There should be zero confusion on my post with the pics. Go back and read the responses up to mine.

My response merely agreed that an IRS is more beneficial than most in this thread are alluding to and that at a minimum it should be an option.
There were comments saying that the '05 handles better than an IRS Cobra.
The pics were in response to these comments merely to prove that I DID experience an '05 on a high speed 15 turn road course. IN MY EXPERIENCE, on THAT day, the '05 could not keep up with my '99 NA Cobra. Nothing more, nothing less. Read what you will into it. That doesn't mean that an '05 could come along and blow my doors off another day. I only go by real world experience .... not magazine racing, internet racing or what "Joe" might have said.

Cars were pushing about the same HP ... mine in 288rwhp. The runs with the '05 were made in group #4 which is the experienced category.
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You didn't answer my question, the pics don't prove anything, all I see is one pic with an '05 in it and another with 2 Cobra's in it, I can't tell from the pics which handles better. The post with the pics also said that the '98 Cobra had trouble keeping up with your's, did it do better than the '05 as well. Do you have any results from the run that shows how the two cars ran?

 

The cops would never shut down the S.R. 'cause they often use that road for "training" purposes themselves. :notnice: :nono: They have been known to decomission a cop car or twelve. I think that once some of them get badges, well, I think everyone can finish the sentence in ther own words.

You sir, are correct, great conversation.

You too rhumb, great input.

 

Once again, rhumb, excellent points. The S197 chassis was designed to accept an IRS and the decision to offer an IRS should not be an issue of cost. Bottom line for Ford: Offer a well engineered IRS in the SVT Cobra as standard equipment with a live axle as an option. The live axle technology is already in place, so offering it as an option will not significantly alter Ford's cost structure. It will, however, broaden the car's appeal and allow "mass customization" which is part of the Mustang's enduring attraction.

 

I guess it all depends on the price...I don't want to see a new Cobra that costs more and yet doesn't have the IRS. However, if they are around the same price they are now, then I would still get one w/o the IRS (granted the live axle is much improved)

 

Optional IRS would be great, but, I don't think that is the issue. Ford would put it there if there weren't a good reason (cost, reliability, wheel hop, whatever). If these problems were worked out, it would probably be standard and maybe (i wouldn't be so sure) offer SRA as an option. Keep in mind, Cobras don't usually have options.

My honest opinion. I think they are putting live axle in the mules/show car just to get something on the road and prove to us they are alive. I think they will continue to work on the IRS until it is perfected. Hopefully, that will be by the time they are released next spring/summer. If they are not in by then, subsequent years will get them.

I am not waiting any longer than I already have. Either will buy the '07 with or without IRS or look at the competition.

 

You bring up an interesting point. Just because the test mules don't have IRS, doesn't mean the production model won't. These could be powertrain only test mules. It'll be interesting to see what develops over the next year.

 

Good point about the mules. I never thought about it that way. Thanks crazyhorse.

 

I'm as uptight as all of you are about this car. I want it now and I want it to be perfect. I don't think SVT will let us down. They haven't taken this much time off and dropped the other cars to put out a half a**ed car. we should know more in the next 34 (or whatever it is) days.

 

Especially given that SVT's plate has been lightened a great deal with the cancellation of the Lightning program. That alone, I would presume, would free up considerable development $ and manpower to really focus on making the Cobra a no-holds-barred, world class performance car.

It's kind of ironic how Ford's competitors, domestic and foreign, are really starting to run with the specialty high-performance division concept that Ford pretty much developed with SVO and SVT (with perhaps apologies to AMG and BMW's M division).

Now Chrysler's making awesome SRT versions out of just about anything that rolls out of the factory gates and GM is really starting to develop some serious and thoroughly engineered performance versions of a lot of their cars too.

Ford? Hmmm, pretty much killed off all their Hi-Po versions, present and future, with the sole exception of the Cobra. And all the talk of half-arsing the Cobra with a live axle and whatnot, gives one pause and reason to wonder about Ford's committment to product excellence. Ford really just needs to bite the bullet, especially on such a high visibility, halo product like the Stang, and give it ALL the hardware -- drivetrain, suspension, brakes, etc. -- to make this the cream of the class. And at a good price as value is just as important as overall quality and engineering excellence.

 

Only archaic if you discount the design of the valvetrain, otherwise they are very much modern high-tech motors.

Can anybody here tell me the last time they've seen a 400+ naturally aspirated 2, 3 or 4 valve 4.6 (and then I suspect it will only be a 4 valve engine)

The hemi has yet to my knowlege proven itself in this respect, however GM's LS engines can produce 500+ HP with sickening ease and the hemi is thought to better the GM engines in airflow capability.

 

The Pics weren't meant to prove anything other than that I was there on that day and ACTUALLY did what I said --(To satisfy the doubters --- worthless without pics, timeslips, vids, etc.) -- raced on track multiple times against an '05.

My wife was clocking my times, an '05 GTs times and a GTs (yes supercar) times. They were this (best times) ..2.5 miles 15 turns

Mine -- 1:57
'05 ---- 2:04
GT supercar --- we won't even go there ...

Hope this give YOU what you were looking for .... My other comments on the IRS stand as said.

 

snkbtn99, what suspension mods do you have on your cobra?
Thanks

 

seriously though, how did the Ford GT do? does it have SRA or IRS?

 

Theres no way the sn-95 outhandles the s197. I would eat up sn's on an autocross with my SVTF. Just a drive around the block in an 05 displays how blatently poor the sn-95 platform is. Its weak, it has a tiny wheelbase(smaller then a civic's or focus), flexes like crazy, and the geometry is awful, especially the roll center and front suspension's terrible bump steer. My 01 had EVERYTHING steeda had to offer and it was no match either, not even close.

And my car gets eaten up by M3's. On the racetrack, the FRPP car held its own and actually beat the M3's. Considering the SVT will have much more power then the FRPP cammer car, its gonna crack me up when the live axle cars with some tuning ride better then performance IRS cars and out run them on the track. Obviously the high profile all-season tires, tall gearing, and soft springs don't do much for a stock stang. I would still bet that a V6 05 would take an 04 gt at an autocross.

As for power, the 4.6 has a displacement disadvantage, build the exact same layout as the 3v, then push it to 7.0L like chevy, and then dyno it. If Ford builds the Hurricane with 6.2-7.0L available, the chevy and dodge shortcomings will become much more obvious. You need to compare the 4.6 to Chevy's 5.3L Vortec, not exactly a powerhouse. I would think if SVT sticks with a live axle, pricing should run right with the GTO, about the price of the last cobra, maybe even cheaper like the GT model is. That also leaves room for another SE higher up on the food chain. The LS gets 500hp with ease only when you wish to pay 70,000 for a chevy. The hurricane supposedly can get 700hp.

 

There's only one problem Kevin: the Hurricane is dead.

 

So was the 4.5 V6 powerstroke that was NEVER going to be built, the F-150 and Exped would NEVER get that engine no way no how. You can now get the non-existant dead to the world 4.5 Powerstroke with the 5 speed Torqueshift in the LCF this spring.

 

Amen!!! :worship:

 

I hope you're right!

 

Well if you look at how the information flows, like 'killing' the V6 Diesel over and over again, or how when 2 years ago every other story was about the 35 Duratec V6, but now that its less then a year away there is NOTHING about it anywhere.... Ford tries not to rock the boat with vehicles it sells NOW. heck the new 06 Explorer is finished and has yet to be shown to anyone anywhere. They give us 'sneak peeks' with the the Sport Trac concept. It seems the closer it gets, the less they want to brag about it, for obvious reasons. The mustang was a tired car so they put that out to grab headlines, the 500 and Fusion were much more secretive, you dont think they finish cars ONE MONTH before unvailing them?

The 05's direction ans styling was 90% settled on in 2001, even the show car in 03 used production based body panels stuck on a lincoln chassis, most likely to hide everything about the new car, like the 3V V8. And the rumors surely flied based on the show car...... Look at the GTR panels and you can see how much of the show car simply bolted right back onto the sn95 platform. I would expect SVT's car to be hidden in there somewhere. By throwing out something totally off the wall like the GTR you can camoflage it in plain site and get a public reaction and opinion. It still goes WAY back to that red car that had what looked like GTR/show car panels and had production spec front end with SVT trademarks like painted mirrors and round fog lights. People act like they are RUSHING to finish the look as we speak. They have the look already, they just real-world test the dynamics on the roads later.

I still put a lot of weight in this pic. more then a year ago people were saying its was a throw away idea because the front didnt match the 03 silver show-cars:


I think its just as odd that there is only ONE fuzzy pic of it. Every other clay or concept car or sketch or styling exercise is clearly depicted. Who knows anything about this one?

No one seems to realize the F150 and Exped are identical platforms up untill the rear frame gets welded in. If they want a Lightning with double wishbone suspension front and rear they only need to bolt a Regular cab flareside body on a 2wd Expy and lower it 2". The wheelbases even match up. Its still rather suspect as to why they grossly overbuilt the F-150(its more then 500lbs heavier then a Titan and is a stronger frame then GM or Dodge's 3500 series trucks) if they planned long term to be content with a 300hp 5.4 when every other maker has more power. Then again, if you were shopping for an F-series and KNEW they were adding 100+hp for the same mileage in a year or two, would you buy it now? And why do it now if the Expy gets redone in 07 and a new motor may be soon be available. Considering the Expy gets beefed up for the XL(which is finished and testing now in camo btw-it was also 'dead' according to the press only a little while ago) and most likely diesel versions in 07/08, I would think SVT would rather work with that hardware. The Hurricane project getting under way was a BIG DEAL in the auto press last year, just like the V6 diesel or the Duratec 35, who also 'died' recently. Ford is out of choices with the modular, it has no options BUT to build a new motor.

I hear 'cost of developing the 3v heads' from nay-sayers to spending money on another motor as well. The 1,000,000 per year F-150s, mustangs use it now, the V10 now uses them, and the next explorer/sport trac V8 will too. I bet the 4.6 stays for the course, the skyscraper-tall 5.4's days are numbered for a low profile, higher displacement more powerfull block that costs the same to manufacture.

 

Hurricane!!! Hurricane!!! Hurricane!!!