Mustang V6 versus Mini?
8/4/05, 09:49 AM
#81
Bullitt Member
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But the ridgeline IS the point. Ford did exactly what they needed to do short of belting out a few extra cars. Even that is nothing bad because demand will remain.
The ridgeline is a perfect example of what I am sumerizing, and to so easilly cast it aside with such whimsical carelessness, overlooks its importance.
The ridgeline is competing against LOTS of other midsized trucks. Honda included lots of options and standard features in the truck to differentiate it from the crowd. In so doing, they made it cost more than the competition. That means Honda was banking on customers WANTING those extra features enough to be willing to pay the extra dollar. They weren't willing to spend 30k on the Honda product when the toyota is running 16-20. They overpriced their market, and because of it, Toyota will outsell them and put their product underground. Pricing is extremely important, and anytime you offer MORE of something, the cost goes up.
The Mustang is EXACTLY where Ford and the buying public want it to be. Anything more or less would have disrupted the balance. They didn't miss an oportunity. That's the point. They did EXACTLY what they needed to do in order for this car to be a success - and it is. As time goes on, they will add to the picture to keep intrest in the vehicle. Right now though, they are selling as strongly as they need the car to sell.
Ford hasn't failed at their target market. They are making other autmakers look stupid for not supplying competition. They are also selling more units from a 2 door sportscar than a 4 door sedan. Sports cars are traditionally not big sellers. The fact that this one is gaining world wide attention and selling as hotly as it is is cause to take note.
It's not Ford that needs to look out... it's everyone else. They'd better get to market quick with some killer product, or the Mustang is going to soke up (and already has to some extent) potential buyers that want this type of car.
The ridgeline is a perfect example of what I am sumerizing, and to so easilly cast it aside with such whimsical carelessness, overlooks its importance.
The ridgeline is competing against LOTS of other midsized trucks. Honda included lots of options and standard features in the truck to differentiate it from the crowd. In so doing, they made it cost more than the competition. That means Honda was banking on customers WANTING those extra features enough to be willing to pay the extra dollar. They weren't willing to spend 30k on the Honda product when the toyota is running 16-20. They overpriced their market, and because of it, Toyota will outsell them and put their product underground. Pricing is extremely important, and anytime you offer MORE of something, the cost goes up.
The Mustang is EXACTLY where Ford and the buying public want it to be. Anything more or less would have disrupted the balance. They didn't miss an oportunity. That's the point. They did EXACTLY what they needed to do in order for this car to be a success - and it is. As time goes on, they will add to the picture to keep intrest in the vehicle. Right now though, they are selling as strongly as they need the car to sell.
Ford hasn't failed at their target market. They are making other autmakers look stupid for not supplying competition. They are also selling more units from a 2 door sportscar than a 4 door sedan. Sports cars are traditionally not big sellers. The fact that this one is gaining world wide attention and selling as hotly as it is is cause to take note.
It's not Ford that needs to look out... it's everyone else. They'd better get to market quick with some killer product, or the Mustang is going to soke up (and already has to some extent) potential buyers that want this type of car.
8/4/05, 10:09 AM
#82
GT Member
Join Date: July 3, 2005
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Back to the origional topic lets take a look at what Mustang does have...
The only RWD American sports coupe under 20K.
300Hp under 30K.
40 years of brand recognition.
The major interior options covered, cloth, leather and brushed aluminum upgrade.
Three audio options.
Better braking and handling over the previous model.
More interior room over previous model.
Classic American styling.
Coupe, convertible, in both V6 and V8 trim.
10 available exterior colors, three interior colors.
2 choices of wheels for each model.
Side curtain airbags.
4 wheel disk brakes with available ABS and Traction Control.
What other features you would like to have as optional? No sarcasm there truly asking this time.
The only RWD American sports coupe under 20K.
300Hp under 30K.
40 years of brand recognition.
The major interior options covered, cloth, leather and brushed aluminum upgrade.
Three audio options.
Better braking and handling over the previous model.
More interior room over previous model.
Classic American styling.
Coupe, convertible, in both V6 and V8 trim.
10 available exterior colors, three interior colors.
2 choices of wheels for each model.
Side curtain airbags.
4 wheel disk brakes with available ABS and Traction Control.
What other features you would like to have as optional? No sarcasm there truly asking this time.
8/4/05, 10:32 AM
#83
GT Member
Join Date: July 3, 2005
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ford's competition is not with the Mustang. There biggest competition is in the mid sized sedan segment. But take a look at the new 500 and Mercury Montego. They have a lot of things new to Ford America. AWD, CVT directly targeted at Nissan Altima, Maxima and Toyota Camry, Avalon. What else can Ford work on? Their full size segment. The Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis could be tweaked a little bit. Those cars need to have a V6 option. They could recieve a small revamp and the addition of a Mustang derived 4.0L V6 and SR555 trans in both V8 and V6 versions. Put some heat on the Charger, 300c segment.
The biggest thing that Ford can improve is marketing. Like I said before they need cooler comercials that will get attention. I cant remember their new catch phrase... But I do remember the old one, "Have you driven a Ford? Lately?"
The biggest thing that Ford can improve is marketing. Like I said before they need cooler comercials that will get attention. I cant remember their new catch phrase... But I do remember the old one, "Have you driven a Ford? Lately?"
8/4/05, 10:39 AM
#84
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: September 28, 2004
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stanger,
The Ridgeline isn't important (to me), because it was a Japanese maker trying to break into a totally new segment (that they were not known for), with radically different styling, they did it at a high price point, and so on. Honda failed miserably with that product -- but it has VERY little to do with the Mustangs failures.
The Mustang was a car that sold a couple hundred thousand units a year (on intro) when it had a mediocre platform, low-style and lots of competition. They came out with the revamped one, without competition and a much better platform and much better style. The only big question was retro style -- but those tended to sell well early on, and they knew they were getting very positive hits on the website and in polls. So it's only very vaguely related in that they were both cars -- and even there, one was a truck. And no one is saying that Ridgeline wasn't a flop -- but that doesn't mean Ford didn't screw up the other way. The facts are, they made half as much they should have in the first year.
In the end. We disagree.
I see a few billion a year lost as significant. You guys seem to think people will wait. I agree that 20% of your market will. The other 80% will buy cars that are available NOW and be a lost opportunity for 3-5 years, until they replace, if you keep up the mistique/hype long enough for when they want another car.
You think that the competition has to look out because they lost 200K sales. I see that Ford doesn't have as much momentum as they should, and isn't filling a lot of the gaps that people want filled, so they're giving away another 100K+ in sales. The difference is the competition is coming -- but is Ford going to be ready? So far, I haven't seen that they got it. But we'll see.
The Ridgeline isn't important (to me), because it was a Japanese maker trying to break into a totally new segment (that they were not known for), with radically different styling, they did it at a high price point, and so on. Honda failed miserably with that product -- but it has VERY little to do with the Mustangs failures.
The Mustang was a car that sold a couple hundred thousand units a year (on intro) when it had a mediocre platform, low-style and lots of competition. They came out with the revamped one, without competition and a much better platform and much better style. The only big question was retro style -- but those tended to sell well early on, and they knew they were getting very positive hits on the website and in polls. So it's only very vaguely related in that they were both cars -- and even there, one was a truck. And no one is saying that Ridgeline wasn't a flop -- but that doesn't mean Ford didn't screw up the other way. The facts are, they made half as much they should have in the first year.
In the end. We disagree.
I see a few billion a year lost as significant. You guys seem to think people will wait. I agree that 20% of your market will. The other 80% will buy cars that are available NOW and be a lost opportunity for 3-5 years, until they replace, if you keep up the mistique/hype long enough for when they want another car.
You think that the competition has to look out because they lost 200K sales. I see that Ford doesn't have as much momentum as they should, and isn't filling a lot of the gaps that people want filled, so they're giving away another 100K+ in sales. The difference is the competition is coming -- but is Ford going to be ready? So far, I haven't seen that they got it. But we'll see.
8/4/05, 10:40 AM
#85
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: September 28, 2004
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Speedvision,
For the 20th time, please listen/read. I get what the Mustang does well. Can you get what they do not? I'm not talking about the hit part of that -- I get that. There are 40,000 posts singing it's praises on this board. Having a clue or balance means that you can see BOTH sides of an issue; but be a blind cheerleader that can only see the positive. Here's a partial iist that you ignore:
Car with very sparse interior and less interior options than the more successful competition
Heavy car, that doesn't handle THAT good -- but has good straight line performance for $25K+
40 years of brand recognition -- with at least 20 of those somewhat embarrassing -- slow refresh rates, old technology, many of them underpowered, and so on. Ford has a history of neglecting Mustangs, and implementing them poorly.
Major options offered by competition missing -- sunroof, cold weather package, IRS, etc.
Braking and handling less than many competitors -- arguably price compensates.
Interior room compared to competition? Depends on who. I found the back seats hard to get into and crammed, and visibility low compared to my M3. The small trunk opening (instead of more versatile hatch) wasn't a step forward either. But it is certainly a lot better than a Vette or 350Z. But the EVO's and WRX are much more practical (space). I wouldn't be touting space as one of the reasons to buy the car. It's a 2+2.
Styling, I agree... but less factory trim options than most of the competition.
Coupe, convertible -- yes. Sedan. Upgraded models -- no.
What other features? There are lots. I've been to other car dealers that had 5+ wheel choices. Some have 3 or 4 motors. Most have sunroofs. Many have sedans, hatch or wagon versions. I've seen dozens of interior choices that you can't get, Navigation systems, Cold Weather packages, Sport packages, Premium Packages, etc. If you don't get it, you don't get it. If you'd like to get it, start visiting other dealers and see what's out there. Ford is doing low-end and sparse, pretty well. (I'm not bashing that). They're missing on making people feel that their car is different from everyone elses, because they chose so much stuff.
For the 20th time, please listen/read. I get what the Mustang does well. Can you get what they do not? I'm not talking about the hit part of that -- I get that. There are 40,000 posts singing it's praises on this board. Having a clue or balance means that you can see BOTH sides of an issue; but be a blind cheerleader that can only see the positive. Here's a partial iist that you ignore:
Car with very sparse interior and less interior options than the more successful competition
Heavy car, that doesn't handle THAT good -- but has good straight line performance for $25K+
40 years of brand recognition -- with at least 20 of those somewhat embarrassing -- slow refresh rates, old technology, many of them underpowered, and so on. Ford has a history of neglecting Mustangs, and implementing them poorly.
Major options offered by competition missing -- sunroof, cold weather package, IRS, etc.
Braking and handling less than many competitors -- arguably price compensates.
Interior room compared to competition? Depends on who. I found the back seats hard to get into and crammed, and visibility low compared to my M3. The small trunk opening (instead of more versatile hatch) wasn't a step forward either. But it is certainly a lot better than a Vette or 350Z. But the EVO's and WRX are much more practical (space). I wouldn't be touting space as one of the reasons to buy the car. It's a 2+2.
Styling, I agree... but less factory trim options than most of the competition.
Coupe, convertible -- yes. Sedan. Upgraded models -- no.
What other features? There are lots. I've been to other car dealers that had 5+ wheel choices. Some have 3 or 4 motors. Most have sunroofs. Many have sedans, hatch or wagon versions. I've seen dozens of interior choices that you can't get, Navigation systems, Cold Weather packages, Sport packages, Premium Packages, etc. If you don't get it, you don't get it. If you'd like to get it, start visiting other dealers and see what's out there. Ford is doing low-end and sparse, pretty well. (I'm not bashing that). They're missing on making people feel that their car is different from everyone elses, because they chose so much stuff.
8/4/05, 11:52 AM
#86
Cobra R Member
Join Date: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1,664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as the IRS issue, we've beaten that do a dead horse, the SRA in the new mustang performas just as well as most IRS systems, but saves cost and lots of weight.
Cant exactly compare getting into a mustang v6 and an M3, thats over twice the cost. again, evo and WRX (sti) are another 10-15k.
the braking and handling issues we all know are heavily tire limited, but no, its not going to be anywhere near a mini cooper s, because of the weight advantage.
Yes its a heavier car, but its a much larger car, the mini could fit in the mustangs trunk.
I still dont get this post, why there are 5 pages on such a topic, these cars arent even in the same class, so why are we comparing them. If you want a mini, get a mini, if you want a mustang, get a mustang, trying to compare the 2 is odd.
now lets go on the negative of a mini.
My friend ysel has a 2003 mini cooper. She has replaced the transmission once under warranty, and it is now having more problems going into 1st and 4th.
Her interior rattles, things feel "loose" she said.
You always have to take the RPM high in each gear to accelerate, because of the lack of power, as where in the mustang (even the v6) im fine with 2500rpm shifts.
No matter what you do, you are going to find bad in each car, and good in each car.
My opinion
If you want people lookin at your car because it looks GOOD, get a mustang.
If you want people lookin at your car because it looks FUNNY, get a mini.
Cant exactly compare getting into a mustang v6 and an M3, thats over twice the cost. again, evo and WRX (sti) are another 10-15k.
the braking and handling issues we all know are heavily tire limited, but no, its not going to be anywhere near a mini cooper s, because of the weight advantage.
Yes its a heavier car, but its a much larger car, the mini could fit in the mustangs trunk.
I still dont get this post, why there are 5 pages on such a topic, these cars arent even in the same class, so why are we comparing them. If you want a mini, get a mini, if you want a mustang, get a mustang, trying to compare the 2 is odd.
now lets go on the negative of a mini.
My friend ysel has a 2003 mini cooper. She has replaced the transmission once under warranty, and it is now having more problems going into 1st and 4th.
Her interior rattles, things feel "loose" she said.
You always have to take the RPM high in each gear to accelerate, because of the lack of power, as where in the mustang (even the v6) im fine with 2500rpm shifts.
No matter what you do, you are going to find bad in each car, and good in each car.
My opinion
If you want people lookin at your car because it looks GOOD, get a mustang.
If you want people lookin at your car because it looks FUNNY, get a mini.
8/4/05, 12:06 PM
#87
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: September 28, 2004
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The reason this has gone on for 5 pages is because some people appear too stupid to read and get what anyone else is saying. Then they argue something else. I am astounded you guys keep making it that difficult.
1) I wasn't comparing cars -- it's the mustang fanatics that keep doing that. I was comparing BUYING EXPERIENCES and OPTIONS! In that, you can get more options with other cars. Then people keep saying "like what", as if the options that the mustang comes with are perfect and there's nothing else in the world anyone could want. So I clarify features you could get in other cars, and someone else pops up with, "this isn't a BMW". No poo! No one said it was.
2) The point is how to spread a car out so it attracts more buyers, and how to make people feel like they are customizing their car so it is unique. But I forgot, on the 7th day Ford said let there be light, and there was light, and it was good. And in the light was born Mustang. Flawless and the perfect car. There would be no possible need for any other.... [sigh]
3) The point was that Ford's business isn't quite tuned; and here's some ways to broaden the appeal, leverage a platform/better, make more off the brand. But again, I forgot, Ford is perfect, they don't make mistakes. And if they did, it would be understandable because they're Ford, and it's the whole industry that's down -- even if Ford is down more than almost anyone else in the industry. [sigh, again]
Einstein said, the two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. I'm beginning to believe it is the other way around!
1) I wasn't comparing cars -- it's the mustang fanatics that keep doing that. I was comparing BUYING EXPERIENCES and OPTIONS! In that, you can get more options with other cars. Then people keep saying "like what", as if the options that the mustang comes with are perfect and there's nothing else in the world anyone could want. So I clarify features you could get in other cars, and someone else pops up with, "this isn't a BMW". No poo! No one said it was.
2) The point is how to spread a car out so it attracts more buyers, and how to make people feel like they are customizing their car so it is unique. But I forgot, on the 7th day Ford said let there be light, and there was light, and it was good. And in the light was born Mustang. Flawless and the perfect car. There would be no possible need for any other.... [sigh]
3) The point was that Ford's business isn't quite tuned; and here's some ways to broaden the appeal, leverage a platform/better, make more off the brand. But again, I forgot, Ford is perfect, they don't make mistakes. And if they did, it would be understandable because they're Ford, and it's the whole industry that's down -- even if Ford is down more than almost anyone else in the industry. [sigh, again]
Einstein said, the two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. I'm beginning to believe it is the other way around!
8/4/05, 01:10 PM
#88
Bullitt Member
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the quagmire is getting thick, so before I bog down too much, I'm gonna live and let die. We'll agree to disagree (I'd agree it's a fair way to end an excellent debate). I'll stick my neck out one last time before I give you a nanna and let it slide off into the ether.
The ridgeline is important because it sumarizes an underlying point I have been making all along. It's like the big score because it is a real world example of all that I have said all along.
Honda Decided to compete in a well established and already crowded market, and it knew that getting in. To compete, The ridgeline has more available options and standard features than its competition - making it quite different from everything else out there (kind of what you're hoping Ford would do with the Mustang - even more drastically than they have). Unfortunately, The cost of the car is higher as a result.
The Ridgeline is failing (as you know), and the reason it is failing is what is important: because Honda stepped into an arena ready to compete with people offering a better bottom line and adequate standard features. They assumed people would pay the premium price quite happily to get the extra features. In the end they didn't. What people wanted was quality and price. Features are nice, but they don't sell cars... PRICE sells cars - moves inventories (at least with middle America which, incidently is the largest portion of the buying public).
Americans sell much MUCH more because of low LOW price
The bottom line price is what affects your sales. If you reach too far up market, people turn their backs because they can't afford it. Had Ford included more options (as you want to see), they would have most definately shot themselves in the foot because the car would have been another 5k too expensive. I know several people that have purchased the new Mustang in its base base form. If it was any more expensive than it already is, they wouldn't be able to afford it. Had Ford made the car another 5k more expensive... they would have lost far more merket share than the folks willing to pay the extra $$$ could make up for.
The only place I see that they could immediatly improve is with supply. As Tony Alonso said though... that's playing with a loaded gun. You don't want to have bloated dealer inventories and a car that isn't selling. They might have guessed that it would sell more, and so there you could fault Ford, but none the less, it doesn't justify usage of the word "failure". Failure would be indicative of what Honda has done with the Ridgeline, NOT what is happening with the Mustang. It may fail to attract you specifically as a buyer, but to average joe on the streets it nails a sweet spot.
In time, supply will catch demand. in the meanwhile, people are begging for the car, and the line keeps getting longer not shorter. The folks that want this car have nowhere else to go. What competing car can steal market share from the Mustang? Folks will have to look at other cars in the 20-30k price range and find something offering a similar package to the Mustang. No one is doing it for the price.
So the folks that want a Mustang will either wait in line, or will likely get something else (or keep what they have) until supply catches up and they can afford it. Unlike other businesses... in the Automotive world... if you have something hot and not enough to go around, people will do anything they can to get in. If they have to wait... they will wait. Perhaps that's a bit presumptuous, but that case has been proven correct in the Automotive world time and time again with stories like the Miata.
Well, it's been a blast. Unless someone calls me out for some more, I'm going to let this one spiral off. Thanks for the great debate. I hope everyone else enjoyed it as much as I did.
Signing off... FOR NOW
The ridgeline is important because it sumarizes an underlying point I have been making all along. It's like the big score because it is a real world example of all that I have said all along.
Honda Decided to compete in a well established and already crowded market, and it knew that getting in. To compete, The ridgeline has more available options and standard features than its competition - making it quite different from everything else out there (kind of what you're hoping Ford would do with the Mustang - even more drastically than they have). Unfortunately, The cost of the car is higher as a result.
The Ridgeline is failing (as you know), and the reason it is failing is what is important: because Honda stepped into an arena ready to compete with people offering a better bottom line and adequate standard features. They assumed people would pay the premium price quite happily to get the extra features. In the end they didn't. What people wanted was quality and price. Features are nice, but they don't sell cars... PRICE sells cars - moves inventories (at least with middle America which, incidently is the largest portion of the buying public).
Americans sell much MUCH more because of low LOW price
The bottom line price is what affects your sales. If you reach too far up market, people turn their backs because they can't afford it. Had Ford included more options (as you want to see), they would have most definately shot themselves in the foot because the car would have been another 5k too expensive. I know several people that have purchased the new Mustang in its base base form. If it was any more expensive than it already is, they wouldn't be able to afford it. Had Ford made the car another 5k more expensive... they would have lost far more merket share than the folks willing to pay the extra $$$ could make up for.
The only place I see that they could immediatly improve is with supply. As Tony Alonso said though... that's playing with a loaded gun. You don't want to have bloated dealer inventories and a car that isn't selling. They might have guessed that it would sell more, and so there you could fault Ford, but none the less, it doesn't justify usage of the word "failure". Failure would be indicative of what Honda has done with the Ridgeline, NOT what is happening with the Mustang. It may fail to attract you specifically as a buyer, but to average joe on the streets it nails a sweet spot.
In time, supply will catch demand. in the meanwhile, people are begging for the car, and the line keeps getting longer not shorter. The folks that want this car have nowhere else to go. What competing car can steal market share from the Mustang? Folks will have to look at other cars in the 20-30k price range and find something offering a similar package to the Mustang. No one is doing it for the price.
So the folks that want a Mustang will either wait in line, or will likely get something else (or keep what they have) until supply catches up and they can afford it. Unlike other businesses... in the Automotive world... if you have something hot and not enough to go around, people will do anything they can to get in. If they have to wait... they will wait. Perhaps that's a bit presumptuous, but that case has been proven correct in the Automotive world time and time again with stories like the Miata.
Well, it's been a blast. Unless someone calls me out for some more, I'm going to let this one spiral off. Thanks for the great debate. I hope everyone else enjoyed it as much as I did.
Signing off... FOR NOW
8/4/05, 01:29 PM
#89
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: September 28, 2004
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stanger, just so you know -- I wasn't complaining about you. And I hear what you're saying about the Ridgeline. I just don't agree why they failed. Yes, it was too expensive, but that was before options, and they didn't have a reputation in the segment and much more. I also agree that over-inventory is dangerous -- but so is underfullfilment. I'm complaining about the latter; Ford/Mustang was a company going into THEIR segment, without competition, and not being able to forecast that demand would be as large as it was 10 years ago? That's a pretty big miss. But they could be trying to force under-fullfilment for hype reasons or to keep from the big surge others had in Retro, etc. (even out the surge curve). I hate that kind of bad-business thinking, it's marketing stuff like that, or the concept of crippling one version to drive people up the line, that screws up American companies. So while I get it, I don't have to agree with it.
I do agree that low entry price helps some American car companies. It also leads to the "American cars are cheap" perception, in both senses of the word. (two edged sword). Having $5K of options shouldn't have changed the base price, only the selling price for those that want those options, and it would have broadened the appeal. I want people to get into a Mustang and think "Euro/Japanese beater" and not just be thinking of the 1/4 mile. As you said, good debate (you and I). It's all been said. We'll see what Ford does this year, and next. I'm hoping they offer many more options, SE's, can ramp up production, and sell even more cars.
I do agree that low entry price helps some American car companies. It also leads to the "American cars are cheap" perception, in both senses of the word. (two edged sword). Having $5K of options shouldn't have changed the base price, only the selling price for those that want those options, and it would have broadened the appeal. I want people to get into a Mustang and think "Euro/Japanese beater" and not just be thinking of the 1/4 mile. As you said, good debate (you and I). It's all been said. We'll see what Ford does this year, and next. I'm hoping they offer many more options, SE's, can ramp up production, and sell even more cars.
8/4/05, 07:52 PM
#91
Stanger X, I think the success of the recent employee discounts for everyone prove the point that you are trying to make about price being more important than options. The big three moved a tremendous number of vehicles off of lots while they had these promotions going on. I'm not saying they should drastically lower prices, but I think it shows how important price is to american buyers.
8/5/05, 01:20 AM
#92
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: September 28, 2004
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The employee pricing program has created huge questions on wall street. Many think all that they managed to do was bring sales forward; take people who were already going to buy the brand (or at least American), and get them to buy sooner. Which means they're going to have serious problems moving iron in the near future. I think that's too simple. But I was never arguing that price didn't matter -- just that features and OPTIONS matter too.
8/5/05, 10:38 AM
#93
Bullitt Member
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a little interresting article. I'm biting my tongue 
. Not a peep from me. Enjoy the read. It's interresting to say the least:
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102918
. Not a peep from me. Enjoy the read. It's interresting to say the least:http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102918
8/5/05, 11:43 AM
#94
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: September 28, 2004
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yup. I subscribe and had read it. (Found it apropos). And it supported my point that GM realizes that they slipped in not having competition in the segment, and something is coming. The question is how fast. When companies get quiet, it is usually for a reason. (Like something is coming soon).
8/5/05, 06:00 PM
#95
I'm people, and I like.
Join Date: March 13, 2004
Location: PDX
Posts: 9,239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thought you guys might like to see this:
It's an article of the Mini S going against the Mustang GT and the 350Z!
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?sh...=0&#entry465010
Guess which the writer liked best?
It's an article of the Mini S going against the Mustang GT and the 350Z!
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?sh...=0&#entry465010
Guess which the writer liked best?
8/5/05, 10:24 PM
#96
Shelby GT500 Member
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting, imo the S is more of a discussion with the v6, now with the GT. forget about it
I'm surprised the he prefered the S over a GT and a Z!!
I'm surprised the he prefered the S over a GT and a Z!!
8/6/05, 03:48 AM
#97
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: September 28, 2004
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dunno. They're totally different cars. Mustang drivers see the world, 1/4 mile at a time. But put a GT and a CooperS on the typical autocross course (tight turns, little chance to build speed), and I suspect the little cooper will regularly clean the Mustang's clock every time. So it is a perception thing, how do you see fast/sporty/fun? But again, my point wasn't to compare the S to the Mustang, but to look at which was more fun to buy. The mini just creams the mustang in experience because of all the options/customization you get from the factory/dealer.
8/6/05, 03:48 AM
#98
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: September 28, 2004
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dunno. They're totally different cars. Mustang drivers see the world, 1/4 mile at a time. But put a GT and a CooperS on the typical autocross course (tight turns, little chance to build speed), and I suspect the little cooper will regularly clean the Mustang's clock every time. So it is a perception thing, how do you see fast/sporty/fun? But again, my point wasn't to compare the S to the Mustang, but to look at which was more fun to buy. The mini just creams the mustang in experience because of all the options/customization you get from the factory/dealer.
7/4/07, 08:06 PM
#100
Cobra Member
Join Date: April 7, 2004
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an owner of a beastly (k, fine, stock 
) 2005 Mustang GT, I can say confidently that I LOVE the mini. It's a great car, especially for the price. Drive one in some corners before criticising it!
EDIT: I was using the search function and had no idea this is a two year old thread. I completely apologize fore resurrecting this LONG dead thread...
) 2005 Mustang GT, I can say confidently that I LOVE the mini. It's a great car, especially for the price. Drive one in some corners before criticising it!EDIT: I was using the search function and had no idea this is a two year old thread. I completely apologize fore resurrecting this LONG dead thread...