mach1fever

ok so what happens to the mach that Roushe is developing????? Also that magazine comparo is way off. I ran faster than 13.8 with my mach the first time at the track on the first time I have ever driven at a track... Must have been the auto.

Roger

MustangFanatic

I would disagree. For $35K we SHOULD expect a car capable of stellar handling, outstanding braking and splendid power. Paying $35 large for any car is represents a sizable expenditure for most individuals. Why should anyone accept mediocrity for that price? We should expect and even demand that Ford step up and deliver a car that in every respect upholds the legacy of the Boss Mustang.

Something else to consider is that many of the parts Ford needs to use in this car already exist. The brakes from the GT500 would be outstanding if Ford reduced the curb weight. The 6 spd transmission has been around since the '03 Cobra and would likely only need to have the ratios tweaked to meet the power band of the engine. Some of the exterior styling cues from the GT500 could also be incorporated with a some unique touches for the Boss such as a deeper chin spoiler and an adjustable rear spoiler similar to the original Boss unit. The areas that would need the majority of the development dollars are the powerplant and rear suspension. Interior modifications would not be be extensive with serious sport seats being the biggest area to address.

In short, the expectations being established here are not out of line and are in step with the original car and the competition looming on the horizon.

AFBLUE

After rereading the article located here http://www.stangsunleashed.com/index.php?c...p2_articleid=22,

I don't think its gonna be a 5.4L in the new Boss. I think it's the DOHC 4V 4.6L that our Kevin (05stangkc) mentions here
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?sh...ndpost&p=550694

and here
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?sh...ndpost&p=551170

This engine will be introduced 31 May 07, a year after the GT500, which is about right for a new Boss.

So maybe it will be the "BOSS 281" instead. I'll change my avatar just in case (Used to say BOSS 329)

RandyB

That engine pic looks like the Mach 1 engine with the Marauder intake, which is very similar to the FR500 intake with the dual runners and individual throttle plates on the inside that control the air path between the long and short runners. If that's the case, it will be a nice engine. I have been wondering why they haven't utilized that combo in a Mustang yet.

GTJOHN

Mustangfanatic, I 100% agree with you that Ford should step it up a notch or two, and give us the car we want for the money. But, I doubt its going to happen. All you have to do is look at the Shelby. If Ford isn't spending a significant amount time and resources on making the Shelby lighter and better handling, what makes you think they are going to invest time and resources in a Mustang that cost $11k-$5k cheaper??

Until there is a replacement for the Shelby, all we can hope for is a watered down version of a Shelby as an SE or a slightly upgraded Mustang GT. Yes, we are going to get slightly better handling and H.P., but I doubt its going to be something very significant.

Another reason why I think a lot people have high expectations is because the current Mustang GT already rivals some of the best Mustangs ever made. It handles well and runs 0-60 in 5.1 and 13.5 in the Quarter Mile. It wasn't that long ago, that you had to buy a Cobra to get that kind of performance.

I may change my mind, but currently I refuse to spend $40k for a Shelby. I am waiting for an SE ( Boss or Mach1 ). If the SE matches or beats my friends GTO or future Challenger or Camero. Then I am happy!

bob

Spoken like a true mustang man!


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I think this has alot to do with the car being relatively new. The costs of developing and rolling out the car need to be recouped, with the older cars Ford could manufacture a vehicle that offered substantial value (Mach and Cobra) over the regular Mustang because all that stuff had been paid for. A good example is the current corvette and the ZO6 in particular, this isn't a brand new car, the C6 had a substantial portion of its costs covered by the C5 so when they rolled the new car out, they were able to bring the current Z06 to market with substantial value.

Its gonna take a few years to get that value built into the mustang. If the car remains a strong seller it will happen sooner than later, but I figure that any SE that will offer the kind of value that the Mach or Terminator offered for the old chassis is probably 5 to 10 years away (especially given the current disposition of Ford).

MustangFanatic

If that is indeed the direction that Ford takes then the loyalty, market share and intense aftermaket interest the Mustang has stirred the last several years will be compromised. I can assure you that when the Challenger and/or Camaro arrive in the market, they will be packing all the features we are discussing here for a similar price point and will be poised to steal away a large chunk of the Mustang's sales and aftermarket interest. Taking that path is very short sighted for Ford and will certainly NOT bode well for their long-term success.

The GT500 is the perfect example of why Ford must nail the Boss. Given the hype and interest generated by the GT500 concept and the disappointments that have followed should demonstrate clearly that the market will not accept a diluted product.

Boomer

Until you see it at that price point with all those goodies that are mentioned... you are basing that on pure speculation....

MustangFanatic

Given the specifications recently shown on the Camaro and the likelihood that DC would not underdevelop the Challenger, it's an educated guess certainly. Time will tell what that "challengers" bring to the party but it is definitely going to be a fun ride!!

Boomer

Absolutely.... but at what price.

That is the question...

MustangFanatic

My take on the price issue is that the market won't support mass produced $50K Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers. Sure, a market exists for niche cars like Saleen, Steeda, Roush (and the race-only Cobra R's) and others but a large volume $50K version of any of these cars? Not likely. Therefore, the manufacturers will need to keep the price point reasonable (read: mid to high $30K's) while loading the cars with necessary performance features. We won't have cars equipped with a ton of convenience features but that's not why anyone would buy one.

I still maintain that Ford can provide a Boss with the necessary content at a roughly $35K price point. Much of what they could include has already been developed, brakes, transmission, etc. While we would all love to see a 5.0L Cammer under the hood, that is highly unlikely as well, certification costs would be too high. That leaves a 5.4L N/A as the likely choice and most of those parts currently exist. That would leave only an IRS and some interior/exterior styling as the major areas to address which could easily be accomplished for that price point.

Of course, this is only an academic discussion at this point since the future production of a Boss Mustang is hardly certain. I think the goal of all Mustang enthusiasts should be to convince Ford that a Boss Mustang is a great idea and one Ford should pursue vigorously with the content we all desire. We can debate the price issue if and when the "Boss" becomes a reality.

95SVTCobraVA

IMO

I don't think Ford will ever produce a SE Mustang that will out shine the SVT Cobra/GT 500 for any current MY. The SVT Cobra/GT 500 will be the top dog and has been the top dog Mustang for any MY since 1993.

The BOSS will be a mean machine but it will fit between the GT and the SVT Cobra/GT 500 like the 03 & 04 Mach 1's did.

Now if Ford replaces the SVT Cobra/GT 500 with the BOSS then your talking a different story but I don't think that will happen.

Just remember that Total Performance cost money. More performance more money.

But, hey nothing wrong with speculating

crazyhorse

I seriously doubt you will see IRS in this car until after the GT500 or equivalent gets it.

V10

NOT true.

The Boss 302 was a fully developed car and the BEST handling Mustang ever at the time it was introduced and that includes better handling than the Shelby Mustangs. Ford sold around 8,000 Boss 302s and they rolled of Ford's assembly line. Anyone who ordered a Boss 302 could get one.


On the other hand Ford only sold about 1,300 Boss 429s as NASCAR (at that time) required a minimum of 500 engines / year to be sold in street cars before the engine could be raced. The Boss 429 was not really a fully develped car and was actually not manufactured on a Ford production line. Have made Mustangs were sent out of Ford and turned into Boss 429s. Production was limited and not everyone who wanted a Boss 429 could get one.

bob

If they have a workable IRS, you'll probably see it around 09' if the camaro comes to market, since its a given that the 5th gen f-body is equipped with an IRS.

I doubt you'll see a 5th gen with navigation or heated seats, but it will probably have (and for god knows why its important??????) body color mirrors.

IMO though, I hope Ford has a 400hp/tq motor in the wings to counter the probable 6.0 or 6.2 liter engine the 5th most certainly will have. Even if the vette comes with the same engine, the 5th gen (also roumored to be a porker like the current model mustang) won't be able to touch the vettes perf envelope, making it all the more likely that GM will use the same powerplant in the 5th gen.

4th story down

I dont know how reliable Autoweek's info is, but they are saying V8 5th gen coming with 400hp LS2, One can talk about the nuance of a high reving small displacement in a nimble chasiss all they want, but if brand X is packing a .50 cal to your .22 in an equally nible chasiss its brand X FTW.

Supposedly the next generation of LS engines will be fitted with VVT so there goes any advantage the 3v motors have (aside from maybe having better mid-lift flow on the multi-valve head). The only chance a 4.6 will have would be to go to a 4v DOHC head fitted with VVT on both cams and the cams themselves being ground with much more aggressive valve motion combined with more aggressive ignition tuning (to take advantage of premium fuel).

bob

KarKraft IIRC....?

I've always wondered though, what if Ford would have taken the same engine config, but punched it out to 460 cubes instead of 429 (at the time couldn't they destroke the engines to make them nascar eligble??) and stuffed them in the talledegas?? Would it have still taken a JATO to make them get out of there own way?.

MustangFanatic

Whose to say you won't? I don't think we will see the Boss until at least the '09 model year. We know that the GT500 is scheduled for only a two year production run. In '09 there will be an new SVT model. 2009 is also the timeframe for the Challenger/Camaro introduction so it would stand to reason Ford would offer an IRS in the yet-to-be-named SVT model and in the Boss as well. The SVT model would still carry the big-dog 5.4L SC and more luxury appointments. Consider this potential scenario:

2007 - '08 Mustang line-up:

• V6
• GT
• GT500

2009 Mustang line-up

• V6
• GT
• Boss w/IRS
• SVT Model w/IRS

The only other consideration is when do we see the Mach I? Possibly '08, I don't think Ford would trot out two new and one slightly revised model in the same year but anything is possible.

crazyhorse

Hence the "or equivalent" part of the post. I'm just saying, they will develop it for the SVT first. I'd expect a SE before the SE containing IRS. Whether either one is a BOSS, I (read IMHO) don't think the first one will have IRS before the SVT.

FiaCobra

BINGO !!

rhumb

Can Ford do a fully done (IRS, big brakes, upated interior and styling, DOHC 4V motor, six speed, etc.) for less than $35K. Despite SVT whinings to the contrary, they already have shown such a thing could be done, on a much less amenable platform nonetheless -- basically, the '99, "01 Cobra for, if I recall, around $32. They developed a whole IRS for a chasses never intended for one for a very reasonable price and modest weight gain, apparantly now a lost art to SVT.

Do a similar type program, with maybe a 350-375 4V 4.6 for around $34-35K (give 'em $2k for inflation (profit?) to work with) and voila, a perfect 2007 Boss 281/460. Heck, borrow some body parts (nose) and other already developed pieces (brakes, tranny and gear) off the GT500 to save on develpment costs and bring the price down to $32K again.