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Aftermarket 2005+ Mustangs Discuss the Offerings from Roush, Saleen, Steeda, Shinoda, and Others

S197 BOSS Mustang Coming!

Old 12/15/05, 06:56 AM
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It Was Nice of them to Mention that TMS had the First REAL Info on the California Special.

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Old 12/15/05, 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by rony1976@December 15, 2005, 7:43 AM
What kind of horsepower would this car be putting out? I mean, we already have the Shelby coming out, with over 450 with a 5.4 supercharged engine... So what other engine could they possibly use in the mustang to be able to compete with Corvettes and the new Challenger coming out (if it truly has the 6.1 engine)?

How about a nice stroker engine.
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Old 12/15/05, 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by WBstangGT@December 15, 2005, 12:13 AM
I wonder what these guys will have to say about Ford using the Boss name...

http://www.teamshinoda.com/
Ford Still owns the "Boss" Name. Shinoda only owns the name, "Boss Shinoda" so they won't say squat
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Old 12/15/05, 07:42 AM
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Realistically it'll probably be an existing (aka parts bin) motor; the 4.6L and 5.4L are the likely contenders. We'll have to wait (as always) and see, cause who know what Ford will do.
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Old 12/15/05, 07:55 AM
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The article in the link mentioned the 5.4L. Hence the reference to a BOSS 329 (naturally aspirated I would assume). My uneducated guess would be that it would put out 350-375hp when properly set up for the Boss
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Old 12/15/05, 07:56 AM
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Everyone needed to read that the pictures of that "302 BOSS" was someones 05 gt made into a tribute car - NOT A CONCEPT!

That said, it'll need to be above 350HP, but stay below the GT500's 475. A nice round 420 would work! Next issue will be price and production numbers. More or less than 25,000 cars? $34-38k?
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Old 12/15/05, 08:25 AM
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Just some cheesy customer doll-up job.

My hope for the Boss is that it would hew more to the small high-winder motor in the spirit of the original Boss 302, i.e., a 4V 4.6 with 350-375hp and a strong emphasis on chassis dynamics (maybe Ford could finally trot out their IRS for this one in recognition that it really is the 21st century after all). A tight 6 spd MTX, pizza pan brakes, wide meats all around and some supportive Recaros in the pilot house would be great. I would have two outside decor levels, one with just some subtle Boss fender badging for more of a Q-ship to better fly under the radar on those long, back road strafing runs. Alternatively, a full-on, circus-come-to-town with all the stripes, slats, stickers, spoilers, wings, ducts, scoops, lumps, bumps, shiny things, etc for the "more is better" design camp. But my own hope is that the general theme would be more of a serious performance car personna rather than flamboyant show boat -- those who know will know.

Save the big-cube 5.4 for a Mach I. A big long-stroke torquer would be better suited for a more drag oriented Mach I anyways and also provide better product distinction. As mentioned, a Mach I would be very drag oriented with the emphasis on off the line acceleration. A 3V (for ease of mods) or 4V (nth degree more power) 5.4 might not be tuned for much more peak power than a Boss 4.6, but its power band would be at a significantly lower rpm and broader, better suiting the strip. The ol' spruce log live axle is perfect in this specific application and maybe even a shaker hood since drag racers seem particularly fond of dead-on old-school retro, even if it doesn't make nearly so much sense, technically, on a modern EFI motor. Maybe just a hood cutout to reveal a taller intake cover that was originally going to be on the Stang, leaving the cold air ducting to a more functional, effective routing. A higher rear end ratio for that outta-the-hole dig plus suspension tuning more for hooking up the rear end than corner slashing. Styling would be a bit more old-school and loud for street presence than the serious performance-instrument Boss.
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Old 12/15/05, 08:29 AM
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put on some magnum 500's and wider tires, drop it a lil, then i'll take it!
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Old 12/15/05, 08:30 AM
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Very highly doubt to see any IRS in the mustang until it is 'needed' (by this I mean..a competitor has one... like the Camaro/Challenger)
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Old 12/15/05, 08:30 AM
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considering that the BOSS' primarly goal is the twisties, big brakes and big wheels are a must.

In terms of the motor, I would assume that the 4.6 and 5.4 are pretty close in weight. I would hope an aluminum DOHC (prefferably) or 3V 5.4 would be the motor for the car. An aluminum block is a must for this car to keep it lighter and so it isn't nose-heavy. This engine would provide good competition to the new cars showing up in '09
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Old 12/15/05, 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by WBstangGT@December 15, 2005, 1:13 AM
I wonder what these guys will have to say about Ford using the Boss name...

http://www.teamshinoda.com/
Nothing, they don't own the name.

I like the Boss idea. Needs to be made for the twisties though, not just straight line.
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Old 12/15/05, 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by mr-mstng@December 15, 2005, 9:47 AM
Nothing, they don't own the name.

I like the Boss idea. Needs to be made for the twisties though, not just straight line.
Just to elaborate on this, Shinoda owns the name "Boss Shinoda" but everything else named "Boss" (Boss 302, Boss 429, and just plain Boss) as it relates to anything automotive (including toy cars) is owned by Ford.
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Old 12/15/05, 12:24 PM
  #33  
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Originally posted by TheMustangSource@December 14, 2005, 8:35 PM
I prefer the name Boss 5.4 over Boss 329.
Really?

I do admit Boss 329 is kinda odd but I am a fan of the engine displacement.

In regards to the future boss mustang; ford should stick the 5.0 Cammer into it and you will have a real Boss 302. What would be hot if they can produce a small block version of the 429 as well ( like the 2006 z06's small block 427 ).

whatever ford decides ... it should be its own engine.

I personally like the 1969 C stripes

I am crossing my fingers and waiting.
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Old 12/15/05, 01:23 PM
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Like I stated on the Mach1 topic, I don't care if its a Mach1 or Boss. I am sick of waiting!
As long as the car is under $35k and is in the 350hp-425hp range I'll be thrilled.
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Old 12/15/05, 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by rhumb@December 15, 2005, 9:28 AM
My hope for the Boss is that it would hew more to the small high-winder motor in the spirit of the original Boss 302, i.e., a 4V 4.6 with 350-375hp and a strong emphasis on chassis dynamics (maybe Ford could finally trot out their IRS for this one in recognition that it really is the 21st century after all). A tight 6 spd MTX, pizza pan brakes, wide meats all around and some supportive Recaros in the pilot house would be great. I would have two outside decor levels, one with just some subtle Boss fender badging for more of a Q-ship to better fly under the radar on those long, back road strafing runs. Alternatively, a full-on, circus-come-to-town with all the stripes, slats, stickers, spoilers, wings, ducts, scoops, lumps, bumps, shiny things, etc for the "more is better" design camp. But my own hope is that the general theme would be more of a serious performance car personna rather than flamboyant show boat -- those who know will know.
I agree with your description of the Boss with the emphasis on chassis dynamics and stellar handling characteristics. I also agree there should be two distinct exterior decor options.

However, I think that if either the Challenger or Camaro (or both) concepts make it to production, they will be sporting alot more than 4.6L of displacement and while a 4.6L 4V may fit the Boss theme, Ford will be forced to using a larger engine in order to compete for bragging rights. Tuned properly an All-Aluminum 5.4L 4V engine would be a strong performer although not quite the high-rpm performer that Rhumb and I prefer. The 5.0L Cammer would be awesome but I seriously doubt that engine will ever see production.
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Old 12/15/05, 03:19 PM
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However, I think that if either the Challenger or Camaro (or both) concepts make it to production, they will be sporting a lot more than 4.6L of displacement and while a 4.6L 4V may fit the Boss theme, Ford will be forced to using a larger engine in order to compete for bragging rights.
I think the best answer would not to be to up-engine the Boss, but rather, to upgrade the GT500 by reducing weight (AL block for a start) and better suspension (IRS, at least as an option). There is always a huge engineering attraction simply to dump "more" into a car to make it "better." Pretty soon, you end up with a 2-ton GT500.

We saw the same thing happen in the sixties. The original lithe, light and agile sub 3,000 lb. Stang bloated faster than Elvis into the 429 behemoths of the early '70s in a chase-your-tail cycle of ever bigger motors requiring ever bigger cars needing ever bigger motors...et voila, you had your hulking 4,000+ lb 429 Mach I. Does this scenario look more than a little familiar nowadays?

Instead, I would hope that Ford, should it even make a Boss (or GT350), would instead rely on engineering sophistication. Show some technical and engineering discipline and attack the power/weight ratio from the other end – mass -- and reap all the added benefits to handling, braking, feel, agility and even efficiency, never mind the distinctive driving character of such a car.
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Old 12/15/05, 04:56 PM
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BOSS 329 or whatever the displacment ends up being. Leave the liters for the ricers.
I dont need a 5000 IRS, the Roush Stage 3 pulls over 1g on the skid pad without IRS.
It definately needs to be competion wise at least as fast as a 6.1 Hemi Challenger or LS2 Camaro will potentially be.
I would prefer NA vs supercharger or turbo.
The old BOSS graphics/stripes just dont work well for me on the new body. Havent seen any I like.
Give it unique functional quarter windows ala 66 fastback as well as a unique functional hood scoop. Dont care for the Roush, Xenon etc hood scoops.

I wonder if it will be farmed out to be built. In the Car & Driver issue w/the Shelby convert on the cover, there was a mini intreview with Carol Shelby. If surmised Ford would not build the next SE for economic reasons but would farm it out.

In any case bring it on and make it strong.
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Old 12/15/05, 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Thunder Road@December 15, 2005, 4:59 PM
I dont need a 5000 IRS, the Roush Stage 3 pulls over 1g on the skid pad without IRS.
Yeah, because the skidpad is perfectly smooth pavement. Get on some mountain twisties with less-than-perfect roads...hit a bump, pothole or undulation in mid-corner...and watch the back end hop around like rabbit on a bed of coals.
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Old 12/15/05, 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by BC_Shelby@December 15, 2005, 2:27 PM
Yeah, because the skidpad is perfectly smooth pavement. Get on some mountain twisties with less-than-perfect roads...hit a bump, pothole or undulation in mid-corner...and watch the back end hop around like rabbit on a bed of coals.
...or just get a Fox body / SN95 and try accelerating out of a bumpy corner... exciting! especially in my 5.0 notchback with the awesome F/R weight distribution! even undulating pavement - lousy patch job - going STRAIGHT at 70MPH can be pretty exciting as well (went a little sideways).
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Old 12/15/05, 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by WBstangGT@December 15, 2005, 12:13 AM
I wonder what these guys will have to say about Ford using the Boss name...

http://www.teamshinoda.com/
Absolutely nothing, since Ford owns the "Boss" name.
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