retrofit a 2013/14 cluster
6/26/14, 03:37 PM
#41
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Join Date: June 26, 2014
Location: PA
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Dude if you get this to work, I am so down with this! I have a 2009 GT500 and would love to put a 2013 GT500 gauge cluster in. Let us know how you make out. Wow so cool. I retro fitted 2013 Recaro seats in my 2009 made them power too, but this mod is sooo much cooler!
6/28/14, 09:32 PM
#44
Mach 1 Member
Fuel gauge is easy. I can send you my old 2010 fuel pump. Btw, only the 2010 fuel pump can solve this, as the coyotes use a different fuel system.
05-09 go from 160ohm to zero and 2010+ go from zero to 160ohm.. Dunno why Ford flipped it. TPMS is also different. I would assume the blackbox can help, except for fuel..
LEXiiON
05-09 go from 160ohm to zero and 2010+ go from zero to 160ohm.. Dunno why Ford flipped it. TPMS is also different. I would assume the blackbox can help, except for fuel..
LEXiiON
Last edited by LEXiiON; 6/28/14 at 09:36 PM.
6/29/14, 09:35 AM
#46
Mach 1 Member
6/29/14, 10:53 AM
#47
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter
Looking at the diagrams, there is just too much to change if switching out the PCMs. And then I would have to change out other modules so they can comminicate with the new PCM.
This can certainly be done, but I am looking at changing out all the modules and wiring and replacing it all with 2013/14 stuff.
I don't want to go there.
Matt said that he could get the Black Box to do most of what the new cluster is expecting. When he is back, I'll have to consult with him again.
This can certainly be done, but I am looking at changing out all the modules and wiring and replacing it all with 2013/14 stuff.
I don't want to go there.
Matt said that he could get the Black Box to do most of what the new cluster is expecting. When he is back, I'll have to consult with him again.
6/29/14, 11:07 AM
#48
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter
As for the fuel pump, looking at the diagrams, the fuel signals are sent to the SJB and then to the cluster in the 05. 13/14 are sent directly to the cluster.
Parking brake and oil pressure are also sent to the SJB
Just looking to see rewiring these things directly to the cluster will affect anything else.
Parking brake and oil pressure are also sent to the SJB
Just looking to see rewiring these things directly to the cluster will affect anything else.
6/29/14, 11:12 AM
#49
Mach 1 Member
As for the fuel pump, looking at the diagrams, the fuel signals are sent to the SJB and then to the cluster in the 05. 13/14 are sent directly to the cluster.
Parking brake and oil pressure are also sent to the SJB
Just looking to see rewiring these things directly to the cluster will affect anything else.
Parking brake and oil pressure are also sent to the SJB
Just looking to see rewiring these things directly to the cluster will affect anything else.
6/29/14, 11:50 AM
#56
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter
So you are pretty confident that even if I wire up the existing fuel pump and sensor direct to the 2013 cluster that it will not read accurate and that I need to upgrade to the 2010+ pump and sensor to get the cluster to read right?
6/29/14, 12:00 PM
#57
Mach 1 Member
Others had those issues with wrong pumps.. 05-09 in 10's and it read wrong, same vice versa...
LEXiiON
6/29/14, 02:02 PM
#58
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter
Good to know.
I'll probably pick yours up, but need to try a couple things first.
Updated wiring conversion:
2005 to 2013/14
26 - IDK
25 - 3
3 - 1
24 - IDK
23 - IDK
20 - 7
21 - 7
13 - IDK
2 - 8
15 - 26
14 - 25
18 - 13
17 - 12
IDK- 22
IDK- 23
IDK- 10
IDK- 9
IDK- 5
IDK- 18
IDK- 19
IDK- 15
IDK- 16
From the 2013/14 cluster:
6 goes to pin 2 on message center switch
4 goes to pin 3 on message center switch
2014 C220
1 - power on at all times
2 - not used
3 - power on run/start for PATS
4 - message center switch signal (go to pin 3 on switch)
5 - switch oil pressure
6 - message center switch return (go to pin 2 on switch)
7 - ivd/tcs on/off
8 - ground
9 - compass mod -
10- compass mod +
11- not used
12- HSCAN-
13- HSCAN+
14- not used
15- fuel level signal (from fuel pump/sender)
16- fuel level return (from fuel pump/sender)
17- not used
18- fuel level signal (from fuel level sensor)
19- fuel level return (from fuel level sensor)
20- not used
21- not used
22- transceiver PATS RX_IN
23- transceiver PATS TX control
24- not used
25- MSCAN-
26- MSCAN+
2005 C220
1 - not used
2 - ground
3 - power on at all times
4 - not used
5 - not used
6 - message center switch signal
7 - message center switch return
8 - not used
9 - not used
10- not used
11- not used
12- not used
13- key in ignition warning signal
14- MSCAN-
15- MSCAN+
16- not used
17- HSCAN-
18- HSCAN+
19- not used
20- TCS signal (on)
21- TCS return (off)
22- not used
23- seat belt warning and tone
24- airbag warning
25- power on run/start for PATS
26- power onn run/start
I'll probably pick yours up, but need to try a couple things first.
Updated wiring conversion:
2005 to 2013/14
26 - IDK
25 - 3
3 - 1
24 - IDK
23 - IDK
20 - 7
21 - 7
13 - IDK
2 - 8
15 - 26
14 - 25
18 - 13
17 - 12
IDK- 22
IDK- 23
IDK- 10
IDK- 9
IDK- 5
IDK- 18
IDK- 19
IDK- 15
IDK- 16
From the 2013/14 cluster:
6 goes to pin 2 on message center switch
4 goes to pin 3 on message center switch
2014 C220
1 - power on at all times
2 - not used
3 - power on run/start for PATS
4 - message center switch signal (go to pin 3 on switch)
5 - switch oil pressure
6 - message center switch return (go to pin 2 on switch)
7 - ivd/tcs on/off
8 - ground
9 - compass mod -
10- compass mod +
11- not used
12- HSCAN-
13- HSCAN+
14- not used
15- fuel level signal (from fuel pump/sender)
16- fuel level return (from fuel pump/sender)
17- not used
18- fuel level signal (from fuel level sensor)
19- fuel level return (from fuel level sensor)
20- not used
21- not used
22- transceiver PATS RX_IN
23- transceiver PATS TX control
24- not used
25- MSCAN-
26- MSCAN+
2005 C220
1 - not used
2 - ground
3 - power on at all times
4 - not used
5 - not used
6 - message center switch signal
7 - message center switch return
8 - not used
9 - not used
10- not used
11- not used
12- not used
13- key in ignition warning signal
14- MSCAN-
15- MSCAN+
16- not used
17- HSCAN-
18- HSCAN+
19- not used
20- TCS signal (on)
21- TCS return (off)
22- not used
23- seat belt warning and tone
24- airbag warning
25- power on run/start for PATS
26- power onn run/start
6/29/14, 02:31 PM
#59
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter
1) On the 2005 cluster, the airbag indicator and seat belt indicator and tone (24 and 23 on the plug for 2005) come from the RCM. The 2013/14 must be receiving these signals through the CANbus.
I would think the Black Box could take care of this.
2) Traction control indicator is a signal and return on the 2005 and so are 2 separate wires. But it is only 1 wire for 2013/14.
Need a Black Box here too.
3) The key in the ignition warning on the 2005 goes straight to the cluster to pin 13. On the 2013/14, it goes to the SJB on C2280B pin#35. Info must be sent via CANbus again.
Need a Black Box.
4) PATS is in the cluster for 2013/14 and is pin# 22 and 23. Don't need these, so don't worry about it. Car will start without it.
5) On the 2013/14 cluster, pin# 9 and 10 are for a compass. Getting the autodimming mirror from a 2011 - 2014 will solve this. I am not sure if compass direction is even needed.
6) Oil pressure goes direct to the 2013/14 cluster into pin# 5. On the 2005, it goes to the SJB on C2280C pin# 42. Maybe disconnecting it to the SJB and rewiring it to go to the cluster will work? Otherwise, once again the info is sent via CANbus.
If rewiring doesn't work, then a Black Box is needed.
7) Fuel level is also sent directly to the cluster in 2013/14. In 2005 it goes to the SJB (C2280C pin# 31, 43, 44) and then CANbus to the cluster. Again I am thinking of disconnecting the wires to the SJB and rewiring them to go to the cluster instead.
Here is how it would work:
On C2280C, pin #43 is the signal for the fuel level sensor. That will go to pin# 18 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin# 31 is the return for the fuel level sensor. That goes to pin# 19 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin# 44 is the signal for the fuel pump (fuel sender). That goes to pin# 15 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin#31 is also the return for the fuel pump (fuel sender). It goes to pin# 16 on the cluster.
If rewiring doesn't work, then a Black Box is needed here, too.
*Lexiion says that a 2010 fuel pump and sensors are needed for this. I will check this out just in case, but it seems he is right.
Other things to check:
a - overdrive light
b - cruise control light - cruise will not work right. The circuit board needs to have the resistances changed to make it work almost 100%. I already have a solution for this in another thread and will post here.
I know that akdoggie has managed to put in a 2010-2012 steering wheel and switchgear, but he is not using the 5 directional message center button.
c - parking brake light
d - trunk ajar warning
e - temp and other guages
f - other idiot lights that I can't think of right now. I have a VCMII that I will hook up and see what DTCs it is giving me when I hook up the cluster again.
Turn indicators and hazard lights worked as well as the door ajar. Voltmeter also worked.
I would think the Black Box could take care of this.
2) Traction control indicator is a signal and return on the 2005 and so are 2 separate wires. But it is only 1 wire for 2013/14.
Need a Black Box here too.
3) The key in the ignition warning on the 2005 goes straight to the cluster to pin 13. On the 2013/14, it goes to the SJB on C2280B pin#35. Info must be sent via CANbus again.
Need a Black Box.
4) PATS is in the cluster for 2013/14 and is pin# 22 and 23. Don't need these, so don't worry about it. Car will start without it.
5) On the 2013/14 cluster, pin# 9 and 10 are for a compass. Getting the autodimming mirror from a 2011 - 2014 will solve this. I am not sure if compass direction is even needed.
6) Oil pressure goes direct to the 2013/14 cluster into pin# 5. On the 2005, it goes to the SJB on C2280C pin# 42. Maybe disconnecting it to the SJB and rewiring it to go to the cluster will work? Otherwise, once again the info is sent via CANbus.
If rewiring doesn't work, then a Black Box is needed.
7) Fuel level is also sent directly to the cluster in 2013/14. In 2005 it goes to the SJB (C2280C pin# 31, 43, 44) and then CANbus to the cluster. Again I am thinking of disconnecting the wires to the SJB and rewiring them to go to the cluster instead.
Here is how it would work:
On C2280C, pin #43 is the signal for the fuel level sensor. That will go to pin# 18 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin# 31 is the return for the fuel level sensor. That goes to pin# 19 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin# 44 is the signal for the fuel pump (fuel sender). That goes to pin# 15 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin#31 is also the return for the fuel pump (fuel sender). It goes to pin# 16 on the cluster.
If rewiring doesn't work, then a Black Box is needed here, too.
*Lexiion says that a 2010 fuel pump and sensors are needed for this. I will check this out just in case, but it seems he is right.
Other things to check:
a - overdrive light
b - cruise control light - cruise will not work right. The circuit board needs to have the resistances changed to make it work almost 100%. I already have a solution for this in another thread and will post here.
I know that akdoggie has managed to put in a 2010-2012 steering wheel and switchgear, but he is not using the 5 directional message center button.
c - parking brake light
d - trunk ajar warning
e - temp and other guages
f - other idiot lights that I can't think of right now. I have a VCMII that I will hook up and see what DTCs it is giving me when I hook up the cluster again.
Turn indicators and hazard lights worked as well as the door ajar. Voltmeter also worked.
6/29/14, 03:50 PM
#60
Mach 1 Member
1) On the 2005 cluster, the airbag indicator and seat belt indicator and tone (24 and 23 on the plug for 2005) come from the RCM. The 2013/14 must be receiving these signals through the CANbus.
I would think the Black Box could take care of this.
2) Traction control indicator is a signal and return on the 2005 and so are 2 separate wires. But it is only 1 wire for 2013/14.
Need a Black Box here too.
3) The key in the ignition warning on the 2005 goes straight to the cluster to pin 13. On the 2013/14, it goes to the SJB on C2280B pin#35. Info must be sent via CANbus again.
Need a Black Box.
4) PATS is in the cluster for 2013/14 and is pin# 22 and 23. Don't need these, so don't worry about it. Car will start without it.
5) On the 2013/14 cluster, pin# 9 and 10 are for a compass. Getting the autodimming mirror from a 2011 - 2014 will solve this. I am not sure if compass direction is even needed.
6) Oil pressure goes direct to the 2013/14 cluster into pin# 5. On the 2005, it goes to the SJB on C2280C pin# 42. Maybe disconnecting it to the SJB and rewiring it to go to the cluster will work? Otherwise, once again the info is sent via CANbus.
If rewiring doesn't work, then a Black Box is needed.
7) Fuel level is also sent directly to the cluster in 2013/14. In 2005 it goes to the SJB (C2280C pin# 31, 43, 44) and then CANbus to the cluster. Again I am thinking of disconnecting the wires to the SJB and rewiring them to go to the cluster instead.
Here is how it would work:
On C2280C, pin #43 is the signal for the fuel level sensor. That will go to pin# 18 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin# 31 is the return for the fuel level sensor. That goes to pin# 19 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin# 44 is the signal for the fuel pump (fuel sender). That goes to pin# 15 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin#31 is also the return for the fuel pump (fuel sender). It goes to pin# 16 on the cluster.
If rewiring doesn't work, then a Black Box is needed here, too.
*Lexiion says that a 2010 fuel pump and sensors are needed for this. I will check this out just in case, but it seems he is right.
Other things to check:
a - overdrive light
b - cruise control light - cruise will not work right. The circuit board needs to have the resistances changed to make it work almost 100%. I already have a solution for this in another thread and will post here.
I know that akdoggie has managed to put in a 2010-2012 steering wheel and switchgear, but he is not using the 5 directional message center button.
c - parking brake light
d - trunk ajar warning
e - temp and other guages
f - other idiot lights that I can't think of right now. I have a VCMII that I will hook up and see what DTCs it is giving me when I hook up the cluster again.
Turn indicators and hazard lights worked as well as the door ajar. Voltmeter also worked.
I would think the Black Box could take care of this.
2) Traction control indicator is a signal and return on the 2005 and so are 2 separate wires. But it is only 1 wire for 2013/14.
Need a Black Box here too.
3) The key in the ignition warning on the 2005 goes straight to the cluster to pin 13. On the 2013/14, it goes to the SJB on C2280B pin#35. Info must be sent via CANbus again.
Need a Black Box.
4) PATS is in the cluster for 2013/14 and is pin# 22 and 23. Don't need these, so don't worry about it. Car will start without it.
5) On the 2013/14 cluster, pin# 9 and 10 are for a compass. Getting the autodimming mirror from a 2011 - 2014 will solve this. I am not sure if compass direction is even needed.
6) Oil pressure goes direct to the 2013/14 cluster into pin# 5. On the 2005, it goes to the SJB on C2280C pin# 42. Maybe disconnecting it to the SJB and rewiring it to go to the cluster will work? Otherwise, once again the info is sent via CANbus.
If rewiring doesn't work, then a Black Box is needed.
7) Fuel level is also sent directly to the cluster in 2013/14. In 2005 it goes to the SJB (C2280C pin# 31, 43, 44) and then CANbus to the cluster. Again I am thinking of disconnecting the wires to the SJB and rewiring them to go to the cluster instead.
Here is how it would work:
On C2280C, pin #43 is the signal for the fuel level sensor. That will go to pin# 18 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin# 31 is the return for the fuel level sensor. That goes to pin# 19 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin# 44 is the signal for the fuel pump (fuel sender). That goes to pin# 15 on the cluster.
On C2280C, pin#31 is also the return for the fuel pump (fuel sender). It goes to pin# 16 on the cluster.
If rewiring doesn't work, then a Black Box is needed here, too.
*Lexiion says that a 2010 fuel pump and sensors are needed for this. I will check this out just in case, but it seems he is right.
Other things to check:
a - overdrive light
b - cruise control light - cruise will not work right. The circuit board needs to have the resistances changed to make it work almost 100%. I already have a solution for this in another thread and will post here.
I know that akdoggie has managed to put in a 2010-2012 steering wheel and switchgear, but he is not using the 5 directional message center button.
c - parking brake light
d - trunk ajar warning
e - temp and other guages
f - other idiot lights that I can't think of right now. I have a VCMII that I will hook up and see what DTCs it is giving me when I hook up the cluster again.
Turn indicators and hazard lights worked as well as the door ajar. Voltmeter also worked.
The seat belt indicator doesn't work in mine either... I am not sure why... The chime works, though..
LEXiiON