S197 BOSS Mustang Coming!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>1. In a street car, IRS is not about handling, it's about improving comfort and drivability.[/b][/quote]
Quite to the contrary, a good IRS is probably mostnusefull for expanding the handling envelope over the greatest range of road conditions found in the real world or a street car than would be realized in the generally much smoother roads of a race course.
On smooth roads, tracks or the strip, an IRS simply would not have the opportunity to show its advantages over a live axle, and if you narrowly limit the scope of your performance driving/racing to such ideal conditions, then yes, an IRS would not represent much of a real improvement over a live axle (SRA). But, the more challenging the road (surface), the greater the advantage a good IRS will have in handling AND ride AND comfort together over a live axle.
Sure, the improvement in the secondary aspects of ride and comfort is a bit of icing on the cake, but to assert that, somehow, handling is not relevent is simply not true as that is the primary benefit of an IRS on a performance car on real world roads.
Quite to the contrary, a good IRS is probably mostnusefull for expanding the handling envelope over the greatest range of road conditions found in the real world or a street car than would be realized in the generally much smoother roads of a race course.
On smooth roads, tracks or the strip, an IRS simply would not have the opportunity to show its advantages over a live axle, and if you narrowly limit the scope of your performance driving/racing to such ideal conditions, then yes, an IRS would not represent much of a real improvement over a live axle (SRA). But, the more challenging the road (surface), the greater the advantage a good IRS will have in handling AND ride AND comfort together over a live axle.
Sure, the improvement in the secondary aspects of ride and comfort is a bit of icing on the cake, but to assert that, somehow, handling is not relevent is simply not true as that is the primary benefit of an IRS on a performance car on real world roads.
Shelby GT350 Member
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softbatch @ February 6, 2006, 10:18 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Has the idea of Cammer Heads and Intake on a 4.6L engine been said yet?
I don't think there would be that much power lost by dropping the extra displacement.
[/b][/quote]
The Cammer heads on a 4.6 may not give the improvement you are hoping for. The smaller bore shrouds the valves and limits air flow.
I haven't checked, but the smaller 4.6 bore may not even clear the Cammer valves.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rhumb @ February 6, 2006, 10:51 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Quite to the contrary, a good IRS is probably mostnusefull for expanding the handling envelope over the greatest range of road conditions found in the real world or a street car [/b][/quote]
Nonsense, even the worst handling street vehicle sold today can be driven a 2X legal speeds.
Has the idea of Cammer Heads and Intake on a 4.6L engine been said yet?
I don't think there would be that much power lost by dropping the extra displacement.
[/b][/quote]
The Cammer heads on a 4.6 may not give the improvement you are hoping for. The smaller bore shrouds the valves and limits air flow.
I haven't checked, but the smaller 4.6 bore may not even clear the Cammer valves.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rhumb @ February 6, 2006, 10:51 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Quite to the contrary, a good IRS is probably mostnusefull for expanding the handling envelope over the greatest range of road conditions found in the real world or a street car [/b][/quote]
Nonsense, even the worst handling street vehicle sold today can be driven a 2X legal speeds.
Cobra Member
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V10 @ February 6, 2006, 5:30 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Nonsense, even the worst handling street vehicle sold today can be driven a 2X legal speeds.
[/b][/quote]
Umm, I wouldn't exactly try and take a hard right turn at 50mph in a Seqouia. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
Also, 400hp can't be utilized at legal speeds either, does that they shouldn't sell it? Of course not. (actually, I wish they would spend more energy/money on a better overall product than simply bumping hp, but I am in the minority here).
With the IRS thing, you both are correct. Rhumb is right in saying the IRS will have a better handling enevlope over rough surface as the IRS can do a better job at keeping the contact patch as big as possible over uneven surfaces. But, for the average daily driver, in average conditions, they will only notice the ride improvement. Let's not bicker over symantics here. Remember the true enemy: SRA supporters. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
In all reality, though, it doesn't matter as Ford won't put an IRS in the Mustang anytime soon.
Nonsense, even the worst handling street vehicle sold today can be driven a 2X legal speeds.
[/b][/quote]
Umm, I wouldn't exactly try and take a hard right turn at 50mph in a Seqouia. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
Also, 400hp can't be utilized at legal speeds either, does that they shouldn't sell it? Of course not. (actually, I wish they would spend more energy/money on a better overall product than simply bumping hp, but I am in the minority here).
With the IRS thing, you both are correct. Rhumb is right in saying the IRS will have a better handling enevlope over rough surface as the IRS can do a better job at keeping the contact patch as big as possible over uneven surfaces. But, for the average daily driver, in average conditions, they will only notice the ride improvement. Let's not bicker over symantics here. Remember the true enemy: SRA supporters. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
In all reality, though, it doesn't matter as Ford won't put an IRS in the Mustang anytime soon.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rampant @ February 6, 2006, 5:52 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
........ (actually, I wish they would spend more energy/money on a better overall product than simply bumping hp, but I am in the minority here).[/b][/quote]
I'm with you on that, Rampant! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
........ (actually, I wish they would spend more energy/money on a better overall product than simply bumping hp, but I am in the minority here).[/b][/quote]
I'm with you on that, Rampant! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
I talk to cones.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V10 @ February 6, 2006, 5:30 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The Cammer heads on a 4.6 may not give the improvement you are hoping for. The smaller bore shrouds the valves and limits air flow.
I haven't checked, but the smaller 4.6 bore may not even clear the Cammer valves.
[/b][/quote]
The heads from the Cammer are the GT heads although I'm sure they have been optimized for the cammer since the only thing shared is the bare head.
I think the intake is where it's at as far as the Cammer is concerned and I doubt Ford will ever let that thing get on a car other than a race car. $$$$$
Ford GT Heads
The Cammer heads on a 4.6 may not give the improvement you are hoping for. The smaller bore shrouds the valves and limits air flow.
I haven't checked, but the smaller 4.6 bore may not even clear the Cammer valves.
[/b][/quote]
The heads from the Cammer are the GT heads although I'm sure they have been optimized for the cammer since the only thing shared is the bare head.
I think the intake is where it's at as far as the Cammer is concerned and I doubt Ford will ever let that thing get on a car other than a race car. $$$$$
Ford GT Heads
Shelby GT350 Member
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softbatch @ February 6, 2006, 8:55 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The heads from the Cammer are the GT heads although I'm sure they have been optimized for the cammer since the only thing shared is the bare head.
I think the intake is where it's at as far as the Cammer is concerned and I doubt Ford will ever let that thing get on a car other than a race car. $$$$$
Ford GT Heads
[/b][/quote]
63 lb per head - don't drop one on your foot ouch!
Intersting after all the hoopla about the super fantastic, ultimate Ford GT heads, the FRPP catalog says that they are exactly the same as used on the 2000 Cobra R. So in all those years since the R Ford has not made any improvements to the 4V heads? (That P/N you linked to says it's the head assembly, NOT the bare head.
The heads from the Cammer are the GT heads although I'm sure they have been optimized for the cammer since the only thing shared is the bare head.
I think the intake is where it's at as far as the Cammer is concerned and I doubt Ford will ever let that thing get on a car other than a race car. $$$$$
Ford GT Heads
[/b][/quote]
63 lb per head - don't drop one on your foot ouch!
Intersting after all the hoopla about the super fantastic, ultimate Ford GT heads, the FRPP catalog says that they are exactly the same as used on the 2000 Cobra R. So in all those years since the R Ford has not made any improvements to the 4V heads? (That P/N you linked to says it's the head assembly, NOT the bare head.
I talk to cones.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V10 @ February 8, 2006, 8:49 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
63 lb per head - don't drop one on your foot ouch!
Intersting after all the hoopla about the super fantastic, ultimate Ford GT heads, the FRPP catalog says that they are exactly the same as used on the 2000 Cobra R. So in all those years since the R Ford has not made any improvements to the 4V heads? (That P/N you linked to says it's the head assembly, NOT the bare head.
[/b][/quote]
Yeah it is crazy about the weight especially when they list the regular Cobra performance heads at 43lbs.
63 lb per head - don't drop one on your foot ouch!
Intersting after all the hoopla about the super fantastic, ultimate Ford GT heads, the FRPP catalog says that they are exactly the same as used on the 2000 Cobra R. So in all those years since the R Ford has not made any improvements to the 4V heads? (That P/N you linked to says it's the head assembly, NOT the bare head.
[/b][/quote]
Originally posted by Tech Notes
Bare head used on M-6007-R50 Grand Am cup race engine
Bare head used on M-6007-R50 Grand Am cup race engine
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Joined: May 16, 2004
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From: Bristol, TN
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softbatch @ February 6, 2006, 10:18 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Has the idea of Cammer Heads and Intake on a 4.6L engine been said yet?
I don't think there would be that much power lost by dropping the extra displacement.
[/b][/quote]
Well if you like your powerband to emulate those found in F1, it wouldn't be a bad idea.
Despite Honda's best efforts to convince everybody that horsepower is the force that actually propels the car and it has nothing to do with torque, the Cobra/Cammer/GT/Shelby cylinderheads are a bit large for the application, Just because these things flow mondo air and are the pinnacle of 4v modular heads doesn't make them the do all end all perfomance cylinderhead for a production naturally aspirated engine.
Scale them down to a reasonable size with good velocity and then give them VVT and your talking.
Has the idea of Cammer Heads and Intake on a 4.6L engine been said yet?
I don't think there would be that much power lost by dropping the extra displacement.
[/b][/quote]
Well if you like your powerband to emulate those found in F1, it wouldn't be a bad idea.
Despite Honda's best efforts to convince everybody that horsepower is the force that actually propels the car and it has nothing to do with torque, the Cobra/Cammer/GT/Shelby cylinderheads are a bit large for the application, Just because these things flow mondo air and are the pinnacle of 4v modular heads doesn't make them the do all end all perfomance cylinderhead for a production naturally aspirated engine.
Scale them down to a reasonable size with good velocity and then give them VVT and your talking.
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