So Long SVT
3/5/06, 06:35 PM
#61
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At least SVT had a great run. Without the '98 (love at first sight) and '99 (meanest looking car I had ever seen) Cobras, I never would have fallen in love with Mustangs (at least in the way I did).
3/7/06, 07:59 PM
#62
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Guys/Gals,
Get a grip. Ford is in dire straights. They've announced layoffs for 30K line workers and thousands of engineers. Numerous plants are being closed and programs have been cancelled. It should not come as a surprise that this has implications on SVT. I just don't think they have the capacity to support more SVT programs given the recent cuts.
All of you guys blaming HTT and pining for Coletti should remember that SVT had no products in the market place during John's watch. Ford is a big company with lots of politics. Coletti, Stalone, Rambo can't just fight to make things happen. Do you think John retired on his own accord? Did Chris Theodore retire so he can resurface 2 years later at ASC? Did Phil Martens leave voluntarily to run a plastics trim company? Did Lyons just retire as Group VP so he can pursue his life long dream of running his own Ford dealership?
The reality is that there's a new guy running Ford North America. I don't know where he stands on SVT but he's decided that other priorities are more pressing. I doubt that HTT would engineer the demise of SVT. The more likely scenario is that he was unable to convince Ford management that performance products is a priority given Ford's emphasis on hybrids and other "green" initiatives.
Get a grip. Ford is in dire straights. They've announced layoffs for 30K line workers and thousands of engineers. Numerous plants are being closed and programs have been cancelled. It should not come as a surprise that this has implications on SVT. I just don't think they have the capacity to support more SVT programs given the recent cuts.
All of you guys blaming HTT and pining for Coletti should remember that SVT had no products in the market place during John's watch. Ford is a big company with lots of politics. Coletti, Stalone, Rambo can't just fight to make things happen. Do you think John retired on his own accord? Did Chris Theodore retire so he can resurface 2 years later at ASC? Did Phil Martens leave voluntarily to run a plastics trim company? Did Lyons just retire as Group VP so he can pursue his life long dream of running his own Ford dealership?
The reality is that there's a new guy running Ford North America. I don't know where he stands on SVT but he's decided that other priorities are more pressing. I doubt that HTT would engineer the demise of SVT. The more likely scenario is that he was unable to convince Ford management that performance products is a priority given Ford's emphasis on hybrids and other "green" initiatives.
3/8/06, 07:27 AM
#63
I Have No Life
Again as stated... its not the end.
its the consolidation of resources and chopping the fat off.
This is stated its NOT the end of performance oriented things at ford.
What DOES suck is that you have built 10 years on brand identity, that will no longer be around.
We will all know the differences between products, because we are educated and follow the flow of what happens.
But other people are not the same.
How many times has someone asked you if your car still has the 5-0 which hasn't been in a mustang for 10 years?
SVT has always been associated with the 'top of the line'
If that brand identity is gone... and its that much harder to differentiate between people what is what.
Mustang GT, Mustang Mach1, Mustang Cobra
WE know where they stand... but regular joes are looking for those 3 magic letters that they associated with what SVT stood for....
Performance, Price, Excusivity...
its the consolidation of resources and chopping the fat off.
This is stated its NOT the end of performance oriented things at ford.
What DOES suck is that you have built 10 years on brand identity, that will no longer be around.
We will all know the differences between products, because we are educated and follow the flow of what happens.
But other people are not the same.
How many times has someone asked you if your car still has the 5-0 which hasn't been in a mustang for 10 years?
SVT has always been associated with the 'top of the line'
If that brand identity is gone... and its that much harder to differentiate between people what is what.
Mustang GT, Mustang Mach1, Mustang Cobra
WE know where they stand... but regular joes are looking for those 3 magic letters that they associated with what SVT stood for....
Performance, Price, Excusivity...
3/8/06, 11:10 PM
#64
AKA 1 BULLITT------------ Legacy TMS Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boomer @ March 8, 2006, 9:30 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Again as stated... its not the end...
... This is stated its NOT the end of performance oriented things at ford...
[/b][/quote]
But the emphasis is.
It took a long time for people to really know what a Ford Racing's Mustang FR500 was. The fact is most people didn't care either or bought their upgrades.
Time will tell. It did not take that long for SVT to establish itself and become a favorite among the Mustang or F150 crowd. SVT represented the complete package and prestige. FRPP has been just another after market company competing for business.
You might also like to consider how the Mustang SEs and the Terminator Cobra affected tuners such as Roush, Saleen and Steeda in the last 5 years. Dealers either stopped carrying or reduced their modified cars' inventory because the preferance was for Ford's products influenced by SVT or SVT's straight out of the box products.
Again as stated... its not the end...
... This is stated its NOT the end of performance oriented things at ford...
[/b][/quote]
But the emphasis is.
It took a long time for people to really know what a Ford Racing's Mustang FR500 was. The fact is most people didn't care either or bought their upgrades.
Time will tell. It did not take that long for SVT to establish itself and become a favorite among the Mustang or F150 crowd. SVT represented the complete package and prestige. FRPP has been just another after market company competing for business.
You might also like to consider how the Mustang SEs and the Terminator Cobra affected tuners such as Roush, Saleen and Steeda in the last 5 years. Dealers either stopped carrying or reduced their modified cars' inventory because the preferance was for Ford's products influenced by SVT or SVT's straight out of the box products.
3/9/06, 07:44 AM
#65
I Have No Life
I agree....
And really.. people didn't have to know what the car or vehicle was...
If it was an SVT...it was TOP DOG in that vehicle..
You knew it performed, you knew it was exclusive, and you knew it was a GREAT value compared to say the Saleen.
It's amazing what 3 small letters on the back of the car can represent.
It's like the INTEL inside of Fords....
It's too bad that even if ford does tear it down and merge whats left into FRT, that they wouldn't keep SVT as a staple on that vehicle.
Brand Identity is SO important.
I would rather they keep the SVT line... even if it means every dealership can have access to those vehicles, and the engineers are part of FRT and such.
They need that top dog association.
Like GM with their SS line (even though most of them suck...) you know that the SS is the top of the line model.
You know the SRT is the top dog of all DC vehicles.
I'd hate to see Ford start with something new like FRT models... keep the SVT...its what people know.
Even if a bunch of performance area of Ford are consolidated.
or would people rather have it, that SVT isn't used at all, if it doesn't fall where it used to be. Engineered/Marketted the way it was, that is no longer the model?
And really.. people didn't have to know what the car or vehicle was...
If it was an SVT...it was TOP DOG in that vehicle..
You knew it performed, you knew it was exclusive, and you knew it was a GREAT value compared to say the Saleen.
It's amazing what 3 small letters on the back of the car can represent.
It's like the INTEL inside of Fords....
It's too bad that even if ford does tear it down and merge whats left into FRT, that they wouldn't keep SVT as a staple on that vehicle.
Brand Identity is SO important.
I would rather they keep the SVT line... even if it means every dealership can have access to those vehicles, and the engineers are part of FRT and such.
They need that top dog association.
Like GM with their SS line (even though most of them suck...) you know that the SS is the top of the line model.
You know the SRT is the top dog of all DC vehicles.
I'd hate to see Ford start with something new like FRT models... keep the SVT...its what people know.
Even if a bunch of performance area of Ford are consolidated.
or would people rather have it, that SVT isn't used at all, if it doesn't fall where it used to be. Engineered/Marketted the way it was, that is no longer the model?
3/9/06, 09:25 AM
#67
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SVTJayC @ March 9, 2006, 9:34 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
FRT??? Yeah that marketting campaign would go over well. Sound that one out for me.
Might as well release the 6000 S-U-X.
[/b][/quote]
Maybe they want to be like Toyota's TRD [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
FRT??? Yeah that marketting campaign would go over well. Sound that one out for me.
Might as well release the 6000 S-U-X.
[/b][/quote]
Maybe they want to be like Toyota's TRD [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
3/9/06, 02:36 PM
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Moderators, Admin-
I know what you all are trying to say, BUT with all due respect, who are the people going to believe, 3 people who run a mustang site or the rest of the internet world? I understand what you guys are trying to say but the bulk of it is, the best thing for ever had...is gone...gone....GONE!!
I know what you all are trying to say, BUT with all due respect, who are the people going to believe, 3 people who run a mustang site or the rest of the internet world? I understand what you guys are trying to say but the bulk of it is, the best thing for ever had...is gone...gone....GONE!!
3/9/06, 03:32 PM
#71
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fordracing200 @ March 4, 2006, 9:26 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I disagree, i think svt will be gone forever, never ever to be known again as svt and never ever led by a great like John Colletti, also HTT didn't fight for svt, so he will get bashed, that is the reality.
I haven't met him, i have just read most of the stuff he says and i really don't care for the 05 gt, imo the only thing it has going for it is its looks.[/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img] Not to be rude, but frankly, the opinion of a 14 year old kid who hasn't owned, let alone driven, any generation of Mustang doesn't carry much weight at all. I own both the previous generation Mustang and an '06, and the '06 has a lot more going for it than just its looks.
Blaming HTT for things out of his control is absurd. John Colletti isn't some Superman that can solve the financial problems that led to SVT being restructured.
I disagree, i think svt will be gone forever, never ever to be known again as svt and never ever led by a great like John Colletti, also HTT didn't fight for svt, so he will get bashed, that is the reality.
I haven't met him, i have just read most of the stuff he says and i really don't care for the 05 gt, imo the only thing it has going for it is its looks.[/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img] Not to be rude, but frankly, the opinion of a 14 year old kid who hasn't owned, let alone driven, any generation of Mustang doesn't carry much weight at all. I own both the previous generation Mustang and an '06, and the '06 has a lot more going for it than just its looks.
Blaming HTT for things out of his control is absurd. John Colletti isn't some Superman that can solve the financial problems that led to SVT being restructured.
3/9/06, 05:20 PM
#72
I Have No Life
Easy on the personal attacks guys....
We all have opinions..even if some of them are wrong [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
In all fairness...
I'm not gonna run around screaming the sky is falling ... like Chicken Little.
As long as they still release kickin fast cool hot mustangs ... I'm happy...
I could care LESS what they call it....if it keeps with the old SVT formula.
Nothing is saying Ford will stop producing a Cobra like car, or a boss like car.
BUT... again, they are losing a valuable marketing tool for the masses.
And we don't even know the COMPLETE story yet.
We all have opinions..even if some of them are wrong [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
In all fairness...
I'm not gonna run around screaming the sky is falling ... like Chicken Little.
As long as they still release kickin fast cool hot mustangs ... I'm happy...
I could care LESS what they call it....if it keeps with the old SVT formula.
Nothing is saying Ford will stop producing a Cobra like car, or a boss like car.
BUT... again, they are losing a valuable marketing tool for the masses.
And we don't even know the COMPLETE story yet.
3/9/06, 07:09 PM
#73
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vermillion98 @ March 9, 2006, 5:35 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img] Not to be rude, but frankly, the opinion of a 14 year old kid who hasn't owned, let alone driven, any generation of Mustang doesn't carry much weight at all. I own both the previous generation Mustang and an '06, and the '06 has a lot more going for it than just its looks.
Blaming HTT for things out of his control is absurd. John Colletti isn't some Superman that can solve the financial problems that led to SVT being restructured.
[/b][/quote]
You have your opinions, I have mine, my age DOES NOT MATTER, I am sure you don't treat a 30 year old different then a 50 year old, age doesnt matter, its just stereotyping and thats just plain wrong. anyways lets respect each others opinions..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boomer @ March 9, 2006, 7:23 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Easy on the personal attacks guys....
We all have opinions..even if some of them are wrong [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
In all fairness...
I'm not gonna run around screaming the sky is falling ... like Chicken Little.
As long as they still release kickin fast cool hot mustangs ... I'm happy...
I could care LESS what they call it....if it keeps with the old SVT formula.
Nothing is saying Ford will stop producing a Cobra like car, or a boss like car.
BUT... again, they are losing a valuable marketing tool for the masses.
And we don't even know the COMPLETE story yet.
[/b][/quote]
For the most part, i agree
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img] Not to be rude, but frankly, the opinion of a 14 year old kid who hasn't owned, let alone driven, any generation of Mustang doesn't carry much weight at all. I own both the previous generation Mustang and an '06, and the '06 has a lot more going for it than just its looks.
Blaming HTT for things out of his control is absurd. John Colletti isn't some Superman that can solve the financial problems that led to SVT being restructured.
[/b][/quote]
You have your opinions, I have mine, my age DOES NOT MATTER, I am sure you don't treat a 30 year old different then a 50 year old, age doesnt matter, its just stereotyping and thats just plain wrong. anyways lets respect each others opinions..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boomer @ March 9, 2006, 7:23 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Easy on the personal attacks guys....
We all have opinions..even if some of them are wrong [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
In all fairness...
I'm not gonna run around screaming the sky is falling ... like Chicken Little.
As long as they still release kickin fast cool hot mustangs ... I'm happy...
I could care LESS what they call it....if it keeps with the old SVT formula.
Nothing is saying Ford will stop producing a Cobra like car, or a boss like car.
BUT... again, they are losing a valuable marketing tool for the masses.
And we don't even know the COMPLETE story yet.
[/b][/quote]
For the most part, i agree
3/9/06, 08:07 PM
#74
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fordracing200 @ March 9, 2006, 8:12 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
You have your opinions, I have mine, my age DOES NOT MATTER, I am sure you don't treat a 30 year old different then a 50 year old, age doesnt matter, its just stereotyping and thats just plain wrong. anyways lets respect each others opinions..
[/b][/quote]
Age does matter in some things, especially when age means experience. I'm not going to ask my eight year old son or 15 year old niece for tax advice. They don't have any experience with paying taxes or financial planning, due to their ages. They may have opinions on tax planning, but its fair to say that most people would not put much faith in their opinions.
You aren't old enough to have a driver's license, so it's fair to say you don't have much experience with Mustangs, driving them or even in owning a vehicle, is it not? Sure you have a right to your opinion, but the relevancy of those opinions is questionable, especially when your opinions are not based on experience. This is not a personal attack, so don't take it that way. This is just an observation.
You have your opinions, I have mine, my age DOES NOT MATTER, I am sure you don't treat a 30 year old different then a 50 year old, age doesnt matter, its just stereotyping and thats just plain wrong. anyways lets respect each others opinions..
[/b][/quote]
Age does matter in some things, especially when age means experience. I'm not going to ask my eight year old son or 15 year old niece for tax advice. They don't have any experience with paying taxes or financial planning, due to their ages. They may have opinions on tax planning, but its fair to say that most people would not put much faith in their opinions.
You aren't old enough to have a driver's license, so it's fair to say you don't have much experience with Mustangs, driving them or even in owning a vehicle, is it not? Sure you have a right to your opinion, but the relevancy of those opinions is questionable, especially when your opinions are not based on experience. This is not a personal attack, so don't take it that way. This is just an observation.
3/10/06, 07:53 AM
#75
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I am very pragmatic. I posted awhile back that could history be repeating itself.
We are now in a pony wars...chevy, mopar are all soon to be out there.
But we have gas prices rearing their ugly head. I don't recall a time since the late 60's/early 70's that we saw Factory HP levels like they are now or will be. Mustang 300, GTO 400, Charger 425, Daytona 350, unk new chevy products. Will 1972 be upon us again? Now SVT is on the ropes.
I am hopeful that history will not repeat itself again. Ford, GM and others will refocus on what works and what does not.
As one poster said....atleast we saw the Shelby Mustang released....not a cobra (no offense to the cobra owners) the Shelby was the start at Mustang performance.....only to be pushed aside by the suits at ford who "Had a better idea". Shelby was moved from CA and the end was in sight.
I hope I don't revisit this chapter in American muscle car history.
We are now in a pony wars...chevy, mopar are all soon to be out there.
But we have gas prices rearing their ugly head. I don't recall a time since the late 60's/early 70's that we saw Factory HP levels like they are now or will be. Mustang 300, GTO 400, Charger 425, Daytona 350, unk new chevy products. Will 1972 be upon us again? Now SVT is on the ropes.
I am hopeful that history will not repeat itself again. Ford, GM and others will refocus on what works and what does not.
As one poster said....atleast we saw the Shelby Mustang released....not a cobra (no offense to the cobra owners) the Shelby was the start at Mustang performance.....only to be pushed aside by the suits at ford who "Had a better idea". Shelby was moved from CA and the end was in sight.
I hope I don't revisit this chapter in American muscle car history.
3/10/06, 08:11 AM
#76
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Cars get much better mileage now than they did back then. Even muscle cars. And gas is not that expensive. It was too dang cheap before and we were spoiled. If it settles to an avg of 2.00/2.25/2.50, for the three grades, that would be perfect.
3/10/06, 08:28 PM
#77
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vermillion98 @ March 9, 2006, 10:10 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Age does matter in some things, especially when age means experience. I'm not going to ask my eight year old son or 15 year old niece for tax advice. They don't have any experience with paying taxes or financial planning, due to their ages. They may have opinions on tax planning, but its fair to say that most people would not put much faith in their opinions.
You aren't old enough to have a driver's license, so it's fair to say you don't have much experience with Mustangs, driving them or even in owning a vehicle, is it not? Sure you have a right to your opinion, but the relevancy of those opinions is questionable, especially when your opinions are not based on experience. This is not a personal attack, so don't take it that way. This is just an observation.
[/b][/quote]
I understand what you're saying, I can't change my age, I chose the mustang route rather than the pos ricer route like all the other fanboys. Anyways, instead of trying and fake my age, i would rather inform myself, theirfore i read all the mustang publications and visit many sites, and yes you're right, i don't have much expierence with vehicles, just basic supercharger maintenence and exhaust/intake installs, but it is indeed a start, and you're right, some people don't view my opinion as good as if i had expierence, but i have been up close and personal with the S197, and I was not impressed, that is just my opinion, it could be because i was brought into the stang world in the SN95 era, anyways, Enjoy Your car!
-Doug
Age does matter in some things, especially when age means experience. I'm not going to ask my eight year old son or 15 year old niece for tax advice. They don't have any experience with paying taxes or financial planning, due to their ages. They may have opinions on tax planning, but its fair to say that most people would not put much faith in their opinions.
You aren't old enough to have a driver's license, so it's fair to say you don't have much experience with Mustangs, driving them or even in owning a vehicle, is it not? Sure you have a right to your opinion, but the relevancy of those opinions is questionable, especially when your opinions are not based on experience. This is not a personal attack, so don't take it that way. This is just an observation.
[/b][/quote]
I understand what you're saying, I can't change my age, I chose the mustang route rather than the pos ricer route like all the other fanboys. Anyways, instead of trying and fake my age, i would rather inform myself, theirfore i read all the mustang publications and visit many sites, and yes you're right, i don't have much expierence with vehicles, just basic supercharger maintenence and exhaust/intake installs, but it is indeed a start, and you're right, some people don't view my opinion as good as if i had expierence, but i have been up close and personal with the S197, and I was not impressed, that is just my opinion, it could be because i was brought into the stang world in the SN95 era, anyways, Enjoy Your car!
-Doug
3/11/06, 12:58 AM
#78
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fordracing200 @ March 10, 2006, 9:31 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
but i have been up close and personal with the S197, and I was not impressed, that is just my opinion, it could be because i was brought into the stang world in the SN95 era, anyways, Enjoy Your car!
-Doug
[/b][/quote]
That's because you can't drive. I wouldn't base my opinion on a car without driving it and experiencing how the car reacts. The S197 chassis is light years ahead of any previous Mustang, but I guess that doesn't impress you.
but i have been up close and personal with the S197, and I was not impressed, that is just my opinion, it could be because i was brought into the stang world in the SN95 era, anyways, Enjoy Your car!
-Doug
[/b][/quote]
That's because you can't drive. I wouldn't base my opinion on a car without driving it and experiencing how the car reacts. The S197 chassis is light years ahead of any previous Mustang, but I guess that doesn't impress you.
3/11/06, 07:35 AM
#79
I Have No Life
I think it dates back to dougs...unimpressed 'Stand on the gas pedal, and can't spin the tires' feeling when he was with his uncle (or other family member)
I've driven a Auto 05-GT and I can't say it was lethargic....
but just like the Manual..it has to get up in RPMs to take off
I've driven a Auto 05-GT and I can't say it was lethargic....
but just like the Manual..it has to get up in RPMs to take off
3/11/06, 09:18 AM
#80
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boomer @ March 11, 2006, 8:38 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I think it dates back to dougs...unimpressed 'Stand on the gas pedal, and can't spin the tires' feeling when he was with his uncle (or other family member)
I've driven a Auto 05-GT and I can't say it was lethargic....
but just like the Manual..it has to get up in RPMs to take off
[/b][/quote]
Spinning tires = slow.
I think it dates back to dougs...unimpressed 'Stand on the gas pedal, and can't spin the tires' feeling when he was with his uncle (or other family member)
I've driven a Auto 05-GT and I can't say it was lethargic....
but just like the Manual..it has to get up in RPMs to take off
[/b][/quote]
Spinning tires = slow.