First Shelby Cobra GT500 Photo!
3/24/05, 04:49 PM
#367
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I had to finally register to this site, just to make a few comments. After months of looking at it simply to keep abreast of current information regarding the '05's, the introduction of this thread containing the latest news, pics and some comments about the Shelby Cobra styling has me shaking my head in a bit of disbelief. First...I was a bit surprised that it took as many pages as it did, before someone dragged a Mustang II into the thread. More suprising, was that they made a totally innacurate styling comparison observation and statement about them, to go along with their unwarrented comment.
Negative comments about the Mustang II's aside....I am bewildered that after they were made, noone else commented on the obvious visual similarities the new Shelby actually does have with the old fastback II's....no matter how much some of you may hate them. While there's no argument that the recessed and slanted grill is reminiscent of (and patterned after) the '67/'68 Shelby era cars....it's hard to deny the general shape of it being almost identical to that of a II at the same time. Similar refence could/should be said about the ducktail spoiler in the rear. The most significant visual changes the new Shelby has over the '05 GT's, are the very items it probably has most in common with the II! Personally, I actually prefer the current GT front end styling, to that of the Shelby. Something about the Shelby nose looks awkward from certain angles in comparison to the current GT.
And then there's those stripes....true, in terms of horsepower, the Cobra II's that wore them were undeserving in the eyes of those that felt they shouldn't be put on cars that had less than 300 horsepower. Yet, this tape stripe treatment that everyone loves to bash and laugh at on the II's, (copyied from the original Shelby Mustangs) is something that many current GT owners feel is a birthright of sorts on the '05's. What hipocrisy...and often from those most misinformed about II's in the first place!
Don't get me wrong... I like the retro '05s...and the new Shelby too. But, perhaps a big reason why, is because of the subtle and obvious similarities to the II's, as well as the first gen cars.
Negative comments about the Mustang II's aside....I am bewildered that after they were made, noone else commented on the obvious visual similarities the new Shelby actually does have with the old fastback II's....no matter how much some of you may hate them. While there's no argument that the recessed and slanted grill is reminiscent of (and patterned after) the '67/'68 Shelby era cars....it's hard to deny the general shape of it being almost identical to that of a II at the same time. Similar refence could/should be said about the ducktail spoiler in the rear. The most significant visual changes the new Shelby has over the '05 GT's, are the very items it probably has most in common with the II! Personally, I actually prefer the current GT front end styling, to that of the Shelby. Something about the Shelby nose looks awkward from certain angles in comparison to the current GT.
And then there's those stripes....true, in terms of horsepower, the Cobra II's that wore them were undeserving in the eyes of those that felt they shouldn't be put on cars that had less than 300 horsepower. Yet, this tape stripe treatment that everyone loves to bash and laugh at on the II's, (copyied from the original Shelby Mustangs) is something that many current GT owners feel is a birthright of sorts on the '05's. What hipocrisy...and often from those most misinformed about II's in the first place!
Don't get me wrong... I like the retro '05s...and the new Shelby too. But, perhaps a big reason why, is because of the subtle and obvious similarities to the II's, as well as the first gen cars.
3/24/05, 08:42 PM
#368
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Originally posted by Jalapeno1@March 24, 2005, 7:46 AM
This smilie is doing the same thing my wife did when I told her I'm getting one!
This smilie is doing the same thing my wife did when I told her I'm getting one!
3/25/05, 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by LXXVI-II@March 24, 2005, 5:52 PM
I had to finally register to this site, just to make a few comments. After months of looking at it simply to keep abreast of current information regarding the '05's, the introduction of this thread containing the latest news, pics and some comments about the Shelby Cobra styling has me shaking my head in a bit of disbelief. First...I was a bit surprised that it took as many pages as it did, before someone dragged a Mustang II into the thread. More suprising, was that they made a totally innacurate styling comparison observation and statement about them, to go along with their unwarrented comment.
Negative comments about the Mustang II's aside....I am bewildered that after they were made, noone else commented on the obvious visual similarities the new Shelby actually does have with the old fastback II's....no matter how much some of you may hate them. While there's no argument that the recessed and slanted grill is reminiscent of (and patterned after) the '67/'68 Shelby era cars....it's hard to deny the general shape of it being almost identical to that of a II at the same time. Similar refence could/should be said about the ducktail spoiler in the rear. The most significant visual changes the new Shelby has over the '05 GT's, are the very items it probably has most in common with the II! Personally, I actually prefer the current GT front end styling, to that of the Shelby. Something about the Shelby nose looks awkward from certain angles in comparison to the current GT.
And then there's those stripes....true, in terms of horsepower, the Cobra II's that wore them were undeserving in the eyes of those that felt they shouldn't be put on cars that had less than 300 horsepower. Yet, this tape stripe treatment that everyone loves to bash and laugh at on the II's, (copyied from the original Shelby Mustangs) is something that many current GT owners feel is a birthright of sorts on the '05's. What hipocrisy...and often from those most misinformed about II's in the first place!
Don't get me wrong... I like the retro '05s...and the new Shelby too. But, perhaps a big reason why, is because of the subtle and obvious similarities to the II's, as well as the first gen cars.
I had to finally register to this site, just to make a few comments. After months of looking at it simply to keep abreast of current information regarding the '05's, the introduction of this thread containing the latest news, pics and some comments about the Shelby Cobra styling has me shaking my head in a bit of disbelief. First...I was a bit surprised that it took as many pages as it did, before someone dragged a Mustang II into the thread. More suprising, was that they made a totally innacurate styling comparison observation and statement about them, to go along with their unwarrented comment.
Negative comments about the Mustang II's aside....I am bewildered that after they were made, noone else commented on the obvious visual similarities the new Shelby actually does have with the old fastback II's....no matter how much some of you may hate them. While there's no argument that the recessed and slanted grill is reminiscent of (and patterned after) the '67/'68 Shelby era cars....it's hard to deny the general shape of it being almost identical to that of a II at the same time. Similar refence could/should be said about the ducktail spoiler in the rear. The most significant visual changes the new Shelby has over the '05 GT's, are the very items it probably has most in common with the II! Personally, I actually prefer the current GT front end styling, to that of the Shelby. Something about the Shelby nose looks awkward from certain angles in comparison to the current GT.
And then there's those stripes....true, in terms of horsepower, the Cobra II's that wore them were undeserving in the eyes of those that felt they shouldn't be put on cars that had less than 300 horsepower. Yet, this tape stripe treatment that everyone loves to bash and laugh at on the II's, (copyied from the original Shelby Mustangs) is something that many current GT owners feel is a birthright of sorts on the '05's. What hipocrisy...and often from those most misinformed about II's in the first place!
Don't get me wrong... I like the retro '05s...and the new Shelby too. But, perhaps a big reason why, is because of the subtle and obvious similarities to the II's, as well as the first gen cars.
The styling cues you are referring to as coming from the Mustang II for the new Shelby, were also taken from the '60's cars for the II's. They are the design cues that point to a car being a Mustang. To owe them all to the Mustang II and ignore the original source doesn't make alot of sense.
For the record, i don't think the new car resembles the II very much at all. And for my part (and opinion) that is a very good thing.
By the way, saying the Cobra II was undeserving of the Cobra name (or Shelby inspired stripes) because it had less than 300 horsepower is being overly generous to the Cobra II. Those cars were lucky to have a true 100 to 150hp.
3/25/05, 05:15 PM
#371
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Your foregone conclusions derived from my post, indicate to me that you either didn't read or comprehend it very well, or simply choose to twist it around in order to make your own point to better enable you to voice your opinion at the same time. That's OK, I don't take offense to opinions (especially about one's personal taste in cars)...just occasionally to the basis by which they are often formed. Since I'm not sure exactly what that is/was in your case, I won't be as harsh on you as I might otherwise! I really more concerned about keeping on topic.
Now, responding directly to your post, and where I feel you didn't really get it...
I didn't say the Shelby owes "more" of it's looks to the II...only that there are obvious and undeniable similarities. Nor did I infer the II's were the first to incorporate the styling cues that undeniably "point to the car being (perceived as) a Mustang."
I didn't think it was necessary to note the II's styling was derived from that of the original cars. I would assume that anyone reading this forum is well aware of that, or should be. Trust me, I am. And I did mention that the grille in particular was "reminiscent of" and "patterned after" the '67-'68 era cars. I did not "ignore" the "original" source in any way.
My point was that the visual items most enthusiasts of the new Mustangs are raving about on the new Shelby, (ie: stripes, ducktail spoiler, distinctly trapazoid grille, single headlights, front spoiler, a snake emblem, etc )....are items that would refute the validity of such statements made by others, that claim the II's were ugly, etc., and didn't look like Mustangs. Why these items were/are considered ugly on the II's but not this new car, is anyone's guess.
For you to acknowledge the II bears all the important Mustang styling cues from the 60's, and yet shares no resemblance to the '05 or the new Shelby at the same time, is a huge contradiction. "And for my part (and my opinion)"...the II probably bears more visual resemblance to the original cars, than any Mustang previous to the '05's, since 1979.
As for the horsepower... again, I didn't claim the II's had 300 at all. Being "generous" to the Cobra II in this regard, wasn't even the point of what I said. Rather than restate it, I'd prefer you reread it, and substitute any lesser number you like. Point is, there would have been whiners about the Cobra II wearing stripes even if it had 200 horsepower...because it was a downgrade from previous years output, and the 271 hp of the K code engine cars of the first Shelby Mustangs.
Yet, to reiterate anyway....it seems that many owners of the new '05's suddenly feel that such stripe packages are now the hot ticket, on account of the retro stying and some extra ponies under the hood. Yes, the Cobra II's biggest mistake was the inclusion of the Cobra name in its stripe package without having the pure power of its predecessor to go with it. But, that aside... a 3dr II with its racing stripes sure looks pure Mustang to me. And they always "seemed right" on those cars shape, as opposed to later Mustang models that followed.
The II was an all new and technologically superior car at the time, to the original in many ways....that with the exception of not providing a high horsepower V-8, revived the original styling theme of the Mustang. To me, half the hoopla around the new '05 is simply because Ford retro'd this car once again after a long hiatus. One big difference is....this time it has a 30+ years worth of nostalgia craving fans to go with it. It's only the real performance buffs and also some others with bigger ego's than minds, that think it's always got to be just about power.
Now, responding directly to your post, and where I feel you didn't really get it...
I didn't say the Shelby owes "more" of it's looks to the II...only that there are obvious and undeniable similarities. Nor did I infer the II's were the first to incorporate the styling cues that undeniably "point to the car being (perceived as) a Mustang."
I didn't think it was necessary to note the II's styling was derived from that of the original cars. I would assume that anyone reading this forum is well aware of that, or should be. Trust me, I am. And I did mention that the grille in particular was "reminiscent of" and "patterned after" the '67-'68 era cars. I did not "ignore" the "original" source in any way.
My point was that the visual items most enthusiasts of the new Mustangs are raving about on the new Shelby, (ie: stripes, ducktail spoiler, distinctly trapazoid grille, single headlights, front spoiler, a snake emblem, etc )....are items that would refute the validity of such statements made by others, that claim the II's were ugly, etc., and didn't look like Mustangs. Why these items were/are considered ugly on the II's but not this new car, is anyone's guess.
For you to acknowledge the II bears all the important Mustang styling cues from the 60's, and yet shares no resemblance to the '05 or the new Shelby at the same time, is a huge contradiction. "And for my part (and my opinion)"...the II probably bears more visual resemblance to the original cars, than any Mustang previous to the '05's, since 1979.
As for the horsepower... again, I didn't claim the II's had 300 at all. Being "generous" to the Cobra II in this regard, wasn't even the point of what I said. Rather than restate it, I'd prefer you reread it, and substitute any lesser number you like. Point is, there would have been whiners about the Cobra II wearing stripes even if it had 200 horsepower...because it was a downgrade from previous years output, and the 271 hp of the K code engine cars of the first Shelby Mustangs.
Yet, to reiterate anyway....it seems that many owners of the new '05's suddenly feel that such stripe packages are now the hot ticket, on account of the retro stying and some extra ponies under the hood. Yes, the Cobra II's biggest mistake was the inclusion of the Cobra name in its stripe package without having the pure power of its predecessor to go with it. But, that aside... a 3dr II with its racing stripes sure looks pure Mustang to me. And they always "seemed right" on those cars shape, as opposed to later Mustang models that followed.
The II was an all new and technologically superior car at the time, to the original in many ways....that with the exception of not providing a high horsepower V-8, revived the original styling theme of the Mustang. To me, half the hoopla around the new '05 is simply because Ford retro'd this car once again after a long hiatus. One big difference is....this time it has a 30+ years worth of nostalgia craving fans to go with it. It's only the real performance buffs and also some others with bigger ego's than minds, that think it's always got to be just about power.
3/25/05, 10:03 PM
#372
Team Mustang Source
The II was an OK car. It wasn't something to rewrite history books over. It was weak powerwise, bland stylingwise and ugly lookswise. I don't dis'em, but, get over it. If you want to justify their existence, join the II forum. Otherwise, leave it out of this one. It is nowhere near the car this one is.
3/25/05, 10:18 PM
#373
Dethroned Nascar Guru
I find that a lot of people attack the Cobra II for being called a "Cobra", but you here very little negativity about the the 79-81 "Cobras".
Little bit of trivia I learned while searching for a picture of a 79-81 Cobra package, apparently Canadian Mustang GTs from 1984-1992 were known as Cobra GTs (see http://www.mustanggt.org/canadiangt/canadiangt.htm for more info)
Little bit of trivia I learned while searching for a picture of a 79-81 Cobra package, apparently Canadian Mustang GTs from 1984-1992 were known as Cobra GTs (see http://www.mustanggt.org/canadiangt/canadiangt.htm for more info)
3/25/05, 10:33 PM
#374
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Originally posted by LXXVI-II@March 25, 2005, 6:18 PM
I won't be as harsh on you as I might otherwise!
I won't be as harsh on you as I might otherwise!
I won't respond to your obvious bias toward the Mustang II's. I also won't qualify your arguments with much of a response.
You apparently want some measure of respect paid to the Mustang II and its link to the current Mustang. I will give the Mustang II respect for one thing: It kept the Mustang alive through the darkest time in automotive history. That is the beginning and end of my respect for it.
Now, if i didn't have as much respect as i do for this forum and its moderators, i would really give you my opinions on the Mustang II as a stand alone car. And, not as a link in the chain that connects one era of great Mustangs to another. However, i know the mods here would consider that bashing, so i will keep it mainly to myself.
Now, i apologize completely to the mods for getting this far off topic. And, i won't respond in this thread to anymore "discussion" of the Mustang II and its dubious "similarities" with the new Shelby GT500. If you are dying to argue with people over how great the II's were, i am sure you will have no problem finding plenty of people to argue with. So, good day to you, and i hope you find your way back to the correct section of the forum.
Back to the real topic: the 2007 Shelby Cobra GT500
3/26/05, 06:01 AM
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Originally posted by crazyhorse@March 25, 2005, 11:06 PM
The II was an OK car. It wasn't something to rewrite history books over. It was weak powerwise, bland stylingwise and ugly lookswise. I don't dis'em, but, get over it. If you want to justify their existence, join the II forum. Otherwise, leave it out of this one. It is nowhere near the car this one is.
The II was an OK car. It wasn't something to rewrite history books over. It was weak powerwise, bland stylingwise and ugly lookswise. I don't dis'em, but, get over it. If you want to justify their existence, join the II forum. Otherwise, leave it out of this one. It is nowhere near the car this one is.
You are free to scroll past any posts that don't meet your criteria of being worthy of inclusion in a discussion.
Since so many people that are excited about the current '05's and new Shelby enjoy pointing out similarities to the older classic models, and are so because of the same, there should be no reason for anyone to take offense to someone doing the same with a II when it is clear to see.
I can post to any forum I choose. Many that post here don't even own '05's...and none of you yet own a new Shelby. As such, it kills me that some of you are so defensive and about it. Just because some members may have different opinions and perspectives about things in forums, doesn't mean that they need to stick to the one that is dedicated to the type of car they might own.
You can spend all day posting and holdng hands here among your peers, while daydreaming about a car you would like to own (but might never) while singing Kumbaya to your moderators, if that's what makes you happy and feel secure. Sorry, but that's just a little too PC for me. Personally, I think some here would benefit more from a little training in coping and tactfully dealing with adversity in online forums.
3/26/05, 06:25 AM
#376
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Originally posted by LXXVI-II+March 26, 2005, 7:04 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LXXVI-II @ March 26, 2005, 7:04 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-crazyhorse@March 25, 2005, 11:06 PM
The II was an OK car. It wasn't something to rewrite history books over. It was weak powerwise, bland stylingwise and ugly lookswise. I don't dis'em, but, get over it. If you want to justify their existence, join the II forum. Otherwise, leave it out of this one. It is nowhere near the car this one is.
The II was an OK car. It wasn't something to rewrite history books over. It was weak powerwise, bland stylingwise and ugly lookswise. I don't dis'em, but, get over it. If you want to justify their existence, join the II forum. Otherwise, leave it out of this one. It is nowhere near the car this one is.
You are free to scroll past any posts that don't meet your criteria of being worthy of inclusion in a discussion.
Since so many people that are excited about the current '05's and new Shelby enjoy pointing out similarities to the older classic models, and are so because of the same, there should be no reason for anyone to take offense to someone doing the same with a II when it is clear to see.
I can post to any forum I choose. Many that post here don't even own '05's...and none of you yet own a new Shelby. As such, it kills me that some of you are so defensive and about it. Just because some members may have different opinions and perspectives about things in forums, doesn't mean that they need to stick to the one that is dedicated to the type of car they might own.
You can spend all day posting and holdng hands here among your peers, while daydreaming about a car you would like to own (but might never) while singing Kumbaya to your moderators, if that's what makes you happy and feel secure. Sorry, but that's just a little too PC for me. Personally, I think some here would benefit more from a little training in coping and tactfully dealing with adversity in online forums.
[/b][/quote]
Holy crapcakes, dude! Calling others defensive is a little like the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?
Lemmie guess, you're a Mustang II owner...? Why else would you so vehemently feel the need to trumpet the "merits" <cough><gasp> of that particular era of Mustang.
3/26/05, 06:27 AM
#377
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Originally posted by 97RedSnake+March 25, 2005, 11:36 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(97RedSnake @ March 25, 2005, 11:36 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-LXXVI-II@March 25, 2005, 6:18 PM
I won't be as harsh on you as I might otherwise!
I won't be as harsh on you as I might otherwise!
I won't respond to your obvious bias toward the Mustang II's. I also won't qualify your arguments with much of a response.
You apparently want some measure of respect paid to the Mustang II and its link to the current Mustang. I will give the Mustang II respect for one thing: It kept the Mustang alive through the darkest time in automotive history. That is the beginning and end of my respect for it.
Now, if I didn't have as much respect as i do for this forum and its moderators, i would really give you my opinions on the Mustang II as a stand alone car. And, not as a link in the chain that connects one era of great Mustangs to another. However, i know the mods here would consider that bashing, so i will keep it mainly to myself.
Now, I apologize completely to the mods for getting this far off topic. And, i won't respond in this thread to anymore "discussion" of the Mustang II and its dubious "similarities" with the new Shelby GT500. If you are dying to argue with people over how great the II's were, i am sure you will have no problem finding plenty of people to argue with. So, good day to you, and i hope you find your way back to the correct section of the forum.
Back to the real topic: the 2007 Shelby Cobra GT500
[/b][/quote]
Somehow I expected your thin skin to be unable to deal with a little sarcasm. And it's clear by your choice to cut and run now, that you are not the type to engage (or have the ablilitiy) in having discussions that require making an attempt to acknowledge an issue from a different perspective.
My "bias" toward II's had no bearing on the comments in my initial post. Your "bias" to the GT500 and general dislike for II's is far more prevelent in your responses. I didn't make my initial post to this forum extolling the virtues of a II, in an attempt to get respect for them from people like you or anyone else. Your interperatation of my intent is entirely incorrect.
Your arrogance is only exceeded by your desire to stink up to the moderators of this site. No wonder so many current Mustang owners feel guys like you are a bunch of head cases with huge egos.
3/26/05, 06:29 AM
#378
Team Mustang Source
I owned a '79 Cobra. If I want to discuss it, I go to the fox forum.
My point was this is a Shelby forum and you are talking about your love of Mustang IIs. There is a forum for that. Stating you think it is similar in styling is OK, but, personally trying to save the world from II hate belongs over in that forum.
My point was this is a Shelby forum and you are talking about your love of Mustang IIs. There is a forum for that. Stating you think it is similar in styling is OK, but, personally trying to save the world from II hate belongs over in that forum.
3/26/05, 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by LXXVI-II+March 26, 2005, 7:30 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LXXVI-II @ March 26, 2005, 7:30 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Oh, thank god! Whew, that was a close one! I'm so glad you took it easy on me.
I won't respond to your obvious bias toward the Mustang II's. I also won't qualify your arguments with much of a response.
You apparently want some measure of respect paid to the Mustang II and its link to the current Mustang. I will give the Mustang II respect for one thing: It kept the Mustang alive through the darkest time in automotive history. That is the beginning and end of my respect for it.
Now, if I didn't have as much respect as i do for this forum and its moderators, i would really give you my opinions on the Mustang II as a stand alone car. And, not as a link in the chain that connects one era of great Mustangs to another. However, i know the mods here would consider that bashing, so i will keep it mainly to myself.
Now, I apologize completely to the mods for getting this far off topic. And, i won't respond in this thread to anymore "discussion" of the Mustang II and its dubious "similarities" with the new Shelby GT500. If you are dying to argue with people over how great the II's were, i am sure you will have no problem finding plenty of people to argue with. So, good day to you, and i hope you find your way back to the correct section of the forum.
Back to the real topic: the 2007 Shelby Cobra GT500
Originally posted by 97RedSnake@March 25, 2005, 11:36 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-LXXVI-II
<!--QuoteBegin-LXXVI-II
Oh, thank god! Whew, that was a close one! I'm so glad you took it easy on me.
I won't respond to your obvious bias toward the Mustang II's. I also won't qualify your arguments with much of a response.
You apparently want some measure of respect paid to the Mustang II and its link to the current Mustang. I will give the Mustang II respect for one thing: It kept the Mustang alive through the darkest time in automotive history. That is the beginning and end of my respect for it.
Now, if I didn't have as much respect as i do for this forum and its moderators, i would really give you my opinions on the Mustang II as a stand alone car. And, not as a link in the chain that connects one era of great Mustangs to another. However, i know the mods here would consider that bashing, so i will keep it mainly to myself.
Now, I apologize completely to the mods for getting this far off topic. And, i won't respond in this thread to anymore "discussion" of the Mustang II and its dubious "similarities" with the new Shelby GT500. If you are dying to argue with people over how great the II's were, i am sure you will have no problem finding plenty of people to argue with. So, good day to you, and i hope you find your way back to the correct section of the forum.
Back to the real topic: the 2007 Shelby Cobra GT500
My "bias" toward II's had no bearing on the comments in my initial post. Your "bias" to the GT500 and general dislike for II's is far more prevelent in your responses. I didn't make my initial post to this forum extolling the virtues of a II, in an attempt to get respect for them from people like you or anyone else. Your interperatation of my intent is entirely incorrect.
Your arrogance is only exceeded by your desire to stink up to the moderators of this site. No wonder so many current Mustang owners feel guys like you are a bunch of head cases with huge egos.
[/b][/quote]
Hey, troll, over here!
3/26/05, 06:36 AM
#380
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Too bad you didn't just continue being a lurker and refrain from posting at all....LOL....Nobody cares about the II's on this thread (supposed to be about the new Shelby), or many of the others for that matter. Do us all a favor and take your 5th post, and any other future lengthy off topic blabberings somewhere else.....Somebody please pull out a dunce cap and plant it on his head to warn others in advance.....take care.....bye bye now.....
John
P.S. Gotta love the ignore user feature....thanks Brad!
muahahaha
John
P.S. Gotta love the ignore user feature....thanks Brad!
muahahaha