So going hard from 1st to 2nd hard redline and speed shifting( keeping accel pedal down but still using clutch) I about 75% of the time will get the gear grinding noise. Even with the clutch pedal all the way down. Does not do it in any other gear change. Does not do it at regular driving shifts. Am I possibly letting out the clutch too soon just trying to be too quick? Or have I busted the synchro some how? Or is my clutch getting to be toast?
Thanks

 

The 3650 (?) only has one clutch/blocker ring in each synchro. There's just not enough time for the face teeth on the slider to match speeds with the next gear, so they clash as you bring them together.

You've probably toasted the clutch in the 1-2 slider, and you're working on destroying the teeth now. I wish I had the pictures of what my T5 guts look like from 5 years of merely shifting quickly, nevermind powershifting. The good news is fresh blockers really helped.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eighty6gt @ February 7, 2006, 9:56 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The 3650 (?) only has one clutch/blocker ring in each synchro. There's just not enough time for the face teeth on the slider to match speeds with the next gear, so they clash as you bring them together.

You've probably toasted the clutch in the 1-2 slider, and you're working on destroying the teeth now. I wish I had the pictures of what my T5 guts look like from 5 years of merely shifting quickly, nevermind powershifting. The good news is fresh blockers really helped.
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Do you think that is an easy thing to fix? Not for me to do but for the Ford shop to do?

 

Yes, but it involves removing and tearing down the transmission to replace the parts. It isn't going to be cheap, since Ford isn't likely going to warranty the repairs once they find the damage. I'd contact a dealer you aren't going to use for the job just to get a ballpark estimate of the labor & parts.

 

The 1-2 shift gives the trans the most work to do matching speeds to avoid clash. Keep in mind you are shifting from a 3.38:1 1st gear to a 2:1 second (I think these are close to the actual ratios) so there is a lot of clutch disc braking having to be done AND you have a 11" disc with lots of inertia too. The drops are a lot less on the 2-3 shift and the 3-4 shift so it's easier for the synchromesh hardware to do the job on those shifts with out clash.

Why are you power shifting?

 

LOL I have the same darn problem. Its not you it is the transmission. I just dont have the time to rip out the tranny and get an HD rebuild kit for it. I gring 90% of the time trying to power shift. but I dont anymore with 1-2 just from 2-3 and 3-4 and 4-5. Oh well something to live with with this new transmission. Everyone is trying to find was to improve the 1-2 shift on this 3650.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(300HPGT @ February 8, 2006, 11:19 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
LOL I have the same darn problem. Its not you it is the transmission. I just dont have the time to rip out the tranny and get an HD rebuild kit for it. I gring 90% of the time trying to power shift. but I dont anymore with 1-2 just from 2-3 and 3-4 and 4-5. Oh well something to live with with this new transmission. Everyone is trying to find was to improve the 1-2 shift on this 3650.
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Um, it's NOT the tranny. The 3650 in these cars is not designed to be powershifted. You are ABUSING your transmission if you powershift it, pure and simple. Not only that, but you are probably not gaining much time by doing it.

Blaming the 3650 for this issue is like blaming the motor when you rev it to 7000rpm and something breaks.

Enjoy the repair bills.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(speco2005 @ February 6, 2006, 11:00 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
So going hard from 1st to 2nd hard redline and speed shifting( keeping accel pedal down but still using clutch) I about 75% of the time will get the gear grinding noise. Or is my clutch getting to be toast?
Thanks
[/b][/quote]


There is your problem! Short answer, yes!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(S197 GT @ February 8, 2006, 8:05 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
There is your problem! Short answer, yes!
[/b][/quote]


I thought as much, I do not do this all the time just at times I have a lone red light to practice from. And I am trying not to take it out to the redline all the time just trying to find the right touch for launch, oddly enough I have never had it happen to me at the track. I have already put a new clutch on the wish list. And it seems to do better anyway just going out to about 4500 and making the shift.

 

i have a question: since i have gotten my car, going from 1-2 or 3-2 has been notchy since i got the car. sometimes its fine, sometimes its just not as smooth as shifting to other gears. i do not powershift or speedshift or any of that crap, i do not want to mess up my car. i am talking about driving normally in traffic. is this just a characteristic of this transmission? the other thing i have noticed, is like once or 2 times while i was driving in the snow, it was a little hard to get it to go into 2nd, i was trying to start in 2nd because there was so much snow. i have a service appt on the 23rd, and was going to have them check it out. but not if this is just the way the trans are.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrMorden @ February 8, 2006, 10:33 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Um, it's NOT the tranny. The 3650 in these cars is not designed to be powershifted. You are ABUSING your transmission if you powershift it, pure and simple. Not only that, but you are probably not gaining much time by doing it.

Blaming the 3650 for this issue is like blaming the motor when you rev it to 7000rpm and something breaks.

Enjoy the repair bills.
[/b][/quote]


my Roush manual warns about powershifting in these T3650s ---- this short throw will - "slide" into the gears ------ although when one is out hot rodding, it is easy to get a bit rough with it --- there should never be a "grinding" --- evidently the syncros are not right for that chosen gear and need to select the alternate gear -----

launching in 1st at 2500 rpm is quick and smooth and immediately after engaging, going to 2nd and the transition is positive and quick ----

i'm with RPM on the 1 to 2 shift thing --- the gear ratios are wide between the two and takes a bit longer for the syncros to pick up and adjust ---- so, she might feel a bit notchy..... if ur just cruising then shifting is well at around 3000rpm or even a bit less ---- and that is taking easy time shifting ---- of course, hard acceleration will require a higher rpm ....

starting in 2nd is not a good idea - my Dealer warned me to never do that --- too high a gear for 2nd --- and depending on how fast ur going, 1st can be so short that it is not much extra time to get up to speed --- i have had no problems getting past traffic after launching in 1st ---- and even when i'm lazy about it ----[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]

 

the only time i was starting in 2nd gear was when there was about 4" of snow on the ground. the reason i did this was for better traction, its not like you pop the clutch when your driving in the snow. is this still bad for the car?!!?!? what is the point of a manual if u can start in 2nd in the snow to avoid slipping?!?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(official_style @ February 9, 2006, 10:16 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
the only time i was starting in 2nd gear was when there was about 4" of snow on the ground. the reason i did this was for better traction, its not like you pop the clutch when your driving in the snow. is this still bad for the car?!!?!? what is the point of a manual if u can start in 2nd in the snow to avoid slipping?!?
[/b][/quote]

You guys won't kill the clutch starting in 2nd, especially if there's little traction.

 

and what about it being hard to get it to go directly into 2nd a couple times while i was trying to do this? is this normal?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(official_style @ February 9, 2006, 11:17 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
and what about it being hard to get it to go directly into 2nd a couple times while i was trying to do this? is this normal?
[/b][/quote]

it is expected to be harder to go to second as the fly is spinning faster in this instance than it would in the first gear, and more force on the clutch plate when it goes against the fly --- so, engaging the clutch at a slower rate, rather than "popping it", will make it easier for them to come together with less friction and wear on the clutch plate.....

 

i fried mine too, ford fixed it under warranty.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faber @ February 9, 2006, 4:00 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
i fried mine too, ford fixed it under warranty.
[/b][/quote]


What did you fry exactly????

I am not looking for warranty work I would pay to have it fixed.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(speco2005 @ February 9, 2006, 4:40 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
What did you fry exactly????

I am not looking for warranty work I would pay to have it fixed.
[/b][/quote]


think he means he burned up the clutch plate -- kinda like a brake pad as when the coating wears off, the clutch feels like it is "slipping" and harder to engage ---- this is usually due to extensive "riding" the clutch though .....

i would be curious to know Faber's clutching habits prior to the damage......