Anyone else have distortion in their windshield?
6/14/13, 12:52 PM
#21
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So far, so good on getting this resolved. Once the tech saw it (its a little hard to pick up until either you move your head or something outside the car moves), he showed several other techs, and they agreed it was worse than the normal amounts of distortion they sometimes see in windshields.
He took some pictures and sent them in to Ford for pre-approval, and Deysha was kind enough to bring the issue to the attention of regional service (thanks Deysha, I got a call yesterday from someone in customer service- will be returnign the call today).
Yesterday, my tech asked me to return (he forgot to take a picture of the Carlite logo on the glass, which is apparently required to obtain authorization). He said he is "pretty sure" the replacement will be authorized, because he said they "accepted the complaint on the waves-" they just need a pic of the logo to ensure it is indeed a factory part.
From here, I'm supposed to get a call today to officially let me know they will be replacing the windshield and to schedule when/where it will be replaced (sounds like they outsource windshield work).
At this point, I'm impressed with the customer service. Another passenger expressed unaided awareness of the waves yesterday (sorry, been in market research the past couple of weeks
), so hopefully I'm not being too **** about this!
He took some pictures and sent them in to Ford for pre-approval, and Deysha was kind enough to bring the issue to the attention of regional service (thanks Deysha, I got a call yesterday from someone in customer service- will be returnign the call today).
Yesterday, my tech asked me to return (he forgot to take a picture of the Carlite logo on the glass, which is apparently required to obtain authorization). He said he is "pretty sure" the replacement will be authorized, because he said they "accepted the complaint on the waves-" they just need a pic of the logo to ensure it is indeed a factory part.
From here, I'm supposed to get a call today to officially let me know they will be replacing the windshield and to schedule when/where it will be replaced (sounds like they outsource windshield work).
At this point, I'm impressed with the customer service. Another passenger expressed unaided awareness of the waves yesterday (sorry, been in market research the past couple of weeks
), so hopefully I'm not being too **** about this!Deysha
6/14/13, 01:27 PM
#22
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Unaided awareness = dude, what's up with your windshield?
In market research, "unaided awareness" means the consumer can name your product (or its attributes) with no prompting. It means you have a really strong brand. Coke is considered to be the strongest brand in the world, because it has the highest unaided awareness of any brand in any category on a worldwide scale (ask anyone from almost anywhere to name a carbonated beverage, and Coke is in the top 3- in fact, ask a consumer to name ANY brand and Coke usually is near the top of the list).
Anyway, when I have a new passenger in the car, I do not mention the windshield (thus avoiding "biasing"). Sure enough, most of them will eventually mention the "funky windshield." I'll have to try and snap a picture, but it looks like a plowed field- little ripples running vertically (almost causes portions of the image to look like it has blotchy shadows, and straight lines will waver when the car is in motion).
I received a call today from my service tech- Ford has agreed to replace the window, and someone from their glass vendor will contact me to arrange installation. I'm really glad they are taking care of this- I would have seriously considered replacing it on my own dime if they said the waves weren't serious enough to warrant replacement (but now I can put that money towards the FRPP Procal Package)!
In market research, "unaided awareness" means the consumer can name your product (or its attributes) with no prompting. It means you have a really strong brand. Coke is considered to be the strongest brand in the world, because it has the highest unaided awareness of any brand in any category on a worldwide scale (ask anyone from almost anywhere to name a carbonated beverage, and Coke is in the top 3- in fact, ask a consumer to name ANY brand and Coke usually is near the top of the list).
Anyway, when I have a new passenger in the car, I do not mention the windshield (thus avoiding "biasing"). Sure enough, most of them will eventually mention the "funky windshield." I'll have to try and snap a picture, but it looks like a plowed field- little ripples running vertically (almost causes portions of the image to look like it has blotchy shadows, and straight lines will waver when the car is in motion).
I received a call today from my service tech- Ford has agreed to replace the window, and someone from their glass vendor will contact me to arrange installation. I'm really glad they are taking care of this- I would have seriously considered replacing it on my own dime if they said the waves weren't serious enough to warrant replacement (but now I can put that money towards the FRPP Procal Package
)!
6/14/13, 02:10 PM
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Thanks for the explanation...sorry that I left a smiley off of my response.
It is great that Ford is doing you right with this one. I hope the issue is uncommon.
Here is an optics question regarding the windshield flaws. Are the ripples more or less visible if you're wearing polarized sunglasses? I wear them often and flaws in all types of glass stand out horribly with them on. You can see stress points where glass has been tempered unevenly and other irregularities easily through polarized light.
It is great that Ford is doing you right with this one. I hope the issue is uncommon.
Here is an optics question regarding the windshield flaws. Are the ripples more or less visible if you're wearing polarized sunglasses? I wear them often and flaws in all types of glass stand out horribly with them on. You can see stress points where glass has been tempered unevenly and other irregularities easily through polarized light.
6/14/13, 02:32 PM
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Here is an optics question regarding the windshield flaws. Are the ripples more or less visible if you're wearing polarized sunglasses?
Warning- I direct technical marketing for Essilor Intl (world's largest manufacturer of ophthalmic lenses)- so I totally geek out over questions like this!
Actually, if you see "dots" or "patterns" in a windshield when wearing polarized sunlenses, you are not seeing distortion. You are seeing internal stress (usually caused by tempering- but sometimes caused by the mounting of the glass). If you see rows of "dots" on the glass (usually seen on rear windows- which do not usually have the laminate) you are seeing heat tempering patterns. If you see purple all over the rear window (usually seen on Mercedes, etc.), you are usually seeing a chemical tempering process.
Glass has internal stress because it is a thermoplastic (that is, it starts in a solid form- silica, et al, and can be remelted). Most eyeglass lens materials are thermalcure, btw (they start life as a liquid and will never melt again once set into shape... try it, your lens will burst into flame but it will never melt... unless it is made of polycarbonate which is also a thermalplastic). One property of thermoplastics is they form stress patterns when they are cast into a shape. Tempering is done by raising the temperature almost to melting- then slowly cooling the glass to "organize" the internal stress.
Unfortunately, another property of thermoplastics is birefringence (the molecule has a different index of refraction along one axis than it does along another). This causes the glass to refract light differently from different angles (and this is probably what is causing the distortion in my windshield). Birefringence is a byproduct of tempering- and since polarized lenses only let light through at one axis (which is why they are so good at blocking horizontal glare) they allow you to see the birefringent patterns in the glass. Most FRONT glass will not have these patterns, because the front glass relies on a vinyl sheet that is sandwiched into the glass to hold it together when it is smashed. In my windshield, the heat of the glass was probably not controlled well, with a result that the stress ended up being unorganized, leading to ripples across the surface.
Sorry (I know, I know... no one cares about this stuff)!
Warning- I direct technical marketing for Essilor Intl (world's largest manufacturer of ophthalmic lenses)- so I totally geek out over questions like this!
Actually, if you see "dots" or "patterns" in a windshield when wearing polarized sunlenses, you are not seeing distortion. You are seeing internal stress (usually caused by tempering- but sometimes caused by the mounting of the glass). If you see rows of "dots" on the glass (usually seen on rear windows- which do not usually have the laminate) you are seeing heat tempering patterns. If you see purple all over the rear window (usually seen on Mercedes, etc.), you are usually seeing a chemical tempering process.
Glass has internal stress because it is a thermoplastic (that is, it starts in a solid form- silica, et al, and can be remelted). Most eyeglass lens materials are thermalcure, btw (they start life as a liquid and will never melt again once set into shape... try it, your lens will burst into flame but it will never melt... unless it is made of polycarbonate which is also a thermalplastic). One property of thermoplastics is they form stress patterns when they are cast into a shape. Tempering is done by raising the temperature almost to melting- then slowly cooling the glass to "organize" the internal stress.
Unfortunately, another property of thermoplastics is birefringence (the molecule has a different index of refraction along one axis than it does along another). This causes the glass to refract light differently from different angles (and this is probably what is causing the distortion in my windshield). Birefringence is a byproduct of tempering- and since polarized lenses only let light through at one axis (which is why they are so good at blocking horizontal glare) they allow you to see the birefringent patterns in the glass. Most FRONT glass will not have these patterns, because the front glass relies on a vinyl sheet that is sandwiched into the glass to hold it together when it is smashed. In my windshield, the heat of the glass was probably not controlled well, with a result that the stress ended up being unorganized, leading to ripples across the surface.
Sorry (I know, I know... no one cares about this stuff)!
Last edited by Varilux; 6/14/13 at 02:33 PM.
6/14/13, 08:01 PM
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^ I'm interested in stuff like this. (I have a few pairs of Essilor lenses too.) I can see those patterns (large "dots") in my rear window when wearing polarized sunglasses (Nikon...sorry!). There is no visible distortion in any of my windows though ('13).
6/15/13, 07:42 AM
#26
Varilux- great explanation.
I've worn glasses most of my life. With the new UV-protected car glass these days, I've stopped getting polarized glasses because I see spots or patterns on most windows now. I get the Transitions lenses with anti-glare. Expensive, but worth it for me. /hijack
I've worn glasses most of my life. With the new UV-protected car glass these days, I've stopped getting polarized glasses because I see spots or patterns on most windows now. I get the Transitions lenses with anti-glare. Expensive, but worth it for me. /hijack
6/15/13, 10:47 AM
#27
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Sorry for the commercial!
(Nikon...sorry!)
No worries- although Essilor and Nikon haven't quite merged (yet), we have a lot of joint ventures- including R&D. In the US, Nikon lenses are distributed by Essilor (so as a stockholder, I'm happy to meet a Nikon wearer).
I get the Transitions lenses with anti-glare.
Essilor owns 49% of Transitions Optical (other 51% is PPG). If your lenses have a faint green residual reflection, you are wearing Crizal Avance anti-reflective (if its blue, its probably Crizal Sapphire).
Transitions makes a product called Drivewear, which are specifically designed to provide better vision while driving- might want to ask your optician to see a demo next time you order eyewear.
Other than noticing the tempering pattern in automotive glass, polarized sunlenses really are great for driving. First, they remove the glare you get from your dashboard, hood, and any reflections on your own windshield (or that of other cars- kinda freaky when you go by a State Trooper, because you can see right through his windshield to see him giving you the hairy eyeball). They also remove the glare from wet roads, and in clinical studies, drivers wearing polarized lenses react about .33 sec quicker than those wearing non-polarized sunlenses (which allows you to stop 23' sooner if you are going 50mph).
The only other negative for polarized lenses is if you have a heads up display (HUDs reflect off the windshield- and you won't see the reflection with polarized lenses). Also, you may notice certain screens in cars and on gas pumps "black out" when you wear polarized lenses (this is because they are polarized at 90 degrees- just tilt your head to the side and you'll be able to read the display).
Commercial over! Here's to great vision while driving!
(Um, just don't drive right after celebrating great vision while driving .)
(Nikon...sorry!)
No worries- although Essilor and Nikon haven't quite merged (yet), we have a lot of joint ventures- including R&D. In the US, Nikon lenses are distributed by Essilor (so as a stockholder, I'm happy to meet a Nikon wearer
).I get the Transitions lenses with anti-glare.
Essilor owns 49% of Transitions Optical (other 51% is PPG). If your lenses have a faint green residual reflection, you are wearing Crizal Avance anti-reflective (if its blue, its probably Crizal Sapphire).
Transitions makes a product called Drivewear, which are specifically designed to provide better vision while driving- might want to ask your optician to see a demo next time you order eyewear.
Other than noticing the tempering pattern in automotive glass, polarized sunlenses really are great for driving. First, they remove the glare you get from your dashboard, hood, and any reflections on your own windshield (or that of other cars- kinda freaky when you go by a State Trooper, because you can see right through his windshield to see him giving you the hairy eyeball). They also remove the glare from wet roads, and in clinical studies, drivers wearing polarized lenses react about .33 sec quicker than those wearing non-polarized sunlenses (which allows you to stop 23' sooner if you are going 50mph).
The only other negative for polarized lenses is if you have a heads up display (HUDs reflect off the windshield- and you won't see the reflection with polarized lenses). Also, you may notice certain screens in cars and on gas pumps "black out" when you wear polarized lenses (this is because they are polarized at 90 degrees- just tilt your head to the side and you'll be able to read the display).
Commercial over! Here's to great vision while driving!
(Um, just don't drive right after celebrating great vision while driving .)
6/15/13, 08:25 PM
#28
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As far as the glass is concerned I've only noticed the normal manufacturing type stuff Varilux mentions when conditions are just right when I am outside the car. I've noticed this on my other cars so I know it's normal. But the one thing that is annoying is there's a considerable reflection of the interior on the windshield much more of the time than I am used to. Either it is due to the glass roof letting in more light or there was a design compromise made somewhere. It's certainly not any sort of defect but some kind of trade off made in development. Maybe I'll close the shade next time and see if it goes away.
As to ripples and distortions I haven't noticed anything.
Varilux, don't worry about it, such stuff improves the discussions as far as I am concerned. Years ago I had to deal with lenses over displays on electronics. Had to get the supplier to mold them without the residual stresses or people wearing polarized sunglasses wouldn't be able to read the display. Thus I know what you're talking about but from a plastics/injection molding POV.
As to ripples and distortions I haven't noticed anything.
Varilux, don't worry about it, such stuff improves the discussions as far as I am concerned. Years ago I had to deal with lenses over displays on electronics. Had to get the supplier to mold them without the residual stresses or people wearing polarized sunglasses wouldn't be able to read the display. Thus I know what you're talking about but from a plastics/injection molding POV.
6/16/13, 10:21 AM
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^ There was quite a lot of talk about the internal reflections on the windshield a while ago. Specifically as to at night and choosing the least annoying MyColor option, but it is a bit noticeable in the daytime too. I wonder if it's some coating on the glass? It is quite hard to block without getting into some weird shield/hood over the gauges. I don't have a glass roof, so that's not the main cause.
I have a 20+ year old Ford too, and it has those stress spots in the rear window, only visible with polarized lenses. I didn't know what it was after all these years until Varilux mentioned it. As for my '13, they're only visible with polarized lenses when I turn around to back up. Most of the time I'm looking out the rear window via the rear-view mirror, so I don't see them then, I have to look directly. I do notice the window over the basic "stereo" display requires tilting my head a bit to read with the sunglasses, but at least it's readable (some aren't).
I have a 20+ year old Ford too, and it has those stress spots in the rear window, only visible with polarized lenses. I didn't know what it was after all these years until Varilux mentioned it. As for my '13, they're only visible with polarized lenses when I turn around to back up. Most of the time I'm looking out the rear window via the rear-view mirror, so I don't see them then, I have to look directly. I do notice the window over the basic "stereo" display requires tilting my head a bit to read with the sunglasses, but at least it's readable (some aren't).
Last edited by cfraser; 6/16/13 at 10:25 AM.
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