The 2011 Mustang has seemed to really leave its pony car heritage in the dust. It is more of a luxury coupe competing against BMW, Audi ect. The only part of the heritage left is the SRA. Is it really competing against the Camaro and Challenger? This has seemed to develop into a luxury coupe. With its upgraded interior material, modern body style, quieter cabin with sound tube and even an engine that resembles a european dressed one. Will the rawness and joy of driving the '11 be the same as the past or will it feel like driving a BMW or any other comparable coupe?
Thoughts on this?

 

I'm sure the '11 will still feel pretty raw compared to "rivals" from BMW, Audi or Nissan.

And that's how it should be. I've no problem with the improved interior quality......lets face it, whilst the '05-'09 isn't bad, there was always room for improvement. The induction tube is a nice touch, but I'd alway go the aftermarket route for a decent sound.

Slap on some 20" rims, lower it, add a decent exhaust and it'll help the Mustang remain the wild pony it is, rather than the BMW-like thoroughbred.

For me, the Mustang, Camaro and Challenger are in a field of their own.

 

It's good that it's getting refined, they need to keep that ride nice n stiff though and the rumble!

 

The refinement is a sign of the times... While on paper BMW and Audi may seem like rivals, but they are a totally different persona. Kinda like a Corvette is to a Ferrari or Porsche.

My personal choice will always be one of the big 3's pony cars as long as they stay true to the formula...

• Rear Wheel Drive
• V8
• Affordable

 

Don't know about you guys, but the hard plastics, crappy quality shifter boot, and squeaks/rattles don't contribute to the sense of "rawness and joy" in my 07 GT. Don't get me wrong, I still love the car, but little things like that bug me from time to time.

 

Perhaps, rather, the Mustang is returning to its pony car roots after a long muscle car foray. Remember that the original Mustang was somewhat of a rebuttal against the powerful but cloddish "muscle cars" of its day, what with tasteful good looks, relatively compact size, a refined and stylish interior, an emphasis on overall performance balance with its smallish 260/289 all at a good value and affordability.

The Mustang and the pony car image started off as a stylish, refined, well balanced good performer and really wasn't until they started stuffing powerful but heavy big blocks in the gen 2 Stang in '67 that it started really devolving, in part, into a muscle car, forfeiting some of its distinguishing pony car traits in the process. The Mustang since then has been all around the map in terms of identity, often inhabiting several personae at once, from insipid 4-6 banger secretary's special, small block pony car/road racer (Shelby 350, Boss 302), big block blunderbuss (428 Mach I, Boss 429) and various other flavors too (SVO, SVT, etc.). Perhaps it is this very flexibility that has allowed the Mustang to remain so competitive for so long and to pigeon hole it into just one category -- crude muscle car for example -- would be a mistake in both heritage and for its future viability.

Simple crudeness or other lack of capability, competence or refinement should not be what identifies the Mustang as a pony car as that is ends up being a rather perverse and detrimental identity -- should we also be putting back leaf springs, drum brakes and skinny bias ply tires lest it starts handling above its station? How about flat vinyl seats and tacky trim to keep it from getting too fancy for itself? "Rawness" should not be conflated with driving enjoyment -- my daddies '71 Ford pickup was as raw as it gets but certainly no joy to drive -- but rather, proper control feedback and communication. Is the contention that the Mustang is no longer a pony car because it doesn't suck enough in enough areas? Should the Mustang's capabilities somehow be constrained because it is getting too close to an M3's overall performance excellence (for half the price)?

Rather, keep it true to its pony car heritage by offering great overall balanced performance, sleek and refined good looks, great features and comfort all at an affordable price, just like the original pony car, the Mustang. I think the '11 should be complemented for keeping the pony car fresh, modern and competitive nearly a half century after its intro and not as some throwback retro-relic identified more by what it does badly than what it does well. That the Mustang is becoming so capable on so many fronts, getting remarkably close to becoming a working man's M3, one of the world's paragons of driving and performance excellence, is reason to cheer, not despair.

 

I could not disagree more. Since when was poor interior quality part of the definition of a pony car? Long nose, short tail, 302 cubic inches of V8 greatness under the hood, 2+2 seating. That is what makes a car a pony car. Adding a nice interior and increasing quality to world class levels does nothing but increase the status of this car. Wake up! The good old days are RIGHT NOW. The guys that don't snap these cars up will be at Mecum in 40 years kicking themselves.

 

The market demanded a number of the things that "luxurized" this iteration. You can even find numerous posts about those things here.

The Mustang heritage to me is still encapsulated in the following styling cues -
1) the fastback roofline
2) the front grille
3) long hood, shorter deck
4) dual pod dash
5) tri-bar tailights
6) the "hips"

The configuration (front-engine, RWD, manual/auto trans, SRA) also say "Mustang".

Having driven BMW 3 series, Infiniti G coupe, Nissan 350Z, and C5 and C6 Corvettes, I can easily say the 2010 Mustang GT is closer in terms of steering feel and suspension compliance (except over the rough bumps while turning) than previous iterations.

The price of a fully loaded GT, while approaching the BMW 1 and 3 series and Audi TT coupes, is still not quite in the range of "luxury coupe". However, it is getting there though.

Be careful of what you ask for - you might have to pay for it!

 

Let's keep this in perspective. In a few months, you be able to go to your local Ford dealer and get a 305hp mustang with a six speed transmission for around $20k. It is still one hell of a deal.

 

Let's please compare apples to apples here. You can't say a fully loaded Mustang is getting close to a base _________. That's like saying a modified ________ is faster than a stock ________.

A "fully loaded" 335i coupe can pretty easily pass $55k. A fully loaded 135i coupe can pretty easily get to $47k. A fully loaded TTs coupe is $53.5k. I would not consider any one of these anywhere near the price of a fully loaded Mustang coupe which I can barely get to $40k [I]with[I] the glass roof. And none of the listed competition comes with 412hp.

And, I would LOVE to pay the rumored-to-have-cost $100 for an IRS :P

I am ecstatic Ford has made the Mustang a nice car first, and a fast car second. I have had enough of them through the years to appreciate the improved interior and overall quality. It is worth every penny (if not more). Power is cheap and easy to add. Quality and a nice interior is not (just ask the Chevy crowd).

 

Thank you for bringing that up. Everyone around here is so obsessed with the GT, that everyone forgets the V6 has near-current year hp for close to $20k. Last year if you said you could get a GT for $20k but loose a little torque, everyone would be applauding Ford. This year, because it is a V6, it is not even considered a "real" Mustang.

I still contend the '11 GT is a much better car than the venerated SN95 Cobra which cost roughly $7k more when new IIRC. To me, that shows how much cheaper the Mustang is getting (while also becoming a much better all-around car with the increased quality, interior and options).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rampant

Thank you for bringing that up. Everyone around here is so obsessed with the GT, that everyone forgets the V6 has near-current year hp for close to $20k. Last year if you said you could get a GT for $20k but loose a little torque, everyone would be applauding Ford. This year, because it is a V6, it is not even considered a "real" Mustang.

Excellent posts! Good topic as well

 

I, too, would pay an extra $100 for IRS, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen -- not during this generation, at least. Having driven a 2010 GT (non-Track Pack, mind you), I can tell you that you'll never notice unless, like you said, you drive over bumpy pavement. If you live in an area where the roads are absolute crap (cough, Chicago, cough, Detroit, cough Buffalo...), then, believe me, a Watts Linkage will provide a significant improvement in handling and ride quality, especially going over rough pavement while turning! I wish Ford would offer one from the factory, since they're not currently offering an IRS. Oh, well, that's what the aftermarket is for, I guess.

 

Sorry but it's not a luxury coupe. I'd still take a 335i over my GT. If I hadn't won the AMEX promotion I'd be driving a slightly used BMW 335i.

 

Sure you can say that, and many people do!

Of course! Options change the picture dramatically. The point of my post was that on a pure dollar figure standpoint, the numbers start to overlap. And I do often hear people make comments like "30K for a Mustang?" or "$46K for a Mustang". These folks, of course, aren't looking at the value equation as closely as Mustang fanatics do.

Yes, that would have been a heck of a deal. Goes to show you what one person in a management position can do on a product content decision when not looking at the market far enough. Of course, we will never know for sure, but I suspect some of the arguments made for it were made on the basis of what was known at the time. The IRS Camaro was unknown, and perhaps some of the internal fights had the "needs SRA only for drag racers" vs. "needs IRS for a better ride and handling in corners" people duking it out. Need to track some people down who were close to that decision and get an "off-the-record" story from them.

Indeed - I am definitely not complaining about how the transformation has taken place. It makes sense to me that the first iteration of the S197 would have the money allocated for a new chassis, new manufacturing facility and processes, a reasonable engine line-up, and a style that brought even more attention to the Mustang. This refreshening is great - the fit and finish, NVH improvements, interior quality, and restyle are right on the money. I am enjoying my 2010 even more than my recently traded 2007.

 

There are 2 things I wish the Mustang had to really be the BMW killer it could be...

1. The plastic door panels, not the inserts need to be replaced by a soft feel material..the Fusion has them.
2. An IRS...

These 2 things get rectified and in my eyes it would be game over..I wouldn't even consider the BMW anymore.

However, the BMW even in its 328i form is an extremely capable automobile. It runs 0-60 in 5.9 sec with only 230hp and the handling is just phenominal if you get the sport package...heck even the non sport package handles so well. A 335i runs mid to high 4's 0-60 and mid to low 13's in the 1/4 mile, and a few select inexpensive mods and you have a car that will run mid to high 12's. My lease on my 328i is up in June and it would be perfect timing to either get a 335i or the new Stang providing I can get out of the Porsche as well. Right now I am leaning toward the Stang.
The Mustang rectifies the two items I mentioned (I believe they will be rectified) as Ford has finally realized that almost good enough isn't good enough anymore and it wouldn't even be close anymore in my eyes.

If I get a 2011 Stang I would have the door panels covered in some sort of soft feel covering as the plastic, easy to scratch with your finger nail door panel is a joke. They put these nice inserts but the rest of the door panel is just carry over 2005+.

I have had cars that are over $40-50k now for the last 10 years....I don't want to spend this kind of money anymore (can't afford it) and the Mustang is really shaping up to fit the bill. The door panels can be rectified by a good upholstery shop, the IRS on the other hand...

I know this has been beaten to death, but I drove a 2008 GT500 with Tokico D spec shocks along with FRPP springs and such and the way the car skipped over uneven payment really brought me back to the days of my 98 SVT. On a smooth race track it wouldn't be an issue....the crappy roads here in S. California are a different story (State has no money to fix these roads), the car just hops over the bumps..I have to admit it is definitely better than my previous Mustangs but you can only do so much with the SRA and Ford has taken it to the max.

I have been on both sides of the fence owning both BMW's, Porsche and a stable full of Mustangs so I have been there and done that.

 

I'm going to disagree here. The new Mustang does represent a noticeable disconnect from the Mustangs of recent history including the SN95 and Fox models, but that doesn't mean it isn't a ponycar. In fact, I think the current Mustang is a more faithful homage to the character of the 65-68 models that best define the breed historically than anything built since, and I think that is why the car seems to be changing so much. Mustang isn't leaving it's ponycar roots, it's returning to them.

 

You are crazy if you think the '11 Mustang is a luxury coupe or competes directly with them for market.

 

You are right. We as the customers have requested improvements, conforts, and present day technology. The advantage is the Mustang can be raw or have all the bells and whitles.

 

Great summary of what I would have said, Im in shock from what the Mustang Prices have come to.
In 07 I ordered a GT/CS with 3.55 gears and as you know it has a upgraded interior including heated seats. It was 30 grand then 27k with my A plan..
Now if you want a loaded GT that has just SOME of the items the GT/CS had, You are looking at almost 38k..
So Ford is really really killing itself by boosting these prices soo high . 8 grand in 3 years wayyy too much Ford WTF?