I was talking about the stang, I could have worded that better......

 

I love this thread. It reminds me of the time we spent last year wondering if the 2005 Mustang would have IRS or not.

Would I like IRS? Sure. It would solve the problem of the back end hopping when I hit a bump when rounding a corner. It's far superior to SRA on almost every road I've ever driven. . Throw out the skid pad and slalom results. Most of us don't drive like that in the real world.

Would I like heated seats? Yes. It's nice to have toasty buns 6 months out of the year here. It wasn't an issue in Southern California.

Would I like a 5 speed tiptronic tranny? You bet.

Does my Mustang have any of the above? Nope. Did I know that before I got the car? Yep. Did it stop me from buying it? Obviously not.

Ford has been building an affordable built to a price point car for over 40 years. Will we see my hoped for options on a Mustang in the future? Perhaps, but if not, so be it. What I really would like to see is a DHG Mustang.

I really don't think Ford would lose any sales by offering these options, and it certainly wouldn't affect their bottom line very much given the relatively small numbers of Mustangs they build.

Will the Mustang ever be a world class car? It already is, with over 7,000,000 sold and owners clubs all over the world. Is it as good as it could be? I don't think so but time will tell.

Vote with your checkbook.

 

I might be a redneck, knuckle-draggin' troglodyte, but I don't do tabacco, so you'd better take it back!! Okay, all kidding aside, how about this? Since y'all possess such vastly superior intellect, why don't y'all design an IRS for the '05 'stang? Oh, and by the way, you gotta also design the equipment to put it together at the plant, transport it to the loading area, lift it onto the carrier, and also the details of the carrier that hold it up to be installed under the car. Can y'all do that? Or...since AAI already builds a car with an IRS, why don't they just use it with some modifications (just for fitment) and then they could just use the whole IFS and engine (the V6) and viola!!! total independent suspersion for a Mustang!! No, wait, that would be called a PROBE!!!!!! Mustangs are NOT meant to be refined, well-mannered, docile vehicles!!! The American Mustang (the horse, not the car) isn't even considered refined, because it doesn't need to be shoe'd, unlike it more well-heeled cousins. Gimmee a break!! I'll bet y'all even eat y'alls sandwiches with Grey Poupon!!! Git'er done!!! Y'all waffle more the IHOP!!! Even more than Bill Clinton!!! And Robert, you're sooo right, stiffen ANY car, and it'll handle, as long as your kidney's hold out, just ask Bob Bondurant or any other Cobra driver (the real ones), or 350Z Track edition, or any other performance vehicle for that matter, IRS, SRA, or whatever you can stick under there!!! BTW, its such a good arguement y'all use, the one about how every car manufacturer except Ford, and only on its pride and joy, the Mustang, use the IRS, not the primitive log stuck on with a couple of bungees, like the Mustang does. Thats such a good arguement!!! I compliment you on that one!!! And when Ford does wake up and make the Mustang into a "truly world-class" car, well, I'll just have to stop lusting for the newer ones and stick to my classics!!!

Later, John

 

That's in your opinion... And by the way, the Mustang was relatively refined in the '60s when it was introduced, when compared to other cars from other countries. Trouble is, the rest of the world moved ahead in the mid-'70s and the Mustang didn't. Instead, it morphed into the POS Charlie's Angles' car.

If you don't believe me, just look at the SN-95 chassis - it was 25 years old before Ford finally ditched it!!! Their whole corporate philosophy is just out of date, and it's why they're losing more and more market share to the imports with each passing year.

<!--QuoteBegin-hiznherponies@May 28, 2005, 10:38 PM
BTW, its such a good arguement y'all use, the one about how every car manufacturer except Ford, and only on its pride and joy, the Mustang, use the IRS, not the primitive log stuck on with a couple of bungees, like the Mustang does. Thats such a good arguement!!! I compliment you on that one!!!

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I know it's a good argument, thank you. Too bad neither you or anyone else on this board can explain that one, isn't it?

 

How many people would consider the move if Chevy/Pontiac returned the F-Car (Camero/Firebird) with a slightly retro style, put 400-500 ponies in it, made it weigh <3200 lbs, and it had IRS at a similar price-point as the Stang? (If Porsche, Audi, Corvette, etc., can do it technologically, I'm pretty sure others can and drop the price)?

 

^ Not necessarially. Part of the way they do it is expensive materials and technology. Also, from a marketing perspective, Chevy would not being out a near-vette capable car for $15k less -- the vette suddenly would look overpriced and weak.

To bring the price down, you have to cut corners somewhere.

 

Actually, Robert, I and several others have explained it,( even HTT!!), its just NOT cost-effective, i.e. the benefits DO NOT outweigh the costs, but your nose seems to be in the way of seeing that explanation!!!

 

Oh, and this is not meant as a personal attack-fest, just a good, somewhat warm, debate!!! All in good fun!!!!

 

See man, now you're calling anybody who enjoys the benefits of an SRA a neanderthal. Really mature, guy.

You don't have the right to knock someone just because you can't grasp the concept that there are people out there that enjoy other types of suspensions/racing. You don't see anyone who prefers drag racing to road racing "euro ****" or "kittens", do you?

You can't understand that there are other forms of racing that people find pleasurable. Sounds like the trait of very unintelligent person if you ask me. You think the world revolves around you and what you like... it doesn't, buddy.

There's going to be an SRA in the new Shelby. For better or for worse, that's what you're going to get. Don't like it? Mad because your import buddies are going to ride you for not having an IRS suspension? THEN DON'T BUY ONE. Buy a GTO or one of the myraid of sports cars out there that have IRS.

 

See that's where you're wrong. The "world" - as you so accurately put it - DOES revolve around IRS. That's why everybody EXCEPT Ford is using it in their performance/touring cars.

As to the redneck comment, one should only be offended if they fall into that category. Do YOU? If so, I'm sorry to hear that. If not, then you ought not to have anything to be bent out of shape about.

I'm not afraid to call it like it is. Just like HTT isn't afraid to call the pro-IRS community "snobs."

So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

Proud to be a "REDNECK"!!!!! I'm also proud to be a blue-collar working stiff who served in the 1st Gulf War, but thats another story. But that "the world revolves around IRS" comment, thats just stupid!!! Maybe if you meant the Internal Revenue Service, then I might agree with you!!! The only reason why most car manufacturers use it is because its just as easy to put an IRS in a FWD car as it is to put a solid rear beam axle (older Chysler vehicles), so why don't we just make it a FWD and just be done with this debate!!!!

 

We should NOT have to have this argument.

Plain and simple, if Ford realy listened to their customers and wanted to sell even more Mustangs, there would be an IRS option.

 

True!!! On both accounts!!! And, you know, I'd like to have a 6-speed manual in the Lightning, but Ford's bean-counters just aren't the listening kind!!!

 

Guys, this is the first yr on the new platform. Give Ford some time and I'm sure they'll come up with an IRS that will be on future Cobras. heck, they might even have one on the next Cobra. When the car is on the showroom floor, then judge the car. EVERYTHING we hear is mere rumors. Nothing is 100% certain. Remember, this GT500 is a concept car. I heard they'll introduce both Cobra Coupe and Vert Production model at the Detroit NAIAS in Jan '06. Until then, I guess we'll continue to have these wonderful threads.

 

I'm pretty sure they will introduce both at NAIAS B)













But I could be wrong, too!!

 

Interesting logic. But your FWD argument does nothing to explain the GTO, the Corvette, ALL BMWs, ALL Lexus', the new upcoming Toyota Supra, the Nissan 350Z, the Mazda Miata, Ford's OWN GT supercar, the Infiniti G35 (sedan and coupe) , etc, etc, etc...

<!--QuoteBegin-hiznherponies@May 29, 2005, 7:06 PM
...but Ford's bean-counters just aren't the listening kind!!!

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FINALLY, a shred of truth in your posts!

 

yea, unlike yours!!

 

C&D '05 Mustang GT review
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...8&page_number=2
C&D's skidpad of the '05 Mustang was a 0.87g

Edmunds Review:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/...96/page007.html
1st place = '05 Mustang GT
3rd place = 350z track

Edmunds slalom figures:
MGT: 62.5
350z: 63.9

Motortrend Slalom figures:
2005 Mustang GT: 66.1 mph (SRA, $25,000)
2005 Saleen S281: 69.9 mph (RWD, $43,100)

2005 M3 Competition Package: 66.6 mph (IRS, $54,000)
2004 G35 Sport: 65.2mph (IRS, $31,500)
2005 Lancer Evolution RS: 69.3 mph (IRS, AWD, $29,000)
2004 350Z Track: 68.0 mph (IRS, $34,900)
2005 GTO: 63.6 mph (IRS, $34,300)
2005 WRX STI: 69.7 mph (IRS, AWD, $33,700)

Robert -
I completely agree but this rule applies to both IRS and SRA. The Edmunds review blasts the 350z for it's stiff ride and the results are only 1mph better than the MGT in the slalom.

The Motortrend slalom figures show how the MGT and Saleen stack up to some very good IRS competition (EVO, STi, 350z track). The SRA certainly does just as good a job which begs the question. Have you read the reviews? you seem to turn a blind eye to all the results and focus on the method by which Ford is acheiving them. It's like people that critisize the corvette for using leaf springs. Wheather the corvette uses leaf springs or not, it still can handle with the best of them.

If you think IRS is going to match or surpass an EVO, STi, or 350z without the stiff ride then you're soarly mistaken. It would take a massive redesign to get the mustang to handle like an EVO, STi, or 350z without sacrificing ride quality.

It's time you woke up and realized that while IRS would be better, it wouldn't be that much better, and certainly not enough to justify a 12% bump in price IMO (Ford was quoted as saying the IRS adds $5k to the price).

If IRS is a must then spend an extra $5k and get the base corvette ($43k). It's a vastly superior track car to the mustang. Or get a 350z track, EVO MR, STi, GTO....there are plenty of cars out there that offer IRS. If it has to be a Mustang then wait...

 

Dale, great post! But I'm sure we'll hear about how every other car maker is using IRS, so why doesn't Ford.

 

The point is not what a car can do in track slalom, unless that's the only way you want to drive it. Put bumps on the slalom, and lets see how each compares. (Physics says IRS has the potential to do a lot better). The other issue is how does a car drive on real roads (the whole kidney thing).

And Ford is full of poo of they're saying IRS costs $5,000 more. You can't convince the sane that G35 would be $26,000 if it wasn't for that pesky IRS. Or that less than $1,000 in parts is somehow costing them $5,000. If it is, that shows why Ford is having problems.

Lastly, specs aren't facts. Sorry, get out and drive an M3. Specs say, Mustang GT and M3 drive like they are the same car. Get in them both, drive them, and tell me what you think. I did (with the last generation) and it wasn't that close. A pro driver is not the every day driver -- and the balance and feel was completely different, even if the slalom specs or 1/4 mile don't reflect that. I'm hoping that Ford totally changes things. I want them to create a world beater. It looks like they will, in the quarter mile, and on the track -- but not on the road. But I'll wait and see.