max2000jp

I don't work for a tuner company, just a regular Mustang owner like everyone else. I do beleive Doug's estimate to be in the ballpark. Most bolt-on GTs like mine dyno near 300rwhp. My car is on a canned tune, remember that. If the cam gives, 30-35 rwhp. That puts me at 335rwhp. I am guessing what a port and polish gives, but I saw a dyno post from Livernois Motorsports that stated 50rwhp. I am not sure how accurate that is though. An extra 40+ rwhp could be possible with a port and polish, but no one knows. I guess we will have to wait.

As for that thread, I read it and can't post on the corral for some reason yet. That FourCam330 guy is just as bad as Blow By. The immaturity in that thread is very high.

Vegasjay

I was going to go with BBR's cams...Something told me not to, I didn't trust them...I'm glad I went with my gut on this one. I am waiting on Comp Cams, I trust them and they alway's put out the best cam's.

Cleveland

Comp, Crane, Cower... Just see who comes up with the profiles that are best for what you wish to do with the motor. Be it a turbo, SC, nitrous or N/A street/strip.

As for that FourCam guy, I wouldnt call him immature.... If someone advertised something that went against everything you've ever known and then made some pretty retarded comments to deter the rants I would expect that person to be pretty pissed and it would show in the posts.

He knows his stuff and Im glad hes looking out for all of us and handing BBR their A.S.S. And remember, FourCam isnt representing anybody but himself and he isnt in the business.

-Dan

eighty6gt

Fourcam also claimed that all ford engines are broken in on dyno's at Ford. Poor guy.

I wonder if the tuning community, or more specifically SCT and their dealers are going to have to start collaborating in order to fill the need for all of the future tunes.

Ex:
JLT intake, comp cams, offroad h
JLT intake, crower cams, stock exhaust
K&N, comp, cat back
etc.

No single tuner is going to be able to have canned tunes available for these combinations, and not everyone has a local tuner that they'd trust w/their car.

KWMJ-KTP

I'm not too familiar with Comp Cams, but had a couple quick questions. What is the typical cost for a mod like this, and how difficult is something like this to do?

I am just finishing up on my mods now, but maybe in a year or 2 once I am past the 36,000 mile warranty, I may look into more things to add, and if 30+ HP is obtainable, it looks like something that would be worth doing.

I don't really ever race or go to the track, I just enjoy having a powerful car, so is this something that is more geared towards racing and track use, or is it something that would be practical for everyday street driving. I hate to sound like a newbie, but on this subject, I am.

eighty6gt

I'd expect cams to cost close to 1000 bucks.

The only thing I'd be worried about with the swap was keeping the timing in order (shouldn't be too hard, just be careful) and getting the VCT stuff matched up to the new cams. I think there's some kind of pins that crush or something when the VCT hardware is attached at the factory, these would need to be replaced, unless I don't remember correctly.

Getting at the cams is easy. To change the springs you'd probably just put some rope into the cyl and bring it up to tdc to hold the valves up, or use compressed air and then change them out.

Were I to do this mod I would probably ditch the IMRC's at the same time. My car is getting 4.30's so low end torque will not be at a premium.

I bet the you would want to move the rev limit up as well, so you'd be entering unexplored territory by revving the bottom end up 500 or so extra rpm at every shift. I hope Ford has it done right, but who knows. I know the Cobras had crummy oil pump gears that caused problems.

I'd say if you wanted to keep the stock gears I'd stick w/the stock setup, but if you go to deep gearing, your car would still be very streetable. And much, much faster.

max2000jp

He is definetly immature. He is the "internet tough guy hiding behind a keyboard type". Everyone knows that arguing over the internet is like winning the special olympics FourCam frankly has no experience with 3V 4.6L's, therefore his word is about as credible as dog crap. He hasn't ported/polished 3V heads, nor installed cams. Again, he is just another internet tough guy. I personally want to see the results, but will wait until an independent dyno is posted. I am not stupid enough to buy something without credible proof.

BRENSPEED

I didn't want to say it because I am not a big fan of "claims" by manufacturers but the Comp engineer told me 45 rwhp which is like you said very far fetched territory. I would settle for 25 rwhp when tuned. That would be a lot and a killer gain. Anything under 20 rwhp makes the consumer really look at the price of the cams/install hard. In my opinion after looking at hundereds of 05/06 dyno graphs there is a decent restriction up top. Not sure if it is the cams or not. A ford engineer said it was the heads, others say the cams. Honestly I have not spent a lot of time yet looking into it until more parts are available.

169stang

Just to inform you...Fourcam has a business outside of this industry. He also writes tech articles for a number of mags..including 5.0/MMFF. He is very knowledgeable. He doesn't turn the wrenches himself and has been burned before. He has pretty much taken a personal stance to help prevent people like you from getting burned from companies like BBR. That whole thread is about BBR posting numbers and Fourcam challenging those numbers. He posted a lot of facts, mainly related to 2v/4v and showing how he doesn't think the #'s are possible that BBR posted. He offered to pay for everthing IF the numbers proved true. He just wanted objective proof disclosed.
He is quick to rip into someone if they say something goofy. I find it pretty entertaining though. I don't believe you have to actually tear into an 4.6L 3V to have all the knowledge in the world. There are some guys/gals that can look at spec #'s and be able to read and translate it.
He may be harsh, but has a lot of knowledge

max2000jp

He has ZERO(that I read about) experience with 4.6 3Vs,; his knowledge doesn't apply to us. All engines don't respond to mods exactly the same. Therefore, his experience with 2V/4V engines does little to help us. I have seen too many times guys like this making claims what an engine can't do and in the long run be proven wrong. LS1s and my friend's turbocharged VQ3.0 come to mind as easy example..

All in all, he is just an internet tough guy.

Sonic Brew

It looks like he is stating what he knows from his previous knowledge which is the 2v/4v to the 3v. Granted they are not the same, but the similarites are enought so that he can give ballpark figures.

max2000jp

Different heads, VVT, and a new ECU. He doesn't take into account that. Anyone can throw out ballpark figures. He is doing the exact same thing BBR is doing, not adding any proof to the equation.

On topic again...I am looking forward to cams for the 3V. Should really be a nice mod to accompany what I alread have done.

stang9325

Forgive me if I can't remember exactly what fourcam said, but it went something like: how can a PP 3V head outflow a PP 4V head? If I recall it was also stated that the valves in the 4V are also bigger (and obviously have 1 more) than in the 3V. Seems like a pretty logical argument to me. He may not have the specific proof but that is what he is trying to get with all of this. If BBR would just step up to the plate they could easily put this to rest. Why? Because if those numbers are correct they would want to prove it to sell more of their product. Ducking this challenge, especially since it would be free to them minus their time(assuming their numbers are correct), tells me that their numbers aren't legit. Doesn't seem like any other logical reason for them to not do this.

My .02

max2000jp

I have no problem with someone asking for answers, but go about it in a classy way. Heads are one part of an engine. He doesn't know how other variables will react in 3V engines. The problem I have is that FourCam acts like a and is no better than BBR. Patriot Performance stated in an email to me that they are working on 3V heads and Crane/Comp will have cams out shortly. Everyone just be patient and this will get sorted out.

AnotherMustangMan

I have zero experience with chopping heads off babies, but I could make a pretty good argument that it would be sorta bloody.



That example is probably a bit morbid, or at least odd, but the concept holds true.

stang9325

And what concept is that? I can't quite find the correlation between the two.

AnotherMustangMan

The ability to apply knowledge of something in order to ascertain an understanding of it--if not obtained by direct experience.

It was a response to this:

"He has ZERO(that I read about) experience with 4.6 3Vs,; his knowledge doesn't apply to us"

stang9325

Ok, makes more sense now. I wasn't sure what your comment was directed at. BTW, you are exactly right. I don't see how max2000jp doesn't see that. Like you said, even if it isn't the exact same thing, a connection can be made between the two and GENERAL assumptions can be made. Computer this and VCT that has nothing to do with the physics of how well a head can flow given X.

max2000jp

General assumptions aren't proof or enough information to discredit gains. I really don't think you understand what VCT does and how the computer is much more sensitive in the S197. People were using your logic in regards to supercharging 3V engines when the 05's came out. Do a search and you will get a good laugh. Again, FourCam has no experience with 3V Engines.

MTAS

I can't wait for cam info as well