

Ok, to keep it on topic this test shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It wasn't exactly rocket science that the Mustang was gonna be faster than the Camaro.The V6 is a nice car. However, if the choice is between a 2010 GT and a 2011 V6, it's a no brainer. GT all the way. More tourqe, huge aftermarket and low prices (especially in the next few months).

 

This thread was about the Mustang V6 versus the Camaro V6. The political debate was bad enough. Now you want to make this into a GT versus V6 debate? Just start a new thread please. I will know to ignore that one.

 

Lol, drink cool aid much? In 2010 he backed it up then. Now in 2011 Ford does what it should have done in 94 when the LT1 debuted, and in 98 when the LS1 debuted. It caught up and surpassed the Camaro in the performance arena (no sarcasm intended BTW). Congratulations, that's how I'd prefer it, but this isn't C5, don't get cocky and all holier than thou. GM is not going to pack up and leave camp over it. You'll see LS what soon enough. The LS is still plenty capable of dealing with the 5.0 in every respect without any modification to the engine. The Ls wasn't a game ender nor is this. Game on.



Back on topic looks like the stang pulled a solid twofer. Congrats. Wished GM offered a 1LE package like the 4thgens. Hell at this point a gear change would be nice vs a re-rate.

 

Really? What happened 2003 - 2009?

 

Hmm lets see in 93 all funding for all NA (North American) RWD platforms was dropped in favor of SUV's (hence the caprice poofing). Crash mandating made the then current Fbody unacceptable to mandate changes in 03. Since no more funding for RWD meant no more development for Camaro it couldn't pass that point (an ls2 Camaro would have rivaled not beat a termi stock for stock), which also scored a way to get out of the contract to pay the Trans Am association a fee for each TA copy (reason why the bird will never come back) and a way to get out of the St. Terese plant's contract that they tried to negotiate for years. All Fbodies had to be built there, and it needed too much money for tooling and plant upgrades. It was cheaper to bulldoze it, which they did and now builds Malibu's. The current platform is current for any near crash mandates, doesn't have to pay extra for a model, and has better contracts with the current plants. That is why it dissapeared. Not a Mustang rivalry. It made financial sense (except for dropping all RWD for trucks part), plain and simple.

 

I thought a gear change was the last thing GM would do ? I agree we can do without the cocky C5 comments.

The LS3 is an awesome engine and the heads will really move some air. I just don't expect any big changes for 2011. The V6 is probably a good indicator for what to expect.

If the 5.0 gets DI and other goodies in 2012 (450 HP?), the LS3 will need to make close to 500 HP to hang let alot beat the 5.0. I think GM will have to get into the engine a little more than a tune.

GM should have a new line of V8s coming down the pipe, the new 5.5L for the Corvette right?, and I expect a lot out of these new motors. I just don't expect a lot more out of the LS3 without some serious new tech.

I think we'll see something maybe in 2012. That's assuming GM has the time and resources to devote to a smaller market.

 

A gear change altogether, I'm sure is out as that would drop mpg (more important in the current marketing). An option like 1le with a gear change would allow a performance boost, while still being allowed to post the current mpg numbers yet test it vs the track pack Stang for bragging rights just like Ford has done. Track pack stangs aren't rated the same mpg and non track pack gt's don't run as hard just like the 3.31 TP V6. Best of both worlds better rated mpg base, better performing packages for the tests.

 

That's what I said the first time and you thought I was insane. I'm glad you understand now about the option gear ratios do not hurting CAFE stats. I was poking a little fun after our early conversion. The main point here was the LS3 and GM's options for 2011 and beyond.

 

From a a marketing standpoint, I'm not understanding why Chevrolet/GM would announce that the V6 Camaro had 312hp all along... especially after losing to the Mustang on the track.

 

They knew Mustang was coming out with new drivetrains and more than likely knew they were going to try to beat them in hp. So they probably had this planned all along to take some of the glory away from the Stang. Who knows it could be the same for the SS. Might come out and say its 430-435.

 

Ya, when I said that I was thinking you meant a standard swap rather than an option swap, it's all good ( I don't recall saying you were insane just that it didn't make as much sense :P). In which yes I agree. As far as engine options here's the skinny the way I see it knowing what I know about them. LS3's are a 10.7 CR, the 5.0 at 11.0. Jumping the LS3 to 11.0, which is as doable as anything and cheaper than new tech, would net around 15 hp (using the 1 point CR 10% HP increase method subtracted to .3) bumping to 441 on that alone. Adding tubular exhaust such as on the 5.0 and just as doable (or even using the LS7 exhaust when nets about 5-10 on an LS3) should add even more. Next all the LS engines tunes are set at 14:1 AFR or higher (my GTO's was 14.5 the Camaro was 14:2). Dropping that to a still very safe 13:1 (tune) would probably net another 10 hp (bringing it closer to the model 11:5 is close to 40). Then of course SLP's GM approved and warrantied (SLP 454 for example) CAI nets even more. That's not even taking into account a cam change wich is very conservative on a 117.5 LSA and lower lift numbers compared, to a LS6 cam. LS3 cam numbers 204/211 .551/.525 vs LS6 vs 204/218 .551/.547 on a 116 LSA meaning going to an LS6 cam would net some decent power and it's a cam that has been used before. All that without DI which is being hinted at from Oshwa goes to show that the LS3 is very conservative as far as it goes. Much more conservative than the 5.0's higher CR, (don't know about the tune until I see some AFR tables or LSA's to know how much cam is left), and shortie headers IMO. If I know this GM knows this. Matching the 5.0's spec sheet would result in substantial power increases. I can see 500 HP on a 11.0 CR, shortie headered, decently tuned, LS6 cammed LS3 easily maybe more with DI upping the CR more.

Again SLP makes variants sold through dealerships, under dealer warranties that make 327 for the V6 (axleback, blackwing CAI both were stock on WS6's and SS's if ordered, and a safe bottle tune), 427 for the L99 (with the same plus underdrive pulley), and 454 for the LS3. All but the underdrive pulley I can se very easily making it stock just like WS6's and SS's. That would put even track pack GT's back neck and neck. Reguardless what times mags got out of the cars the trap speeds indicate no more than .2 difference in the two 20 hp would even that out which is one or two of the things I listed alone all while netting better MPG than it currently gets.

The V6 is more bottled than the LS3 for sure. With DI (the only technical benefit I see from it is being able to go higher on CR) it's tune is much closer to the mark than the LS3. They would have to increase displacement to get much more out of it. 3.7 to 3.7 rather than 3.5 would make the disparity go down and keep it from being a warranty liability.

As far as the 5.5 I hope they do not do this. The Camaro is heavy enough without adding the weight of multiple cammed engines. The engine is not the setback the weight is and that issue won't be resolved until 2014 more than likely

 

Because less buyers will know about that. Those of us that read that are the minority of car buyers. Base numbers sell as do selling points "Most HP in class" never "Fastest in class". The same exact reason the Camaro will never be advertised as high as the vette even though the Vette would beat the brakes off the Camaro in everything with even if it only had 400 hp to the Camaro's 426. The same reason GM changed the LS3 numbers to 426 after the chally debuted with 425 HP. 422 wasn't segment leading so they upped it to 426. Sales ponts sell cars not performance in this segment especially.

 

While they're at it, do you think that they'll make the decision to scrap the current Camaro look and replace it with something that actually looks like a Camaro?

 

The Coyote will not receive DI in 2012. There will, however, be a new variation of that engine... Beep Beep. So, no, Ford isn't waiting around, resting on its laurels, either.