Robert

Or, put another way...

...which would you rather drive...

...IRS...



...or buggy axle...


One looks exciting and alive...the other, kinda dead, actually.

rhumb

Yeah, but the bottom one is cheaper, simpler, more reliable, and rides and handles well enough for its, well, less than discerning passengers.

Xader Vartec

Yes your right, the buggy and a 2005 Mustang GT are COMPLETELY compariable in handling.

dke

Actually they aren't comparable in handling; the buggy will be tuned to be softer and more comfortable (less unsprung weight, higher suspension travel, larger wheels, etc.).

hiznherponies

Well, you got me there!!! I guess I'd rather have the buggy!!! As unrefined as I am, I'd never be able to conduct myself in that sports car!!! V10, thank you for pointing out the fact that the first rear-engined cars had yet another type of rear suspension, but I was making a poor attempt to follow y'alls conversation and when the modern, mid-engined cars (Indy, Champ, etc.) where mentioned, thats where I made the mistake of pointing out just how "modern" the IRS-type of suspension is. Oh well, guess I was wrong again, foiled by y'alls superior intellect and opinions!!! At least when I'm wrong, I can admit it, unlike others, guess they have to make up for other "short"-comings!!!

Robert

f1-cobra

I have to agree with this. Comparing my Mustang GT with our Lincoln LS, the LS is noticably smoother than the GT. Granted, the Lincoln is supposed to be more refined, I would have thought that the gap would have been smaller since the S197 was designed while taking cues from the DEW98. With the way the roads are around here (KY is famous for their perfectly smooth roads ), a well designed IRS would make life a lot better. Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all disappointed in the Mustang, as a matter of fact I love it, but, when they do come out with a version that sports an IRS, I will consider very hard about trading up.

Robert

IRS is the hands down winner in this ongoing debate. I'm sure there are people who will endlessly argue the merits of carbureted engines, too, but the reality is that it's OLD technology.

And to the pundits that go on and on and on and on about the Grand Am win...big deal! Stiffen any car's suspension enough, and it will corner...as long as your kidneys hold out, that is. Of course, on a smooth track, that's ok, but on public roads...well, that's another story.

conv_stang

i think the irs is great if it works great not like the cobra 99-04 and is cost effecient(sp) id rather get a well engineered SRA than a cost cutter IRS. i was reading the motor trend with the 05 M3 CSL. and then the 5.0 mustang had a motor trend testing of the saleen and the S/C. the handling numbers for the 42k base saleen walked all over the 53k M3 CSL

heres the numbers

05 Saleen 05 M3 CSL
Cost 42,000 53,000

0-60 5.6 5.5
1/4 mile 13.5 13.3
lateral G .97 .94
Slalom 69.9 64.4
i think thats pretty good for a sorry SRA with some tuning. they didnt have the complete munbers for the S/C but it ran 12.8 while spinning through the first two gears. and i would guess the rest of the numbers are better than the base model. and the price on the S/C was 53k

moc1976

Nick, how dare you try to come on here and say that a SRA can outperform the hands down winner - IRS

Nick, your point is well taken, and that's the part that keeps getting overlooked by the "snobs". They keep trying to turn this into a "which is better" debate, and people, including myselft, have stated several times, that all things equal, usually IRS is better. But, do you really want a "quickie job" IRS, thrown in on the Cobra to get it to market. Or, do you want to build on the SRA from the GT and V6, improve it, and end up with a very good handling SRA that saves money and weight? Seems like an obvious business decision to me. But, MAYBE, we should wait and see how the Shelby performs before lambasting Ford's decision to put a SRA in it? I don't know maybe???????

And comparing the SRA to an old buggy, that's a good one, that really drives your IRS point home! Afterall, I'm sure the SRA in the Mustang is closely related to that design :notnice:

Robert

Actually, it is. It uses the same basic principles of physics, hence its limitations. And, as I said above, in case it was missed:

Stiffen any car's [SRA] suspension enough, and it will corner...as long as your kidneys hold out, that is. Of course, on a smooth track, that's ok, but on public roads...well, that's another story.

OBleedingMe

Just to clarify something - not all race tracks are smooth. In fact, almost none of them are smooth, especially road courses. They have many notorious bumps. Even ovals and irregular shaped tracks like Daytona (Turn 4), Darlington (the whole darn track, lol) and Pocono (Tunnel Turn) have some very harsh bumps.

This is the most pointless debate I have ever taken part in... we're arguing over something that's not even built yet. Are we going to act like five year olds and bicker about this right up to the day the car is finally produced?

twincamfxd

I have ridden in both. The difference is, chunks of metal left on the road vs. a car speeding away. Which would you prefer? All of the broken IRS on '03-'04 cobras is hardly opinion. I dont care what anyone says, the average driver will not see a handling difference, and a 04 cobra still rides like a sportscar. If you want it to ride like a cadillac, go buy a cadillac.

1 COBRA

:worship:

That's wonderful Columbus! Ford should follow your advice and do test rides from now on. The improvement on knowledge will be amazing, not to mention how much dough they'll save. Make sure you put a patent on that thought

twincamfxd

Look, I have owned 3 mustangs, and have been wrenching on them for years before that. So I never bought an 03-04 cobra, so what? Doesent mean I dont know. I have 3 close friends with them, and two of them have had IRS problems. (one of the reasons I never bought one) To be honest, I was excited to hear about Ford putting IRS in the cobra, until I saw how much trouble they were, and figured out that you cant run a straight track with one. I will try to find the vid of my buddies 04 breaking right off the line. How embarrasing is that? He got beat by a 14 second honda. My whole point is, if they cant make one that doesent break, leak, and have excessive wheel hop, then they shouldent put it out. That is probably why thay didnt do it. Face the facts, there are alot more mustangs at the drag strip than on a road track.

dke

The thing is he was beaten by a 14 second honda WITH IRS. Everyone else can make IRS. So all that you're saying is that Ford made a lame implementation in the last Cobra. That says nothing about whether the next/current Cobra should have a GOOD IRS. No one is advocating putting a piece of kaka in there, spot welded to the frame. But every other manufacturer can manage to put an IRS in that doesn't fall off on the track. So your point is moot.

Robert

I completely agree. I'm also sick of the "either/or" argument from these people. Either you want it to ride like a Mustang - or you want it to ride like a Cadillac. Over and over again they employ the "Cadillac" argument, as if the only cars in the world are North American. And ALL North American brands are behind the eight ball. As you assert, he leaves out BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Honda, Toyota, etc, etc, etc, etc...

And guess what, they have ALL managed to successfully use IRS. I guess Ford is too lazy, dumb or cheap.

And I'll say it a THIRD time, in case you missed it: Stiffen any car's [SRA] suspension enough, and it will corner...as long as your kidneys hold out, that is. Of course, on a smooth track, that's ok, but on public roads...well, that's another story.

Robert

The thing is, Ford is quite capable of doing a first class sports car with IRS: it's called the GT. Unfortunately, they seem to think that most Mustang buyers are knuckle-dragging, tobacco-spitting, red neck troglodytes that just want to go fast in a straight line as cheaply as possible.

Not all of us are, Ford.

twincamfxd

Honda's IRS isent on the drive axle, and we are talking about a 450+ hp car here. He was beat because he only made it 20' down the track, and had to be towed off. I dont see a problem with an optional IRS as long as the "log" is still available as a cheaper option. I dont want to pay the IRS price, and have to change it out. Sorry if I offended anyone, I am a drag racer. SRA is the best choice for the strip, hands down. Besides, do you guys honestly think Ford is not going to make it? I only hope it is an option.

conv_stang

id say if they can offer an IRS for those who want it. or vise versa. heck make the irs standard and the SRA an option to help make up for the costs or something. dang it i have my cake and i want to eat it too! :bang: and how many hondas w/ stock drive shafts can make it down the strip w/ 450+ hp????